The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[Too Many Hats]

I think Runaway Railway is a very weak ride. The fact that nearly everything is just a projection removes nearly any sense of involvement, wonder, or —in the factory— peril. The plywood cutouts on Mr. Toad are more involving and fun.

I mean, certain moments/scenes worked for me. The city scene feels exciting and immersive, with a lot going on in a small space. The part where the underwater scene drains into the sewer is fun.

Speaking of Toad — I won’t pretend to have any idea how the Runaway Railway tech works, but wouldn’t it be spectacular if WDI could apply the “2.5D” tech to a smaller-scale Fantasyland-style dark ride? A Mr. Toad where the scenes change before your eyes, like the factory scene of MMRR but 7 feet from your ride vehicle and happening constantly throughout the ride.

 

[Too Many Hats]

While not every ride is going to be for every person, to me, MMRR is a fun ride in a thematically appropriate area that replaced basically nothing, has decent capacity, a good air conditioned queue, and, if nothing else, it will draw people from other attractions. Modern Disney could do a lot worse.

100% agree. It’s (probably) not for me, but it’s popular and a perfect addition to Toontown.

I feel like some of the criticisms about MMRR and details not reaching the ceiling (where I don't feel like most guests are really looking anyway) could also be applied to several attractions, including IASW.

Indeed, most guests won’t notice the ceilings or the bare wall in the photo I posted on the previous page. And that’s totally fine. But some of us notice.

Attractions like Small World aren’t really comparable, IMO. Small World isn’t trying to immerse riders in the same way.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Attractions like Small World aren’t really comparable, IMO. Small World isn’t trying to immerse riders in the same way.

I guess I don't understand the difference. Small World literally has giant things hanging from the ceiling-and then a giant unthemed ceiling directly above that that isn't hard to see.

Small World may more dimensional, but it's also extremely two dimensional. The scenery in many instances is flat and goes right into visible walls.

What rides even have fully themed ceilings?

 

[Disney Analyst]

I guess I don't understand the difference. Small World literally has giant things hanging from the ceiling-and then a giant unthemed ceiling directly above that that isn't hard to see.

Small World may more dimensional, but it's also extremely two dimensional. The scenery in many instances is flat and goes right into visible walls.

What rides even have fully themed?

There isn’t really a difference. People just create their own arbitrary rules, usually only enforced for the new rides, with the originals getting a pass (by their standards).

I will say… I’ve always hated the Small World ceiling

 

[Too Many Hats]

Plenty of rides have exposed ceilings, but IMO it’s more pronounced on Runaway Railway because the rooms are so large and empty, and the flat walls of projections are so far away from you.

Cat in the Hat’s exposed ceilings are ugly and ridiculous, but you can tune it out because of the exciting practical effects happening directly in front of you.

Small World isn’t trying to transport riders anywhere; it’s just a World’s Fair exhibit. I guess you could say it transports riders to 1964.

Runaway Railway is trying to convince riders they’re in the desert, at a carnival, on a tropical island, etc. — and those scenes just didn’t work for me. It’s more like you’re looking at a painting of a tropical island on the wall.

There isn’t really a difference. People just create their own arbitrary rules, usually only enforced for the new rides, with the originals getting a pass (by their standards).

Again, I’m not a Runaway Railway hater. I love the facade, the queue, and the preshow, and I enjoy the dance studio, tornado, city scene, and picnic scene. It’s the other scenes where I struggled to get into the experience.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I was pretty disappointed with Cat in the Hat. For a clear "C Ticket" dark ride, it seemed very lacking in execution although the story line is clear.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I was pretty disappointed with Cat in the Hat. For a clear "C Ticket" dark ride, it seemed very lacking in execution although the story line is clear.

It could do a thorough update. The ride originally featured more spinning which filled in some of the scenic gaps. At a minimum it really needs a thorough refurbishment to cleanup and fix anything but it would really benefit from a whole pausing to enhance and add to scenes based on how it currently operates.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I was pretty disappointed with Cat in the Hat. For a clear "C Ticket" dark ride, it seemed very lacking in execution although the story line is clear.

It's odd-sometimes I've really enjoyed CITH, sometimes I've been underwhelmed. In some ways it's similar to MMRR in that it's not a fully three-dimensional ride that may or may not be justified based on the material and one's personal opinions/likes/dislikes/etc.

I do fondly remember the way the vehicles would spin much more wildly during my first ride in 03-probably a good thing for the target audience that they toned it down, but it's very half-hearted now. They could remove the spins at this point and I don't think I'd care that much.

Plenty of rides have exposed ceilings, but IMO it’s more pronounced on Runaway Railway because the rooms are so large and empty, and the flat walls of projections are so far away from you.
Runaway Railway is trying to convince riders they’re in the desert, at a carnival, on a tropical island, etc. — and those scenes just didn’t work for me. It’s more like you’re looking at a painting of a tropical island on the wall.

I guess to me it's just something that I tune out, or something that I think is common enough in my eyes that it's odd to focus on it within MMRR specifically.

For all of its (justified) hype, Sindbad in Tokyo also has very visible ceilings for much of it (those clouds aren't fooling anyone, nor do they last the entire ride):

And Sindbad and Small World are hardly alone in being like this. Even Haunted Mansion's ceilings get much less detailed once you're in the ride vehicle.

Maybe that's a situation where it really wouldn't be noticeable on MMRR if there were more physical props/animatronics/etc visible, but it still seems a bit nitpicky to me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Cat in the Hat’s exposed ceilings are ugly and ridiculous, but you can tune it out because of the exciting practical effects happening directly in front of you.

I wonder how many people noticed the Things up above them?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ceilings are difficult. The interstitial space above a ride holds a lot of equipment and there are code requirements that need to be followed.

For all practical purposes you have to have fire sprinklers in an attraction. The placement of sprinklers is based on the design of space, it’s not just a grid. Any scenic element that could cause smoke to accumulate smoke, heat or even fire will need to have its own sprinkler or sprinklers. But if the elements are not continuous then you need elements above them as well. That’s a lot of coordination.

Then you have things like lighting or projectors which need openings in the scenic elements. This limits your ability to make adjustments because you’re working through a hole. With lighting you could find/fabricate fixtures that work with the show but that too is a limitation.

This really hinders the ability to create a convincing effect. You’re down to about three really good choice: a small, actual room where you can have a true solid ceiling, a tree canopy that can be dense but not solid like on Splash Mountain or a very large, black space that disappears as night like Pirates of the Caribbean.

In smaller dark rides the ceiling is less of an issue because your field of view is not as large. With trackless vehicles the problem is really compounded because there’s this desire to show off the trackless technology which means even bigger spaces and an even bigger field of view. With Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway you get this sort of letter boxing where you have the floor and the ceiling space creating these sort of defined limits are both easy to read. A tracked ride can limit this by bringing the scene closer to the ride vehicle so while the ceiling space remains utilitarian there’s more to see in your immediate field of view.

 

[chadwpalm]

What rides even have fully themed ceilings?

Rise of the Resistance.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Rise of the Resistance.

Fair. The exception that proves the rule.

 

[SuddenStorm]

And Sindbad and Small World are hardly alone in being like this. Even Haunted Mansion's ceilings get much less detailed once you're in the ride vehicle.

Much of this is due to Disney messing up the proper show lighting on Mansion over the years. The load area hasn't had the proper lighting in years- you theoretically shouldn't be able to see the ceiling or the far wall. Of course, it's made worse now with the covid refurb additions. Same with the graveyard.

And perhaps that's the biggest sin of HMH- it lights up the entire attraction so much that for half the year, it's obvious it's just a warehouse.

 

[Rich T]

…Speaking of Toad — I won’t pretend to have any idea how the Runaway Railway tech works, but wouldn’t it be spectacular if WDI could apply the “2.5D” tech to a smaller-scale Fantasyland-style dark ride? A Mr. Toad where the scenes change before your eyes, like the factory scene of MMRR but 7 feet from your ride vehicle and happening constantly throughout the ride.

That kind of close-up, chaotic, disorienting atmosphere was exactly what I was hoping a Mickey dark ride would be like. I’m not against projections, I just want them used to plus-up a ride, not be the whole show. In the right hands, a projection-enhanced Mr. Toad could be one of the greatest things ever!

Regarding MMRR, I agree the City scene is really good; and, of course, it’s the one scene that’s way too brief. And I think the AA Pluto at the end is adorable.

I am not a big fan of trackless ride vehicles. RotR is the only ride I’ve been on where I thought the trackless vehicle movement added anything good to the experience. I think the ride system pretty much ruined MMRR and is one of the main reasons a great concept (Mickey dark ride!!!!) turned into a bland, un-involving projection show in a huge warehouse environment.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I think the ride system pretty much ruined MMRR and is one of the main reasons a great concept (Mickey dark ride!!!!) turned into a bland, un-involving projection show in a huge warehouse environment.

What are your thoughts on GMR in that area? To me, THAT ride was my go-to for "we're in a giant warehouse, and in tank-like ride vehicles" before it was removed.

 

[Rich T]

While not every ride is going to be for every person, to me, MMRR is a fun ride in a thematically appropriate area that replaced basically nothing, has decent capacity, a good air conditioned queue, and, if nothing else, it will draw people from other attractions. Modern Disney could do a lot worse.

I feel like some of the criticisms about MMRR and details not reaching the ceiling (where I don't feel like most guests are really looking anyway) could also be applied to several attractions, including IASW.

YMMV.

I agree MMRR is better than nothing when it comes to a new ride for Toontown at DL. It’s fun and has a thoughtful, brilliant queue. At WDW its presence is much more… a mixed bag, to say the least.

IASW doesn’t bother me in the “We’re in a warehouse” dept. because of its history, its art direction, its worth-waiting-for ride length, and, must importantly, because everything in there is real and has a presence.

My main beef with MMRR is that I, personally, think Imagineering can do much better than flat projections and those awful haunted mylar-balloon-shaped Mickey & Minnie AA’s. And the acceptance of certain seats on the ride not getting the full show has got to stop. I think that particular flaw is the one of suckiest, worst brain farts in Imagineering history.

 

[Rich T]

What are your thoughts on GMR in that area? To me, THAT ride was the go-to for "we're in a giant warehouse, and in tank-like ride vehicles" before it was removed.

I gotta be honest, I wasn’t a huge fan of GMR as it existed, and for the very reasons you point out. It was, however, an appropriate centerpiece attraction for that park. An improved, greatly enhanced and updated version of GMR would have been the ideal outcome.

Boy, if Universal ever wants to really grind Disney’s gears, they should open their own, better version of a GMR-like attraction at UOR.

 

[Rich T]

There isn’t really a difference. People just create their own arbitrary rules, usually only enforced for the new rides, with the originals getting a pass (by their standards).

I will say… I’ve always hated the Small World ceiling

I think most of us could agree that if the ceiling in an attraction bothers a lot of riders, then maybe the ride isn’t doing enough to pull riders’ eyes to the show.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I think most of us could agree that if the ceiling in an attraction bothers a lot of riders, then the maybe the ride isn’t doing enough to pull riders’ eyes to the show.

Sure - absolutely!

 

[Rich T]

I guess I don't understand the difference. Small World literally has giant things hanging from the ceiling-and then a giant unthemed ceiling directly above that that isn't hard to see.

Small World may more dimensional, but it's also extremely two dimensional. The scenery in many instances is flat and goes right into visible walls.

What rides even have fully themed ceilings?

For me, Small World is the Amazing Mary Blair/Sherman Brothers Voyage. I can forgive a lot of walls and ceilings for that. And it’s all hand-crafted and really there. That’s wonderful.