The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[Irie]

With the increase in DVC rooms/owners, the cost per point to rent points should go down. More people trying to rent should be good for the person renting points. Owners that rent out their points wont recoup as much money.

Also, as more people rent occupancy rates for regular rooms will diminish, which TDO will use as an excuse to take more rooms out of ciculation.

I guess I will continue to rent points.

 

[wm49rs]

It will be interesting to see the financial statement said for the quarter. I am not sure I agree with you that DVC'S are bad and short sited. Remember DVC are right to use and not permanent ownership. In 2042 lots revert back to Disney ownership to renovate and resale. In the meantime the profits from the sales can be invested into the parks resulting in more DVC sales and park attendance. As for mid priced resorts Disney can continue to sell those rooms which do okay and then leave the values for off site. As an incentive DVC can negotiate with the parks for extra fast passes thus keeping their prices high. This does not have to be a negative. Some may see it that way but it can be looked at as a positive addition. Time will tell who is right but I like the DVC model.

DVC profits go back into DVC, not the parks....

 

[jt04]

As long as they don't turn Fort Wilderness camp sites into timeshares I'm good.

 

[WDW1974]

There's one key question here. Who in their right mind would shell out $16-$20k for DVC right now?

You said ''right mind'' ... that goes off into addictions and the like. There's a woman who I have followed for years online (she has quite a following and somehow a state job that allows her what seems like four months a year of vacation time) and I swear she owns enough DVC points that she likely could buy a home not too far from where George and Andy live. Yes, you can be addicted to DVC. ANd, no, there is no truly healthy addiction.

 

[WDW1974]

Tikiman has said that the ones at the poly will be around or above 1000 per night and will include those small plunge pools.

And no matter what, they will be 100% occupied year round. Count on it.

 

[WDW1974]

I've mentioned that once upon a time (pre- 1990) I would call a deluxe resort (usually Poly or Contemporary) in the morning and ask them what was the best rate they could give me if I checked in that afternoon? If I could get a good rate, I'd pick up my daughter after preschool, and off we'd go. (I had APs)

It's a completely different world. But other than truly ultra-deluxe resorts, I don't know of a chain (and Disney Resorts are that) where you can't go up to the front desk and ask ''Do you have rooms available and what's your best rate for tonight?''

Only Disney ... only Disney ... (I think if I am ever in a coma, I'll likely be uttering these words as @Lee sings showtunes at my bedside!)

 

[rudyjr13]

You said ''right mind'' ... that goes off into addictions and the like. There's a woman who I have followed for years online (she has quite a following and somehow a state job that allows her what seems like four months a year of vacation time) and I swear she owns enough DVC points that she likely could buy a home not too far from where George and Andy live. Yes, you can be addicted to DVC. ANd, no, there is no truly healthy addiction.

Right. Well I guess on the other hand I can rent points from a DVC reseller and save 60%. Now I'll have more inventory to rent from next time.

 

[schuelma]

Right. Well I guess on the other hand I can rent points from a DVC reseller and save 60%. Now I'll have more inventory to rent from next time.

That was my one small thought of consolation reading through the thread.

 

[mgpan]

We did last month because the villas at Floridian look beautiful and we missed staying there. Staying on-site has always been an important part of the experience to us, and now we won't be impacted by the skyrocketing rates of regular deluxe rooms.

That said, I can envision many future trips where we skip the parks entirely or head to Universal.

How high will the maintenance fees climb when there's no or very few non-DVC rooms bringing in revenue for it? The maintenance fees, coupled with the average per stay over the life of the DVC contract is always what's kept me away. Same old argument for/against DVC I know, I just sometimes feel as though the per night rates are inflated mainly to drive folks to DVC just because of the perceived value those high rates create.

 

[Thessair]

I stayed there years ago, when it first opened and was WDW's "value" resort. Our daughter was only 5 or so, and when my husband joined us on the weekend, the room was definitely cramped with 3 of us. I could see how making them a 2 bedroom suite would make them more attractive.

At least at CBR, when we travelled in a group, we could get adjoining rooms with interior doors. I've never been able to get them at another resort. Heck, to be honest, I'm not even sure if any other resorts have them. It was my late stepfather's favorite place to stay down there.

 

[sshindel]

Oh, George. You bring up so much I'd like to discuss, but can't sit here for the night.

First, Disney execs absolutely know what real world prices are and they especially know what the O-Town market commands. A little hint you don't need: it ain't $600 a night for what amounts to a 3-star room in the real world.

As to driving up? Hahhahahahahah.

You think this is still 1984? You think Jack Wagner is on WDW Radio (the real thing, not the Amity Corless deal) telling folks that rooms are available for the night as they drove down the two lanes of World Drive?

You can't walk up to a WDW resort that has 40% of its rooms empty and get a room. They can't/won't book you. They do everything from their call center. Try it sometime it is so laughable. They'll dial the Sand Lake Rd call center that Georgie K staged his resurrection from, get put on hold while listenting to Small World (just like you'd do from home) and if something shows as available at the resort they'll book you in (no discount either unless you're say an APer and an AP rate is in the computer and you ask).

I often wonder if a security guard is even capable of dealing with someone who drives up to the gate of a resort and asks about staying the night.

True Spirited Tale: in 1997 I spent six nights at Coronado Springs on an AP rate with a sibling. We were going to drive home that night but after a long day at EPCOT, neither one of us felt like doing the 3 1/2 trek down the Turnpike (it's not a fun drive!) We went back to CSR and explained the situation ... we had to get two managers (one who wasn't on-site) who somehow reopened our folio and simply added a night (albeit in a different room) at the same $84 rate we had paid for the other nights. It literally took 70 minutes when the resort was a quarter empty and all rooms were in service.

Maybe some of this varies. In November of last year we were staying at the CBR for a couple nights (gift of my folks while I ran the 1/2 marathon with my father). We were moving to an offsite time share that day, so we checked out in the morning and left for the parks.
That evening my youngest child got sick driving out of the parks and when we got to the timeshare, we couldn't get in touch with the family we were sharing the room with, and with a sick kid I decided not to mess with all the crap going on. I drove back to CBR, told the guard I was going to get a room, drove to the front desk, and a CM had me in a new room (at rack rate sure) in less than 5 minutes.
Maybe it's because I didn't care at that moment to try and get a discounted rate. I just wanted a room so I could get the puking kid to Urgent Care and get some Zofran to stop said puking.

 

[GoofGoof]

We've seen anecdotal evidence here that some DVC owners spend less than the average guest that books a package because they don't visit the parks as much, cook in their room instead of eating at expensive Disney restaurants, use their rooms as a base to visit other theme parks... Anyway, besides this being a short-term money grab, are there any incentives planned to get DVC owners to spend money more money? If sales at VGF are slow, why do they think MORE DVC will sell well especially if no incentives are added?

I just don't get the logic...not even gonna talk about the teepees.

VGF is 55% sold in one year. They have a little over 1M points left to sell. At the current pace it will be sold out in less than a year. Poly is more popular so likely to sell just as fast. The price keeps going up with even less incentives to buy in. I don't see any evidence of sales slowing down. VWL has a direct boat to MK so it will sell. That's my take from a sales prospective. I don't personally like this idea. I'd rather see the River Country resort built as DVC and leave WL as is.

I think there could be some truth to the decreased spending, especially for meals. However, the studios don't have full kitchens so the dining habits are probably similar to regular deluxe hotel guests. For the villas, I think a lot of people stock the kitchens with a lot of things like snacks, beverages and breakfast foods. I'm not sure how many people are cooking a turkey dinner on a Tuesday night after a long day in the parks, but I'm sure some do. Most of the lost money probably comes from snacks, breakfast and booze. Disney is losing some money, but I don't think the DVC owners who are posters here (especially in Spirit's threads) represent the average DVC owners. Lots of owners are big time "pixie dusters" who spend plenty of time in the parks and plenty of money.

I know Spirit said he saw the tepees and I usually trust him, but that has to be wrong. Maybe just a bad piece of concept art. I could see something along the lines of a "fishing hut" or maybe a version of the Poly huts, but how does a tepee even work over the water? It's about the worst idea I have heard.

If they are going to do this they should at least pimp out the WL pool. Lazy river, crazy cool slide, the works. Get something positive out of it for resort guests.

 

[WDW1974]

Just one last point on the UNI tidbit that I teased on the first page.

I'll go into depth more (likely over the weekend, but if I disappear for a few days ... please, don't fill this with BS and rants about be promising!) but have talked a lot to some friends who work for UNI and (this may or may not be a surprise ... folks here all have varying degrees of knowledge about the business of parks) and understand this: Disney, at the highest levels, knew exactly (and I do mean exactly) what UNI was building in Potter 2.0 when the shark was still lurking in Amity.

They knew. They were aware. They had chances to put things on a fast track. And what you have is New Fantasyland, new DVC and MM+ ... (please, I'm begging here, don't take this into a compare and contrast the companies deal ... we've done that in approximately 6,569,900 threads here!) ... But there are no secrets in the business at the highest levels and it was well known what would happen (probably well before I even put it out there).

 

[schuelma]

They knew. They were aware. They had chances to put things on a fast track. And what you have is New Fantasyland, new DVC and MM+ ... (please, I'm begging here, don't take this into a compare and contrast the companies deal ... we've done that in approximately 6,569,900 threads here!) ... But there are no secrets in the business at the highest levels and it was well known what would happen (probably well before I even put it out there).

They simply did/do not see UNI as a real threat? Arrogance? complacency? All of the above?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

You said ''right mind'' ... that goes off into addictions and the like. There's a woman who I have followed for years online (she has quite a following and somehow a state job that allows her what seems like four months a year of vacation time) and I swear she owns enough DVC points that she likely could buy a home not too far from where George and Andy live. Yes, you can be addicted to DVC. ANd, no, there is no truly healthy addiction.

I think most of us have an irrational attachment to the Disney brand, but there isn't anything wrong with that. Rationality is objective and devoid of emotion, and for a lot of us, vacation time is inherently the opposite. We don't need the best, but we want something that strikes a chord with us and creates memories that'll be meaningful later on. For some people, a trip to the beach does the same thing. For others, it's Disney. Other people need to stay at a Four Seasons/Ritz, and even those are too "chainlike" for people seeking true exclusivity.

That said, Disney knows how to capitalize on this irrationality. Their marketing recycles the same buzzwords each year ("Celebrate memories of magical dreams, wishes, and fantasy. Disney Parks!"), and those buzzwords are reinforced everywhere at the parks and resorts. But it's not just the marketing - the product itself does have redeeming qualities, and there's a reason why people become attached to places like Polynesian, Wilderness Lodge, the Boardwalk, etc.

If Disney could price their resorts fairly and cool it with the timeshares (or at least make more considerate design decisions), we'd be having a different discussion. But the current business model shows no signs of going away, so people will have to accept it (even begrudgingly) or move on. The latter might be impossible for many of us - that's why we're here.

 

[danv3]

Just one last point on the UNI tidbit that I teased on the first page.

I'll go into depth more (likely over the weekend, but if I disappear for a few days ... please, don't fill this with BS and rants about be promising!) but have talked a lot to some friends who work for UNI and (this may or may not be a surprise ... folks here all have varying degrees of knowledge about the business of parks) and understand this: Disney, at the highest levels, knew exactly (and I do mean exactly) what UNI was building in Potter 2.0 when the shark was still lurking in Amity.

They knew. They were aware. They had chances to put things on a fast track. And what you have is New Fantasyland, new DVC and MM+ ... (please, I'm begging here, don't take this into a compare and contrast the companies deal ... we've done that in approximately 6,569,900 threads here!) ... But there are no secrets in the business at the highest levels and it was well known what would happen (probably well before I even put it out there).

Anyone who's seen the 7DMT commercial knows the Potter Swatter is already up and running. Way to go TDO!

 

[flynnibus]

There is no doubt DVC moving into a resort has a number of impacts. In most cases though, I think the guests staying there as non DVC members win with upgraded amenities. I usually feel it is the villas side that is a bit lacking - often with no dedicated checkin/front desk, no nearby pool etc.

Other than potential price increases and reduction in availability, I don't see this as a bad thing for WL regulars.

Less hotel rooms - less customers for hotel services... Less incentive to build those out

 

[Goofyernmost]

Just one last point on the UNI tidbit that I teased on the first page.

I'll go into depth more (likely over the weekend, but if I disappear for a few days ... please, don't fill this with BS and rants about be promising!) but have talked a lot to some friends who work for UNI and (this may or may not be a surprise ... folks here all have varying degrees of knowledge about the business of parks) and understand this: Disney, at the highest levels, knew exactly (and I do mean exactly) what UNI was building in Potter 2.0 when the shark was still lurking in Amity.

They knew. They were aware. They had chances to put things on a fast track. And what you have is New Fantasyland, new DVC and MM+ ... (please, I'm begging here, don't take this into a compare and contrast the companies deal ... we've done that in approximately 6,569,900 threads here!) ... But there are no secrets in the business at the highest levels and it was well known what would happen (probably well before I even put it out there).

Which translated out means that they feel that no matter what Uni does it is not going to break the trance like hold WDW has on the public. They will have to share the people, but, all that will do is help control the crowding currently happening at WDW. I don't for a minute doubt that this bubble will eventually break, but, until then it is business as usual for the WDC.

 

[seascape]

The management fees go to Disney. So does the profit from the laundry and the transportation system and check in and check out fees. You can be sure Disney is making a very good profit. I don't blame them. I own other timeshares and they make lots of money on the maintenance fees.

 

[wm49rs]

The management fees go to Disney. So does the profit from the laundry and the transportation system and check in and check out fees. You can be sure Disney is making a very good profit. I don't blame them. I own other timeshares and they make lots of money on the maintenance fees.

The transportation system DVC basically "hires" from TDO. All those other fees, if they're created in a DVC resort, goes back into DVC....