The Park Formerly Known as Disney's Hollywood Studios? Yep ...

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Which Disney adapted and made its own signature versions of. Neither had been fully adapted for animation or the big screen before (there was a short, silent version of Peter Pan that Walt saw as a kid, apparently, but it was a minor effort). The difference is, Marvel characters have already been fully developed as movie and TV properties. They are not Disney-adapted or created characters. They have no Disney "magic". And never will. They are acquisitions purchased primarily for their merchandising. There's a big difference between Walt Disney and Robert Iger. If you're a Disney fan, you need to learn that difference. Stat!
There is. But, that doesn't mean Iger isn't doing right by the Disney Company by adopting these brands into the "community".

There's also a major difference between society when the Walt movies were released.

Kids tend not to watch the classics over and over again...

Iger would be lax in his duties to stick to the past. Even though I adore the past.

Eisner had similar issues, traditionalists hated him, they just didn't have forums to post it on with regularity (though Usenet and other forums were around and prominent...they focused mostly on other issues).

The reality is...no one will ever again be Walt for Disney. Ever. We can love the man, worship the man, many of the older members grew up with the man in our living rooms (and later Eisner for the 30 - 40 somethings)...

Iger is a different sort of CEO, but he's nonetheless been effective. He's consolidated a fan base with like minded interests (Star Wars fans tend to be Comic fans tend to be Disney fans, in that order, and as large as D23 stuff is, the Con stuff involving SW and Comics is far more prevalent).

He did what he's supposed to do, and read tea leaves, and made intelligent investments.

He's done a fantastic job (well, we'll see with SW, but so far, he's done well) of enabling without meddling with the creative direction of the third party IPs he's acquired...something other CEOs and Studios don't do very well with as they must insert their own ego.

He did a LOT for DCA. I remember when fan park fans were raving that he was the next coming of the theme park Jesus because he said "This needs to be fixed" or something along those lines regarding DCA...

And, it got fixed.

Am I happy as a WDW fan? No.

But it's ignorance to blame it all on Iger as if all he as to do is run MK and make sure the Monorails work all the time.

As a side note, to imply that Walt never made IP acquisitions or investments is just ignorant. Did he control the creative output of them far more than Iger does? Sure. But, Walt was a different person living in a different time and a vastly different socio-political climate.

Again, Iger is not Walt. but, Iger is not the "anti-Walt"...

Sorry.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
There is. But, that doesn't mean Iger isn't doing right by the Disney Company by adopting these brands into the "community".

There's also a major difference between society when the Walt movies were released.

Kids tend not to watch the classics over and over again...

Iger would be lax in his duties to stick to the past. Even though I adore the past.

Eisner had similar issues, traditionalists hated him, they just didn't have forums to post it on with regularity (though Usenet and other forums were around and prominent...they focused mostly on other issues).

The reality is...no one will ever again be Walt for Disney. Ever. We can love the man, worship the man, many of the older members grew up with the man in our living rooms (and later Eisner for the 30 - 40 somethings)...

Iger is a different sort of CEO, but he's nonetheless been effective. He's consolidated a fan base with like minded interests (Star Wars fans tend to be Comic fans tend to be Disney fans, in that order, and as large as D23 stuff is, the Con stuff involving SW and Comics is far more prevalent).

He did what he's supposed to do, and read tea leaves, and made intelligent investments.

He's done a fantastic job (well, we'll see with SW, but so far, he's done well) of enabling without meddling with the creative direction of the third party IPs he's acquired...something other CEOs and Studios don't do very well with as they must insert their own ego.

He did a LOT for DCA. I remember when fan park fans were raving that he was the next coming of the theme park Jesus because he said "This needs to be fixed" or something along those lines regarding DCA...

And, it got fixed.

Am I happy as a WDW fan? No.

But it's ignorance to blame it all on Iger as if all he as to do is run MK and make sure the Monorails work all the time.

As a side note, to imply that Walt never made IP acquisitions or investments is just ignorant. Did he control the creative output of them far more than Iger does? Sure. But, Walt was a different person.

Again, Iger is not Walt. but, Iger is not the "anti-Walt"...

Sorry.

I'll give Iger credit for the DCA redo, although his comment in regards to the redo's success, which amounted to "Uh, gee, I guess people want Disney stuff in Disney parks" was just a little too revealing of his mindset for my comfort. Yes, he's no Walt, and nobody else ever will be, and yes, he's a good CEO - at least as far as the stockholders are concerned. But to let a ride like Everest sit with a huge broken AA inside of it for so long, and to keep cutting corners on new attractions, and to view Walt's company as primarily a conglomerate of brands (Roy Disney insisted "Disney is not a brand!") and to buy up stuff like Marvel and Star Wars and plan to incorporate them into the parks instead of using Disney-adapted/created stuff that's still in the vault (why not the Pride Lands in AK instead of Avatar Land???) just shows a level of shallowness and utter lack of creative spirit that's very hard to support in someone who's in charge of the Walt Disney Company. Just sayin'. I'll never be a fan of the man. Done and done.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I'll give Iger credit for the DCA redo, although his comment in regards to the redo's success, which amounted to "Uh, gee, I guess people want Disney stuff in Disney parks" was just a little too revealing of his mindset for my comfort. Yes, he's no Walt, and nobody else ever will be, and yes, he's a good CEO - at least as far as the stockholders are concerned. But to let a ride like Everest sit with a huge broken AA inside of it for so long, and to keep cutting corners on new attractions, and to view Walt's company as primarily a conglomerate of brands (Roy Disney insisted "Disney is not a brand!") and to buy up stuff like Marvel and Star Wars and plan to incorporate them into the parks instead of using Disney-adapted/created stuff that's still in the vault (why not the Pride Lands in AK instead of Avatar Land???) just shows a level of shallowness and utter lack of creative spirit that's very hard to support in someone who's in charge of the Walt Disney Company. Just sayin'. I'll never be a fan of the man. Done and done.
And I partially agree (especially the unique IP parts when it comes to Parks)...

But, he's not the be all end all Devil. He's certainly not the lifeblood end of Disney.

The issue with Disney is that, imho, is that we, as theme park fans, look at the company from a very different view than the media centric base that is most if the overall income.

We say..."Hey, Iger, pay attention to the parks", and then get indirectly offended when he doesn't.

The reality is, park experiences are a reflection of mass media, not vice versa. Even Walt knew this, and that's part of why there was a Disneyland show. It's easily arguable that had Walt not run the Disneyland show, Disneyland would have flopped. Walt was one thing, a master marketer.

He was many other things, but on that respect I think we can all agree.

We can lament, heck, I'll lament, but change is necessary. I still won't back down that I think EPCOT and Frozen are a bad mix, but I do understand why they did it. And I agree, as most fans do, it was a cheap overlay, regardless.

The one concern I have are the people in WDI who feel as we do (and there is little doubt from Baxter's exit letter that the mantra exists)...

There will come a point where WDI, who is no longer valued, will lose their value to the company.

And when that point comes (and I think it's coming soon if it has not already)...the theme parks are screwed in their classical sense. Rather we'll get more of what we've already seen...populist chum (as in shark bait).

Not that Eisner or even Walt era was above that...

Furthermore, the younger generation, the ones who are entering their late 20s and early 30s and don't remember typewriters and rotary phones...don't care.

Over and over again you can read about how amazed they are and how "smart" they think they are that they can use a technological device to do something...without understanding it and why and how it works (something which was core to the original message of EPCOT...and probably why purists like me despise what is being done).

They are not marketing to us. Our kids are growing older, and our want to take them to WDW unless you are some sort of fanatic (which I am) are diminishing.

They are not planning for us.

They are preparing for them, and their young kids.

And their young kids want to see Frozen, and they don't care about themes not fitting, and they surely don't give a flip about "edutainment".

Two sides of vastly different coins.

Take Universal. Why do people think it's doing so well right now?

I have my own opinions based on my last trip, and I'll have some more based on my upcoming one...but, what I think the senior brass doesn't see is that they really enjoy what they are doing.

At Disney, I don't get that feeling. More and more at WDW I feel like I am chattel. So, I'd rather peel off more of my vacation to spend time over there. That said, I'm still doing 6 days at Disney vs 3 days at Uni. And the difference is made up with...a Disney Cruise.

They'll lose us, we'll move onto other ventures. The hard core will pay their overpriced "Disney Experience" stuff overseas, or move to to DCL (until they realize they can get more for less with Royal Caribbean...that's next for me, I'm going on DCL for one reason, the kiddo is 10, and by the time we do this sort of trip again, she will be a teen, and won't care that she saw Goofy anymore, so I want one last experience...and they KNOW that)...

But, they are losing us, and not marketing to us. They are marketing to the next wave of young parents. That is their cycle (for WDW).

Disney Mgmt however isn't stupid. As much as we'd love to believe they are. We may disagree with their decisions, but that doesn't immediately invalidate them.
 
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Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
They are not Disney-adapted or created characters. They have no Disney "magic". And never will.

*ahem*

42d0d37dbfde1a9c6cbd9215b72a430f2484c2c9.jpg
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
And I partially agree (especially the unique IP parts when it comes to Parks)...

But, he's not the be all end all Devil. He's certainly not the lifeblood end of Disney.

The issue with Disney is that, imho, is that we, as theme park fans, look at the company from a very different view than the media centric base that is most if the overall income.

We say..."Hey, Iger, pay attention to the parks", and then get indirectly offended when he doesn't.

The reality is, park experiences are a reflection of mass media, not vice versa. Even Walt knew this, and that's part of why there was a Disneyland show. It's easily arguable that had Walt not run the Disneyland show, Disneyland would have flopped. Walt was one thing, a master marketer.

He was many other things, but on that respect I think we can all agree.

We can lament, heck, I'll lament, but change is necessary. I still won't back down that I think EPCOT and Frozen are a bad mix, but I do understand why they did it. And I agree, as most fans do, it was a cheap overlay, regardless.

The one concern I have are the people in WDI who feel as we do (and there is little doubt from Baxter's exit letter that the mantra exists)...

There will come a point where WDI, who is no longer valued, will lose their value to the company.

And when that point comes (and I think it's coming soon if it has not already)...the theme parks are screwed in their classical sense. Rather we'll get more of what we've already seen...populist chum (as in shark bait).

Not that Eisner or even Walt era was above that...

Furthermore, the younger generation, the ones who are entering their late 20s and early 30s and don't remember typewriters and rotary phones...don't care.

Over and over again you can read about how amazed they are and how "smart" they think they are that they can use a technological device to do something...without understanding it and why and how it works (something which was core to the original message of EPCOT...and probably why purists like me despise what is being done).

They are not marketing to us. Our kids are growing older, and our want to take them to WDW unless you are some sort of fanatic (which I am) are diminishing.

They are not planning for us.

They are preparing for them, and their young kids.

And their young kids want to see Frozen, and they don't care about themes not fitting, and they surely don't give a flip about "edutainment".

Two sides of vastly different coins.

Take Universal. Why do people think it's doing so well right now?

I have my own opinions based on my last trip, and I'll have some more based on my upcoming one...but, what I think the senior brass doesn't see is that they really enjoy what they are doing.

At Disney, I don't get that feeling. More and more at WDW I feel like I am chattel. So, I'd rather peel off more of my vacation to spend time over there. That said, I'm still doing 6 days at Disney vs 3 days at Uni. And the difference is made up with...a Disney Cruise.

They'll lose us, we'll move onto other ventures. The hard core will pay their overpriced "Disney Experience" stuff overseas, or move to to DCL (until they realize they can get more for less with Royal Caribbean...that's next for me, I'm going on DCL for one reason, the kiddo is 10, and by the time we do this sort of trip again, she will be a teen, and won't care that she saw Goofy anymore, so I want one last experience...and they KNOW that)...

But, they are losing us, and not marketing to us. They are marketing to the next wave of young parents. That is their cycle (for WDW).

Disney Mgmt however isn't stupid. As much as we'd love to believe they are. We may disagree with their decisions, but that doesn't immediately invalidate them.

Wow. Both your posts are great! Thank you!
 

Chef idea Mickey`=

Well-Known Member
Disney's Hollywood Adventure
Disney's Adventures of Hollywood Park
Disney's Hollywood Park

DFA looks funny contrast to DCA so instead go with/
Disney Adventures Over Florida'!
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I think very few people jumped on the bandwagon "because" Disney owns them. I think people "jumped on the bandwagon" because they are making great films with widespread appeal. Part of that comes from the financial stability of being owned by Disney, but that's incidental (could have been, say, Paramount owning them instead and had that result).

Yes, you can't judge the world by a few Twitter-Twit Pixie Dusters.

I have always been a DC guy - I watched Spiderman and His Amazing Friends when I was a kid, I liked the X-men films and the first Sony Spiderman, but that was really it. Never cared much about Marvel whatsoever.

That said, while I still wouldn't call myself a "Marvel fan" - I do quite enjoy the movies, and I think the entire operation is really well done. I couldn't care less who owns them, Sony or Universal could have put these films out and I would have liked them just as much.

There are an awful lot of us who aren't specifically fans of/obsessed with the Disney company in general - but we love theme parks. That's why we are here. We don't have loyalty to any one studio, or some idea or perception of how it should be, what should be in it - etc. - that's a whole different realm of fandom to many of us.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Little Black Sambo is not one of Harris' stories. Harris compiled folk tales he had heard. Why would that tradition die because of his publication? The Wren's Nest may not be the biggest attraction, but someone keeps visiting to keep it going.

I'll have to take your word for it. I'm sure some folks somewhere read their kids Uncle Remus stories, but they were considered outdated and racist when I was a kid thirty years ago, I just have a hard time thinking anyone under 25 has even heard of them unless they have studied them in academic higher education. But, stranger things have happened.
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
I'll have to take your word for it. I'm sure some folks somewhere read their kids Uncle Remus stories, but they were considered outdated and racist when I was a kid thirty years ago, I just have a hard time thinking anyone under 25 has even heard of them unless they have studied them in academic higher education. But, stranger things have happened.
But the Tar Baby has been immortalized. "...but please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat brier-patch,". As you know, that 55 foot drop on Splash Mountain goes into the brier-patch.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
But the Tar Baby has been immortalized. "...but please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat brier-patch,". As you know, that 55 foot drop on Splash Mountain goes into the brier-patch.
Sorry, I'm having a problem connecting the Tar Baby to the phrase that you posted. Br'er Rabbit is the one that said that to get them to throw him into the Brier Patch. Immortalized is a strong word when the only ones ever even mentioning it are those that probably never saw the actual movie.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'll have to take your word for it. I'm sure some folks somewhere read their kids Uncle Remus stories, but they were considered outdated and racist when I was a kid thirty years ago, I just have a hard time thinking anyone under 25 has even heard of them unless they have studied them in academic higher education. But, stranger things have happened.
Song of the South had a successful theatrical rerelease in 1986. That success helped Splash Mountain get the final go ahead.
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I'm having a problem connecting the Tar Baby to the phrase that you posted. Br'er Rabbit is the one that said that to get them to throw him into the Brier Patch. Immortalized is a strong word when the only ones ever even mentioning it are those that probably never saw the actual movie.
Both are very well known American idiomatic expressions such as "Busy as a one-armed paper hanger". Both have deeper meanings that are revealed by folklore stories . Hence they are immortalized in the American English language. Not to mention that a number of U.S. politicians have regretted using the term "tar baby" because some people have interpreted that expression to be a derogatory racist utterance.

In Splash Mountain, Disney didn't want to deal with the possibility of any tar baby racist overtones so they substituted a bee hive to avoid any pejorative interpretations.
 

Skippy

Well-Known Member
Bingo! "Big Hero 6" was adapted and drastically changed in the grand Disney style. I love that film and can't wait for the sequel.
Has a sequel been announced? I don't know if I'm in the minority but I hope not. I was disappointed by the film.. Tried to hard to get an emotional reaction and was too predictable villain-wise. (imho) Not saying it was bad. Just mediocre.

In Splash Mountain, Disney didn't want to deal with the possibility of any tar baby racist overtones so they substituted a bee hive to avoid any pejorative interpretations.
And a good decision, that. Without historical knowledge of where the term/story comes from, the first thought most people will have is if it is or once was racially insensitive, even though it was not.

Odd film, Song of the South. Just watched it again earlier this week.
 

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