The New Fantasyland

lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
Yes, it's like this was the plan all along as I said before. 20K seems to have been a "last minute" add back in the day, and now we are finally getting the original intended design. Tea Cups are already in the right place so it makes perfect sense. And that is another indication this was the original idea. Maybe even Walt inspired. Now wouldn't that be interesting to find out.
Click to expand...
jt04 said:
And you know this because......? :shrug:

I used the word "maybe" before somone would say I stated it as fact. But I think it's possible, even if it was just a sketch or even a conversation. Obviously Walt Disney would have worked on concepts for WDW besides just EPCOT.
Click to expand...
The theme park was a concession to help secure the funding for EPCOT. Go to One Man's Dream and take a look at the map at the mock up of the filming of The EPCOT Film. The theme park is just the aerial plan of Disneyland. Walt Disney was focused on EPCOT, not the second Disneyland.

jt04 said:
As for TDO being over-ruled and forced to accept the expansion. Well, even if that is the way it's going down, it is indicative of future trends. It's obvious these type decisions are going to be coming from the top more and more. Perhaps all the TDO bashing has been part of it. :rolleyes: Or maybe it is just easier to control quality and content from California and TDO's loss of power is just the result of a new corporate strategy. I'd bet on the latter.
Click to expand...
That makes no sense and you should know that by now.

jt04 said:
I have never said the actual attractions are part of a long range plan. That is way to detailed. But I do believe there are "macro" plans that get refreshed as time goes on. I believe at any given time there are long range plans, but whether they get approved is a different story. My guess is the macro concept of a castle courtyard, castle walls and enchanted forest has been around a long time. It is just to well conceived. If there is someone that just came up with the idea, they are beyond brilliant.
Click to expand...
What makes it brilliant? A wall is an easy way to create a transition. It is hard and obvious and simply masks the two differing experiences. The Mad Tea Party is still sitting almost on top of Tomorrowland. All that is seen is a plan with labels, not a whole lot more.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
The theme park was a concession to help secure the funding for EPCOT. Go to One Man's Dream and take a look at the map at the mock up of the filming of The EPCOT Film. The theme park is just the aerial plan of Disneyland. Walt Disney was focused on EPCOT, not the second Disneyland.

So he had no input at all? Doubtful.


That makes no sense and you should know that by now.

Could you be just a little more specific?


What makes it brilliant? A wall is an easy way to create a transition. It is hard and obvious and simply masks the two differing experiences. The Mad Tea Party is still sitting almost on top of Tomorrowland. All that is seen is a plan with labels, not a whole lot more.

You'll see the brilliance at the same moment you go, "ohhhhhhhhh now I get it"
Click to expand...

:wave: ...
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
So he had no input at all? Doubtful.
Click to expand...
The EPCOT Film was made in October and Walt died in December. His health was already getting to him as he never even bothered to reshoot a line where he incorrectly gives the name of EPCOT as the Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow. Watch the video and you can see him correct himself. If you have the evidence to show that Walt Disney was not fixated on EPCOT you will be the first.

Could you be just a little more specific?
Click to expand...
I should know by now that this will once again be futile, but I guess I will. Team Disney orlando has never had the authority you allege it ever held. This type of project would always be something decided by corporate. Team Disney Orlando's job is to make the case for projects such as this, adding capacity to what is supposedly the world's busiest theme park. Corporate is doing their job for them, not establishing a new structure.

jt04 said:
You'll see the brilliance at the same moment you go, "ohhhhhhhhh now I get it"
Click to expand...
I can understand it fine right now. Just read Grimm's Fairy Tales and the enchanted forest is everywhere. The castle wall comes directly from that same fairy tale model. What this shows is an combination of the settings of various fairy tales.

Belle is outside castle walls, and why I doubt a second castle would be built, because she is from a "little town, full of little people [...] a poor provincial town". Ariel may be royalty but even Prince Eric lived on a seaside property. How this plays out can do a lot in the geographic narrative of Fantasyland.

The castle wall sitting between Snow White and Pooh is also clear. Inside we have the fair princess and on the outside we have the silly bear of the Hundred Acre Wood. It all moves out into an enchanted forest. Moving Dumbo also places the circus into a clearing in the wood near the train tracks, exactly where a circus would have set up show.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
The EPCOT Film was made in October and Walt died in December. His health was already getting to him as he never even bothered to reshoot a line where he incorrectly gives the name of EPCOT as the Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow. Watch the video and you can see him correct himself. If you have the evidence to show that Walt Disney was not fixated on EPCOT you will be the first.

I just don't see any reason to believe he hadn't expressed his desires for the MK no matter how fixated he was on Epcot. They were working on the WDW project for many years not just a couple months.


I should know by now that this will once again be futile, but I guess I will. Team Disney orlando has never had the authority you allege it ever held. This type of project would always be something decided by corporate. Team Disney Orlando's job is to make the case for projects such as this, adding capacity to what is supposedly the world's busiest theme park. Corporate is doing their job for them, not establishing a new structure.

Well this is the third variation I've heard. Call me a skeptic. I guess we will have to wait for the book.


I can understand it fine right now. Just read Grimm's Fairy Tales and the enchanted forest is everywhere. The castle wall comes directly from that same fairy tale model. What this shows is an combination of the settings of various fairy tales.

Belle is outside castle walls, and why I doubt a second castle would be built, because she is from a "little town, full of little people [...] a poor provincial town". Ariel may be royalty but even Prince Eric lived on a seaside property. How this plays out can do a lot in the geographic narrative of Fantasyland.

The castle wall sitting between Snow White and Pooh is also clear. Inside we have the fair princess and on the outside we have the silly bear of the Hundred Acre Wood. It all moves out into an enchanted forest. Moving Dumbo also places the circus into a clearing in the wood near the train tracks, exactly where a circus would have set up show.

Seems brilliant to me.[/quote]

...
Click to expand...
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Yes, and after all that work, in October 1966 the theme park was a copy of Disneyland.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Here's a picture of Walt in October, 1966, less than 60 days before his death. This is Walt in the "Florida Project" room at Imagineering. The big map behind him is the Magic Kingdom, the self-described "weenie" that would get people to visit and travel through Epcot the city to the northern edge of the property.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kcOhS_A3t.../W3E9z1fBqx0/s1600-h/WALT%2BDISNEY%2B1965.jpg

Just study that October, 1966 picture of Walt and his new Florida property for a few moments. I'll wait...

Look at that theme park! It's just a cut and paste of Disneyland circa 1966. There's New Orleans Square and Haunted Mansion, with the house built in '63 but the ride still yet to open in '69. There's the Matterhorn, and It's a Small World in Fantasyland, with StorybookLand Canal Boats and Casey Jr. Circus Train. There's Fowler's Harbor and the home port of the Sailing Ship Columbia with the Indian Village beyond. Frontierland features the original 1960 layout of Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland and the Pack Mules. The railroad around the park passes through the Grand Canyon Diorama building and the new Primeval World using the dinosaurs from the World's Fair. And over in Tomorrowland there's the CircleVision theater sponsored by the Bell System, with the Autopia freeways covering the caverns of the Submarine Voyage. The Carousel of Progress isn't there because that won't arrive until '67, but the Flying Saucers installed in 1962 are clearly visible. All in Walt's Magic Kingdom Theme Park in the northern edge of his Florida Project. :brick:
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
You know, it really is a shame that WDW doesn't have an Al Lutz to shed light on this topic and let us know if this Fantasyland plan was for real or not.

If Al Lutz covered WDW instead of Disneyland, these blueprints would have been leaked on Miceage months ago and Al Lutz would have detailed the thinking going on in the executive offices in regards to these plans. WDW needs a really good insider, like Al Lutz is for Disneyland and all things headed to Disneyland.
 
MousDad

MousDad

New Member
^The best evidence that they are real is the fact that TWDC, as quick as they are to deny, hasn't said anything about them.

But the fact that the plans are real is no definitive indication that the thing will ever be built, or be built according to those particular plans.
 
krankenstein

krankenstein

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Explorer said:
EPCOT? What could go to EPCOT?


Now, if you were to look at the OLD plans for Tokyo DisneySea, when it was Port Disney and in Cali, the Seabase idea would go perfectly in EPCOT.;)
Click to expand...

I don't think that is what anyone meant (maybe vacationer did). Martin meant that parts of DisneySea was going to be incorporated into WDW, but you already know that. :D


You can be such a n00b! :lol: :p
 
cdunbar

cdunbar

Active Member
krankenstein said:
I don't think that is what anyone meant (maybe vacationer did). Martin meant that parts of DisneySea was going to be incorporated into WDW, but you already know that. :D


You can be such a n00b! :lol: :p
Click to expand...
Krank, thank you! You totally answered he question I asked Martin last night! So which parts would you be referring to? Other than JTTCOE
 
WDW Vacationer

WDW Vacationer

Active Member
krankenstein said:
I don't think that is what anyone meant (maybe vacationer did). Martin meant that parts of DisneySea was going to be incorporated into WDW, but you already know that. :D


You can be such a n00b! :lol: :p
Click to expand...
If anything were to ever come, I know it would most likely be things in Disneysea. But you know what they say, old plans never die at WDI.;)
 
WDW Vacationer

WDW Vacationer

Active Member
TP2000 said:
You know, it really is a shame that WDW doesn't have an Al Lutz to shed light on this topic and let us know if this Fantasyland plan was for real or not.

If Al Lutz covered WDW instead of Disneyland, these blueprints would have been leaked on Miceage months ago and Al Lutz would have detailed the thinking going on in the executive offices in regards to these plans. WDW needs a really good insider, like Al Lutz is for Disneyland and all things headed to Disneyland.
Click to expand...
Al Lutz could cover Walt Disney World if he wanted to, but he'd rather blast it and refuse that there is anything good about it.:mad:
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
_Scar said:
I've heard this:

MK is getting FL expansion
HS is getting MI
Epcot is getting river rapids in WS
DAK is getting BK


how much of that is true, idk?
Click to expand...
I think that idea is dead...
TP2000 said:
The 50th???

Okay, per jt04, we should lock this thread and just wait until September, 2021 when the Fantasyland remodel will be finished and ready for the 50th.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes::ROFLOL::ROFLOL: He's giving us time to forget...:lol:
krankenstein said:
I don't think that is what anyone meant (maybe vacationer did). Martin meant that parts of DisneySea was going to be incorporated into WDW, but you already know that. :D


You can be such a n00b! :lol: :p
Click to expand...

I did it on purpose!:lol: Let me geek out!:mad::ROFLOL:
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
TP2000 said:
The 50th???

Okay, per jt04, we should lock this thread and just wait until September, 2021 when the Fantasyland remodel will be finished and ready for the 50th. :D
Click to expand...

I was refering to all of WDW not just FL :brick:

TP2000 said:
You know, it really is a shame that WDW doesn't have an Al Lutz to shed light on this topic and let us know if this Fantasyland plan was for real or not.

If Al Lutz covered WDW instead of Disneyland, these blueprints would have been leaked on Miceage months ago and Al Lutz would have detailed the thinking going on in the executive offices in regards to these plans. WDW needs a really good insider, like Al Lutz is for Disneyland and all things headed to Disneyland.
Click to expand...

Al Lutz confirmed (again) that the plans are real just today!

MousDad said:
^The best evidence that they are real is the fact that TWDC, as quick as they are to deny, hasn't said anything about them.

But the fact that the plans are real is no definitive indication that the thing will ever be built, or be built according to those particular plans.
Click to expand...

See above. It's about as confirmed as anything gets before an official announcement.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom