The MK transit situation is becoming STUPID!

[Pioneer Hall]

I agree and don't agree at the same time. The expansion should have come years ago...probably 1989 with Hollywood Studios. When maintained properly the monorail system is very efficient. I do agree that an expansion is very unlikely though.



I love the show at MK and wouldn't want it any other way. Yes I dread the fact that it will take me 90 mins to get to my car sometimes (esp. during peak season) but it's still an amazing experience!



This. The monorail is the problem. It's efficiency has definitely waned over the past 10 years and I think it is in dire need of replacement. But if they were to increase the fleet to say 15 trains and instill an automated scheduled (ie: the trains only spend 2-3 minutes at the station during peak morning and evening hours), the system could easily move the increased amount of people if it's running with the Ferries and Bus system.

But the system isn't really efficient even with maintenance. No matter how well you maintain something there are no guarantees that something won't go wrong at any given time. You might maintain your car incredibly well, but it doesn't mean that your tire might go flat unexpectedly. When a Monorail goes down it shuts down at a minimum that entire line since clearly nothing can go around that stalled train. If a bus breaks down, they just get a new bus for those people, and no one else is affected. Other buses just go right past the broken one of their route. Monorails are fun and certainly more "magical" than buses, but they really aren't a great mode of transportation if you are looking to be efficient.

 

[devoy1701]

But the system isn't really efficient even with maintenance. No matter how well you maintain something there are no guarantees that something won't go wrong at any given time. You might maintain your car incredibly well, but it doesn't mean that your tire might go flat unexpectedly. When a Monorail goes down it shuts down at a minimum that entire line since clearly nothing can go around that stalled train. If a bus breaks down, they just get a new bus for those people, and no one else is affected. Other buses just go right past the broken one of their route. Monorails are fun and certainly more "magical" than buses, but they really aren't a great mode of transportation if you are looking to be efficient.

a second express beam would work wonders...it would be expensive...but as I said in the other thread, it's a long term capital investment and they seem to have made a good choice 40 years ago with the investment and for the past 20 years with the Mark VIs, this would help eliviate the issue of if something happens to a monorail on the express beam...

Just armchair imagineering/business planning here.

 

[Kamikaze]

a second express beam would work wonders...it would be expensive...but as I said in the other thread, it's a long term capital investment and they seem to have made a good choice 40 years ago with the investment and for the past 20 years with the Mark VIs, this would help eliviate the issue of if something happens to a monorail on the express beam...

Just armchair imagineering/business planning here.

What do you do near the Contemp? Go on the close side? I'm sure those rooms on those floors would love that. You'd need to build a new MK station and a new TTC Station.
Could probably buy 50 new ferries for the cost of doing what you're proposing.

 

[devoy1701]

What do you do near the Contemp? Go on the close side? I'm sure those rooms on those floors would love that. You'd need to build a new MK station and a new TTC Station.
Could probably buy 50 new ferries for the cost of doing what you're proposing.

it's no different than the rooms that are near where the current monorails run through the building...it gets pretty loud in there. And actually I bet the rooms would enjoy another monorail running outside the building along World Dr infront of the Contemp.

Any expansion would require a huge investment of capital, but expansing the MK station and a slot on the TTC would work better that adding ferries...there is already enough water traffic on that lake. Look at the costs and saying "oh that's too much" is a very short-sighted way of looking at things. But then again they should have done this 20 years ago.

 

[Kamikaze]

it's no different than the rooms that are near where the current monorails run through the building...it gets pretty loud in there. And actually I bet the rooms would enjoy another monorail running outside the building along World Dr infront of the Contemp.

I'm not talking about the sound, I'm referring to the fact that you'd have a giant concrete beam blocking your view.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

a second express beam would work wonders...it would be expensive...but as I said in the other thread, it's a long term capital investment and they seem to have made a good choice 40 years ago with the investment and for the past 20 years with the Mark VIs, this would help eliviate the issue of if something happens to a monorail on the express beam...

Just armchair imagineering/business planning here.

Sorry, but that doesn't sounds like a practical business plan in any way when you consider alternatives. There is no question that buses are cheaper than monorail track, so why would you invest in track (which still faces the same shutdown problems if a train should stall) when you can get a lot of buses for the same price? I'll be the first to tell you that I would rather take a monorail over a bus any day of the week. They are more fun and scream Disney for me. However, let's call it as it is, they are efficient or financially beneficial modes of transportation. If they were we would see cities across the globe investing in them over bus systems, which are everywhere. Take a look at Las Vegas as a prime example. They thought the monorail would be a great solution to the cities transit problems and it was a disaster. I am sure that if they could go back and take that away they would. While I expect Disney to exceed service expectations, magic≠logic, and I need to sometimes think logically about how decisions might be made.

 

[devoy1701]

Sorry, but that doesn't sounds like a practical business plan in any way when you consider alternatives. There is no question that buses are cheaper than monorail track, so why would you invest in track (which still faces the same shutdown problems if a train should stall) when you can get a lot of buses for the same price? I'll be the first to tell you that I would rather take a monorail over a bus any day of the week. They are more fun and scream Disney for me. However, let's call it as it is, they are efficient or financially beneficial modes of transportation. If they were we would see cities across the globe investing in them over bus systems, which are everywhere. Take a look at Las Vegas as a prime example. They thought the monorail would be a great solution to the cities transit problems and it was a disaster. I am sure that if they could go back and take that away they would. While I expect Disney to exceed service expectations, magic≠logic, and I need to sometimes think logically about how decisions might be made.

it's all about short term vs long term planning. In the short term it may be cheaper...but I imagine in the long run it breaks even or even exceeds the bus fleet in operation, and it has less risk associated as the cost to operate the bus fleet is heavily dependent on the price of oil.

Not to mention that the Monorail is a feature that is unique to Disney theme parks and because of that should hold intrinsic value above just being a transportation system...so I heavily disagree with any moves that appear to be phasing out monorail service.

 

[RunnerEd]

If you dont want to run into a HUGE crowd, then how bout NOT LEAVIN RIGHT AFTER FIREWORKS, if the park is open later then take advantage of it. Ive never waited in a line to leave Magic Kingdom in years cuz i usually go when Regular hours are until 12am - 1am

Exactly. When Wishes ends, head to BTMR, it's usually a 10 minute wait. Then go walk on Splash. Grab a Dole Whip, stroll down Main Street and shop a little, then head to the Monorail/Ferry and head back after having some fun instead of waiting in line. Right after parades/fireworks is the best time to head to the back of the park.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

it's all about short term vs long term planning. In the short term it may be cheaper...but I imagine in the long run it breaks even or even exceeds the bus fleet in operation, and it has less risk associated as the cost to operate the bus fleet is heavily dependent on the price of oil.

Not to mention that the Monorail is a feature that is unique to Disney theme parks and because of that should hold intrinsic value above just being a transportation system...so I heavily disagree with any moves that appear to be phasing out monorail service.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think that more of what you say is based on the bold part of your statement above. I agree that it holds intrinsic value and is all about Disney, but even long term buses require less work and can be replaced very easily. Have a bus accident and it is a lot easier to make up for that lost bus, have a monorail accident and over 2 years later you still have two broken halves because a new train is incredibly expensive.

 

[devoy1701]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think that more of what you say is based on the bold part of your statement above. I agree that it holds intrinsic value and is all about Disney, but even long term buses require less work and can be replaced very easily. Have a bus accident and it is a lot easier to make up for that lost bus, have a monorail accident and over 2 years later you still have two broken halves because a new train is incredibly expensive.

believe what you will. PuntagordaBob makes an excellent point in the other thread. TDO has put themselves in this situation because they have failed to maintain the system. Cities around the world do use monorail systems on a daily basis and have been longer than WDW has been using it. The system should be able to handle the increased demand and TDO should have done something about it years ago, and should be looking into doing something about it now other than decreasing the accessability for guests.

 

[ScoutN]

So you are going to compare a system that you have to pay per ride, that is run by a DOT, with a much longer route and more stops that gain more PAYING riding customers… To an "included in ticket price" private monorail line.

Logistics of cities that have a mono vs private company cannot even be compared. To even consider comparing the two is just absurd.

 

[Kamikaze]

Cities around the world do use monorail systems on a daily basis and have been longer than WDW has been using it. The system should be able to handle the increased demand and TDO should have done something about it years ago, and should be looking into doing something about it now other than decreasing the accessability for guests.

Have to call you out on this statement.
There are a total of 7 (6 if you don't count DLR) monorail systems that are older than WDW's. And only three of those six systems carry any significant amount of passengers.

 

[menamechris]

believe what you will. PuntagordaBob makes an excellent point in the other thread. TDO has put themselves in this situation because they have failed to maintain the system. Cities around the world do use monorail systems on a daily basis and have been longer than WDW has been using it. The system should be able to handle the increased demand and TDO should have done something about it years ago, and should be looking into doing something about it now other than decreasing the accessability for guests.

This is exactly right. Regardless of whether some people are ticked at the monorail system lately because of some maintenance issues, you would wait twice as long with bus systems. The monorail is extremely efficient in transporting an extremely large group of people at any given time. And has no one heard of SunRail? This is essentially a monorail type mode of transportation that the State of Florida has jumped on. I deal with the monorail system on pretty much a weekly basis, and the amount of times I have been stuck is only a handful. The problem is some people are blowing these issues out of proportion when they read about them on the internet. I would guess most people wouldn't know any different if they weren't getting daily updates on here. With the changes to the monorail schedules, they clearly have a plan to ramp up maintenance and start giving the trains the attention they need. Let's give them a chance to fix it...after all - isn't that what we always complain that they don't do?

 

[Kamikaze]

This is exactly right. Regardless of whether some people are ticked at the monorail system lately because of some maintenance issues, you would wait twice as long with bus systems. The monorail is extremely efficient in transporting an extremely large group of people at any given time. And has no one heard of SunRail? This is essentially a monorail type mode of transportation that the State of Florida has jumped on. I deal with the monorail system on pretty much a weekly basis, and the amount of times I have been stuck is only a handful. The problem is some people are blowing these issues out of proportion when they read about them on the internet. I would guess most people wouldn't know any different if they weren't getting daily updates on here. With the changes to the monorail schedules, they clearly have a plan to ramp up maintenance and start giving the trains the attention they need. Let's give them a chance to fix it...after all - isn't that what we always complain that they don't do?

SunRail is dead.

 

[ScoutN]

SunRail is dead.

Tri-Rail is not.

 

[devoy1701]

So you are going to compare a system that you have to pay per ride, that is run by a DOT, with a much longer route and more stops that gain more PAYING riding customers… To an "included in ticket price" private monorail line.

Logistics of cities that have a mono vs private company cannot even be compared. To even consider comparing the two is just absurd.

yes I am...WDW's monorail is part of the experience you are paying for AND they probably see more revenue and have more control over budget than the DOT of a country...plus it's a smaller system so it should be much easier to maintain.

 

[Kamikaze]

Tri-Rail is not.

I've never been on it, but isn't tri-rail just a commuter railroad?

yes I am...WDW's monorail is part of the experience you are paying for AND they probably see more revenue and have more control over budget than the DOT of a country...plus it's a smaller system so it should be much easier to maintain.

However, the monorail does not take in one red cent of money by itself. Those other systems do.

 

[devoy1701]

Have to call you out on this statement.
There are a total of 7 (6 if you don't count DLR) monorail systems that are older than WDW's. And only three of those six systems carry any significant amount of passengers.

in other words....i make a valid argument. Thank you for reinforcing it.

:wave:

 

[menamechris]

SunRail is dead.

Really? Our governor gave the green light..

http://www.sunrail.com/progress.asp

 

[ScoutN]

yes I am...WDW's monorail is part of the experience you are paying for AND they probably see more revenue and have more control over budget than the DOT of a country...plus it's a smaller system so it should be much easier to maintain.

Because you are only paying for the monorail correct? None of what you pay goes to upkeep, utilities, laundering, wages, etc.

It is a smaller private fleet so it should be much more difficult to maintain.