The problem with the monorail system

[PeterAlt]

So have this moved to Imagineering forum where you can ramble on about what you believe it is and your vision for its future.

I'm not going to get into my Imagineering ideas.

 

[marni1971]

I'm not going to get into my Imagineering ideas.

Thank you.

 

[thomas998]

Okay, here's a preview of the edited version of my original post. Changes or additions are in bold. Deletion are not marked. I've only cleaned up the first several paragraphs so far. I'll finish it later. Just wanted to post what I have done so far so that you all have an idea what I'm trying to write...


The problem with the monorail system at WDW is that is was never designed to function as a park to park transportation system.

Oddly enough, when they built the MK at its current location in the northern reaches of the property (a site personally chosen by Walt himself), they discovered that the land planned for parking was swamp - unusable. In order to respect Walt's original site plan for the park, older brother Roy (CEO and now also President) decided to keep the park at its current location but the parking would go where it is today - at the Transportation and Ticket Center. Where parking would have gone - the unusable land - would be filled in with water as an artificial extension of Bay Lake.

So, the problem now was how to get guests to the park from the new location of the parking lot - quite a bit aways. The MK (along with the ferry boat) solved this very problem. Its transportation purpose was mandatory in order to overcome this problem. Additionally, it helped create the illusion of being magically transported to a different dimension of time - a different world. An inner loop served guests traveling to the MK from various hotels along the lagoon.

The EPCOT loop basically gives people who park at the MK parking lot a choice of new dimensions to choose from: magical goodness or futurist internationalism. It was added eleven years later and was never part of any Master Plan for the property. For what it does, it serves its purpose as a limited and very specific transportation function.

Between the three different monorail loops, none really provide cohesive attraction to attraction transportation as its function. You don't need to ride the monorail to go to EC, if you park at EC, for example. And you can't take the monorail from the MK loop to go directly to EC. You can go from MK to EC via monorail, but you have to switch trains and go on two lines in order to do so, proving that the system was never designed as a convenient transportation alternative to buses in this function.

When I was there at WDW a few weeks ago, while at the TTC, I was thinking about this, looking up at the sign, pointing the way to the train going to the MK and another pointing to entrance for the train to EC. This is the only loading area in all of WDW where you can choose the monorail spur location to ride on. But the TTC is neither here or there. It is a transportation hub at the edge of nowhere with a big parking lot with a speedway in the middle. Yet, this "place" out in the middle of nowhere has two monorail loops going to it. Several ideas ran through my head as to what could be done to make sense of this enigma. I'll get into that later.

Leaving EC, my sister and I ran to catch the monorail as it entered the station. Entering the train, my sister asked the CM if this train was going to the MK. The CM said, "No, it's going to..."

I interrupted, "Yes, I know... The Transportation and Ticket Center."

The CM confirmed and my sister insisted that we were on the wrong train until I explained the whole TTC thing to her.

The reason I bring this up is so that if you can understand the concept of the EC monorail loop never servicing the MK, then the MK Parking Lot must be misnamed because it serves the TTC (not the MK). In other words, the MK has no parking and you must park at a nearby transportation hub and take a train, bus, or ferry in order to get there.

Now, with this concept of transportation hub and the purpose of the TTC explained, I have a riddle for you. Why is there a transportation hub for a monorail system that wasn't even designed as a functional transportation system to begin with?

That adds to the riddle of why is there a transportation out in the middle of nowhere and why do monorail loops reach out to this middle of nowhere from theme parks that are obviously somewhere? You get where I'm coming from. Add all the questions I asked or implied so far.

If the TTC were to truly function in the capacity I described, it would have loops connecting it to the other two parks. The fact that it doesn't even do that makes it even less functional as a transportation hub. If it did have four loops, connecting it to all four parks, it would effectively have four loops connecting nowhere to four somewheres - or four loops going nowhere (or your car, if that's where you parked). So, this makes worse sense.

One way to make sense of it is to build a fifth gate at the TTC parking lot and parking structures there. Now, both monorail loops would actually go somewhere. But this raises more questions than it answers, concerning why some parks have their own parking and why the monorail has a prejudice over the parks it goes to or leaves from.

A centralized parking hub serving on-site hotels and retail for all the parks is the most logical thing I could think of that would make sense of this whole mess. You would also need a separate transit system that would also create a big four point loop connecting the parks for direct park to park transport. Now, that's what I call true park hopping!.

The EPCOT loop basically gives people who park at the MK parking lot a choice of new dimensions to choose from: magical goodness or futurist internationalism.

None really provide transportation as its function. You don't need to ride the monorail to go to EC, if you park at EC, for example. And you can't take the monorail from the MK loop to go directly to EC. You can go from MK to EC via monorail, but you have to switch trains and go on two lines in order to do so, proving that the system was never designed as a convenient transportation alternative to buses in this function.

When I was there at WDW a few weeks ago, while at the TTC, I was thinking about this, looking up at the sign, pointing the way to the train going to the MK and another pointing to entrance for the train to EC. This is the only loading area in all of WDW where you can choose the monorail spur location to ride on. But the TTC is neither here or there. It is a transportation hub at the edge of nowhere with a big parking lot with a speedway in the middle. Yet, this "place" out in the middle of nowhere has two monorail loops going to it. Several ideas ran through my head as to what could be done to make sense of this enigma. I'll get into that later.

Leaving EC, my sister and I ran to catch the monorail as it entered the station. Entering the train, my sister asked the CM if this train was going to the MK. The CM said, "No, it's going to..."

I interrupted, "Yes, I know... The Transportation and Ticket Center."

The CM confirmed and my sister insisted that we were on the wrong train until I explained the whole TTC thing to her.

The reason I bring this up is so that if you can understand the concept of the EC monorail loop never servicing the MK, then the MK Parking Lot must be misnamed because it serves the TTC (not the MK). In other words, the MK has no parking and you must park at a nearby transportation hub and take a train, bus, or ferry in order to get there.

Now, with this concept of transportation hub and the purpose of the TTC explained, I have a riddle for you. Why is there a transportation hub for a monorail system that wasn't even designed as a functional transportation system to begin with?

That adds to the riddle of why is there a transportation out in the middle of nowhere and why do monorail loops reach out to this middle of nowhere from theme parks that are obviously somewhere? You get where I'm coming from. Add all the questions I asked or implied so far.

If the TTC were to truly function in the capacity I described, it would have loops connecting it to the other two parks. The fact that it doesn't even do that makes it even less functional as a transportation hub. If it did have four loops, connecting it to all four parks, it would effectively have four loops connecting nowhere to four somewheres - or four loops going nowhere (or your car, if that's where you parked). So, this makes worse sense.

One way to make sense of it is to build a fifth gate at the TTC parking lot and parking structures there. Now, both monorail loops would actually go somewhere. But this raises more questions than it answers, concerning why some parks have their own parking and why the monorail has a prejudice over the parks it goes to or leaves from.

A centralized parking hub serving on-site hotels and retail for all the parks is the most logical thing I could think of that would make sense of this whole mess. You would also need a separate transit system that would also create a big four point loop connecting the parks for direct park to park transport. Now, that's what I call true park hopping!

Let me give you a little constructive criticism. When you have been hit with accusations that your post is too long and convoluted for people to follow or even read from beginning to end, the best solution is to rethink your idea and try to present it in a shorter more concise form.... I doubt the best solution is to repost the entire thing again with simple bold facing to what you thought was important and then add on the entirety of the original post.

Maybe you actually made a brilliant point in your last attempt... but unfortunately I am doubtful that anyone has or will read it... I know I quickly scrolled to see how long it was and realized I had neither the time nor inclination to read a short story.

 

[PeterAlt]

Let me give you a little constructive criticism. When you have been hit with accusations that your post is too long and convoluted for people to follow or even read from beginning to end, the best solution is to rethink your idea and try to present it in a shorter more concise form.... I doubt the best solution is to repost the entire thing again with simple bold facing to what you thought was important and then add on the entirety of the original post.

Maybe you actually made a brilliant point in your last attempt... but unfortunately I am doubtful that anyone has or will read it... I know I quickly scrolled to see how long it was and realized I had neither the time nor inclination to read a short story.

Usually, stories go through multiple drafts. I shared the first draft. The input I got is helping me refine it and finish the second draft.

The circus earlier was all fun, but now I'm serious again. As a writer, I'm compelled to finish my work. Thanks for laughing with me earlier, but I can't leave it like that.

What do you think of the edits so far?

 

[PeterAlt]

How is this in Imagineering? I'm writing about history!

 

[PeterAlt]

Since it is in Imagineering, is that a subtle hint to include my Imagineering ideas because I was going to just focus on history and write a separate one for each idea here...

 

[slappy magoo]

What do you think of the edits so far?

I think they negate your point form the first post. Which is essentially good since your original post (in short, "The TTC wasn't designed to be a transportation system") made no sense and your edits more or less flip flop that point (in short, "the TTC wasn't designed to be an efficient transportation system - though it was a scenic solution to keep the MK where Walt wanted it - and it's not in a good place to expand").

But if your solution is to remain "they need to get rid of the TTC and put something else there" it's still a useless point because a: people who go to MK would then have no place to park and b: people who want to go to the thing that replaces the TTC would then have no place to park. Moving the TTC somewhere else is not a solution because it means people planning to go to MK would be parked even farther away then they currently are, making it take longer to get to and get out of the parks, to say nothing of the money it would take to expand the monorail that Disney would never spend, the problems of rerouting roads to be more accessible and any wetlands issues that might arise if that central-ish land is considered protected.

Essentially your convoluted thread boils down to the common fanboy plea "I want monorails everywhere." Fine, it's fine to want. File it under "G" for "God hears all prayers but sometimes the answer is no."

The closest thing to a solution would be also too expensive to warrant consideration - cut the TTC lot in half by building a two level covered deck on roughly half of the property (so the same amount of cars could be accommodated), cover the top of it with solar cells so WDW could ride that public relations pony all the way to market ("we're more green now than ever AND you all have covered parking now, you're welcome! [Oh, and by the way parking is now 30 bucks a car]"). The leftover space, Disney can build something that people would consider worth going to - a 24 hour diner? Another midway style location like the Boardwalk? Tailgate parties? More vendors? Performance space for bands that might keep people from rushing to/from the monorail and ferry thus cutting down congestion? This could potentially turn the TTC into a place people want to visit either before or after going to a park. If that thing were projected to cause more traffic at TTC, make the covered parking 3 level, still low enough that it wouldn't be an eyesore but incredibly useful.

 

[PeterAlt]

I think they negate your point form the first post. Which is essentially good since your original post (in short, "The TTC wasn't designed to be a transportation system") made no sense and your edits more or less flip flop that point (in short, "the TTC wasn't designed to be an efficient transportation system - though it was a scenic solution to keep the MK where Walt wanted it - and it's not in a good place to expand").

But if your solution is to remain "they need to get rid of the TTC and put something else there" it's still a useless point because a: people who go to MK would then have no place to park and b: people who want to go to the thing that replaces the TTC would then have no place to park. Moving the TTC somewhere else is not a solution because it means people planning to go to MK would be parked even farther away then they currently are, making it take longer to get to and get out of the parks, to say nothing of the money it would take to expand the monorail that Disney would never spend, the problems of rerouting roads to be more accessible and any wetlands issues that might arise if that central-ish land is considered protected.

Essentially your convoluted thread boils down to the common fanboy plea "I want monorails everywhere." Fine, it's fine to want. File it under "G" for "God hears all prayers but sometimes the answer is no."

The closest thing to a solution would be also too expensive to warrant consideration - cut the TTC lot in half by building a two level covered deck on roughly half of the property (so the same amount of cars could be accommodated), cover the top of it with solar cells so WDW could ride that public relations pony all the way to market ("we're more green now than ever AND you all have covered parking now, you're welcome! [Oh, and by the way parking is now 30 bucks a car]"). The leftover space, Disney can build something that people would consider worth going to - a 24 hour diner? Another midway style location like the Boardwalk? Tailgate parties? More vendors? Performance space for bands that might keep people from rushing to/from the monorail and ferry thus cutting down congestion? This could potentially turn the TTC into a place people want to visit either before or after going to a park. If that thing were projected to cause more traffic at TTC, make the covered parking 3 level, still low enough that it wouldn't be an eyesore but incredibly useful.

I just read the first couple of paragraphs, but I promise to read the rest a little later. I just wanted to respond to the part I read before I forget what I wanted to say.

First, THANK YOU for taking the time to say everything what you said!

My conclusions won't be "monorails every where". I pretty much said earlier what they are - and they aren't "tare down the TTC". It's repurposing it, using the existing structures in a different way that makes more sense - and adding new development to it. I think the original draft was not very clear on its generalizations and was misleading in what it was actually trying to accomplish. Even though, on the surface, the context is inverted, the end point remains the same. I chose the wrong way to get there in the original.

I'll finish reading the rest of your post before I continue with it, but I just need to take a break right now...

 

[MinnieM123]

Your opening post was interesting to some of us who like monorail-related, discussion topics. I'm not a monorail expert, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of your points, but I enjoyed the subject. Thank you for sharing.

Perhaps, as a few others have mentioned, your remarks might have been a bit lengthy for a general readership. (Due to your enthusiasm for the subject, you probably didn't even realize the size of your post. )

Maybe in the future, you could break down a larger subject like this into smaller segments. Then, see what kind of responses you receive from the first segment; and, based upon that, add more information in comfortable, incremental stages.

 

[GrammieBee]

Thanks. I got it all right, but I wasn't agreeing. I was being sarcastic. Anywhere is actually somewhere. And that's enough word play for now.

 

[stitchcastle]

all the name-calling and semantics aside, I agree about the TTC not really serving a proper role as a central transportation hub. The main issue of course is that it's not really a developed enough area to really act as a central hub for the entire resort (which it really should be). Had they built downtown Disney, or developed it as such, in the TTC area, people would indeed use it as a real transportation hub for the resort.

Imagine if guests driving into the resort were led directly towards the TTC, encouraged to leave their cars behind there and were able to just take whatever available transportation from the TTC to any park or district within the resort then it would serve a much more centralized and vital role.