The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[DrAlice]

I did some pricing checks on Universal vs. Disneyland. What I compared: the price per person per day for 1 day at Universal with Express pass vs. 3 day park hopper + Genie+ at DL. Disneyland came out cheaper ($165 per person per day vs. $289). If I add it a couple of ILL's to the price per day at DL, that could potentially push the per day price to $200 per day. That's closer to Universal, but still cheaper.

My thoughts:
* Yes, yes... I know.... comparing a 3-day ticket to a 1 day ticket is a bit apples & oranges. However, this is what I would likely be purchasing, so the cost comparison is relevant to this vacationer.
* Why is Universal so expensive? Isn't it still basically a half-day park of attractions?
* Why doesn't Disney just raise ticket prices and eliminate all the confusing add-ons??? They would still come out ahead in terms of price per day, and it would be a lot less confusing. It would also feel better than the current "nickle and dime you to death" system they have now.


Anyhoo, I found it interesting and thought I would share.

 

[Phroobar]

I did some pricing checks on Universal vs. Disneyland. What I compared: the price per person per day for 1 day at Universal with Express pass vs. 3 day park hopper + Genie+ at DL. Disneyland came out cheaper ($165 per person per day vs. $289). If I add it a couple of ILL's to the price per day at DL, that could potentially push the per day price to $200 per day. That's closer to Universal, but still cheaper.

My thoughts:
* Yes, yes... I know.... comparing a 3-day ticket to a 1 day ticket is a bit apples & oranges. However, this is what I would likely be purchasing, so the cost comparison is relevant to this vacationer.
* Why is Universal so expensive? Isn't it still basically a half-day park of attractions?
* Why doesn't Disney just raise ticket prices and eliminate all the confusing add-ons??? They would still come out ahead in terms of price per day, and it would be a lot less confusing. It would also feel better than the current "nickle and dime you to death" system they have now.


Anyhoo, I found it interesting and thought I would share.

However, if you compare the 1 day price per person that most park visitors use, Disneyland far more expensive.

 

[DrAlice]

However, if you compare the 1 day price per person that most park visitors use, Disneyland far more expensive.

Yes. As I said, I was comparing for how MY FAMILY would purchase tickets.

Also, "far more expensive" is a bit of a stretch. I went back and compared DL's one day park hopper (+ all the add-ons) for the same week. DL only came out $20 more than Universal. Interesting.

Which goes back to my previous question: Why is Universal so expensive? Even with the many additions, aren't they still a half-day to one day park? For essentially the same price? Crazy.

 

[Phroobar]

Yes. As I said, I was comparing for how MY FAMILY would purchase tickets.

However, I went back and compared to a one day park hopper for the same week and DL only came out $20 more than Universal. Interesting.

Also no one spends three days at Universal Studios. Even Chinese tour groups don't do that. Also you can't make it a three day park hopper since Universal doesn't have another park. One day one park no line jumping is the best comparison.

 

[DrAlice]

Also no one spends three days at Universal Studios. Even Chinese tour groups don't do that. Also you can't make it a three day park hopper since Universal doesn't have another park. One day one park no line jumping is the best comparison.

???? That's what I just did in the message to which you just replied. DL is $20 more.

Have a good day.

 

[Disney Analyst]

???? That's what I just did in the message to which you just replied. DL is $20 more.

Have a good day.

When you think about it… USH being just $20 bucks less is pretty shocking when compared to Disneyland, which is one of the best theme parks in the world.

 

[DrAlice]

When you think about it… USH being just $20 bucks less is pretty shocking when compared to Disneyland, which is one of the best theme parks in the world.

Right?! That's what I thought.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I did some pricing checks on Universal vs. Disneyland. What I compared: the price per person per day for 1 day at Universal with Express pass vs. 3 day park hopper + Genie+ at DL. Disneyland came out cheaper ($165 per person per day vs. $289). If I add it a couple of ILL's to the price per day at DL, that could potentially push the per day price to $200 per day. That's closer to Universal, but still cheaper.

My thoughts:
* Yes, yes... I know.... comparing a 3-day ticket to a 1 day ticket is a bit apples & oranges. However, this is what I would likely be purchasing, so the cost comparison is relevant to this vacationer.
* Why is Universal so expensive? Isn't it still basically a half-day park of attractions?
* Why doesn't Disney just raise ticket prices and eliminate all the confusing add-ons??? They would still come out ahead in terms of price per day, and it would be a lot less confusing. It would also feel better than the current "nickle and dime you to death" system they have now.


Anyhoo, I found it interesting and thought I would share.

They raised prices a ton for Potter and now they have Super Nintendo World, so...I guess they figure it's license to print a little money.

But it's been like that for awhile and the park's plenty crowded now. I really enjoy USH, but I agree that it's not necessarily great value for the money. People harp on the second gates at Walt Disney World all the time for not having enough attractions, but it must be fine for USH apparently because hardly anyone ever complains about it there. The value proposition has swung decidedly in Universal's favor in Orlando, but in Hollywood? As much as the park's made strides, they're not really strictly adding a whole lot of capacity as they've built most of their new attractions as replacements rather than additions. And yes, they have space limitations, but so does Disneyland, which has thusfar done a better job of finding a way to make it all work.

Or maybe I'm still just bitter about Universal Hollywood getting rid of two good shows that they could easily rebuild elsewhere so that they can get a coaster. I mean, I'm looking forward to the coaster and all, but GUYS. It can't be THAT hard to just build another stage for the Special Effects show, right?!? I LIKED THOSE THINGS. <end rant>

I'm fine with Disney not raising their prices anymore than they are now. I want to say a one person five day hopper with Genie+ is $600 now as of the end of last year? That's more than enough IMO.

 

[DrAlice]

They raised prices a ton for Potter and now they have Super Nintendo World, so...I guess they figure it's license to print a little money.

But it's been like that for awhile and the park's plenty crowded now. I really enjoy USH, but I agree that it's not necessarily great value for the money. People harp on the second gates at Walt Disney World all the time for not having enough attractions, but it must be fine for USH apparently because hardly anyone ever complains about it there. The value proposition has swung decidedly in Universal's favor in Orlando, but in Hollywood? As much as the park's made strides, they're not really strictly adding a whole lot of capacity as they've built most of their new attractions as replacements rather than additions. And yes, they have space limitations, but so does Disneyland, which has thusfar done a better job of finding a way to make it all work.

Or maybe I'm still just bitter about Universal Hollywood getting rid of two good shows that they could easily rebuild elsewhere so that they can get a coaster. I mean, I'm looking forward to the coaster and all, but GUYS. It can't be THAT hard to just build another stage for the Special Effects show, right?!? I LIKED THOSE THINGS. <end rant>

I'm fine with Disney not raising their prices anymore than they are now. I want to say a one person five day hopper with Genie+ is $600 now as of the end of last year? That's more than enough IMO.

To be fair, I'm not advocating for higher prices at Disney either. I just meant that if they were going to charge me that amount anyway, I'd rather just pay it up front, instead of being hit with it later in several layers of "Genie lightning things". The current methods feel underhanded and sneaky, especially with the ILL's having variable pricing. I appreciated USH's approach of: "Here is the ticket price and here is the skip-the-line price. The end."

 

[DrAlice]

All of this came up because, for various reasons, I've been very lackadaisical about making summer vacation plans. I was checking prices to see if a trip down south was worth it this year. Survey says? Still deciding......

I haven't been to USH since I was a teenager, and I don't think my husband has ever been there. Since he and the kid are now Mario Kart junkies and the kid is now a fan of HP, USH has some appeal (I really just want to try the butter beer. ). She's also old enough now that she wouldn't be terrified of Jurassic World. I get sick on screen-based rides, so this park has never been a huge priority for us, but MAYBE there is enough now to justify checking it out. Maybe. Still deciding.

 

[truecoat]

All of this came up because, for various reasons, I've been very lackadaisical about making summer vacation plans. I was checking prices to see if a trip down south was worth it this year. Survey says? Still deciding......

I haven't been to USH since I was a teenager, and I don't think my husband has ever been there. Since he and the kid are now Mario Kart junkies and the kid is now a fan of HP, USH has some appeal (I really just want to try the butter beer. ). She's also old enough now that she wouldn't be terrified of Jurassic World. I get sick on screen-based rides, so this park has never been a huge priority for us, but MAYBE there is enough now to justify checking it out. Maybe. Still deciding.

Frozen Butter Beer for the win.

 

[TP2000]

It’s free, like using this website, you just have to make an account. Here’s the website:
https://chat.openai.com/auth/login


It costs the company behind it something like a million dollars a week to run, so the “GPT-4” version that was released last week that @waltography used costs $20 a month right now. But that’ll probably be free soon too.

Wow. While its still in its infancy as a tech, it's already impressive. I can only imagine at what level it will be at in 3 or 5 years. It's going to put some people out of business, that's for sure.

Disney's recent press releases and public statements are already puffery and pablum. It's meaningless drivel at this point, all about "immersive, relevant stories!" that an 8th grader given a list of approved words could write during lunch period.

This new tech seems completely up to the task of replacing quite a few humans who now write corporate crap for a sizable fee.

The Suffragettes where also a Tomorrowland mainstay. They are a very cool all girl band.

I loved The Suffragettes the few times I happened upon them at Tomorrowland Terrace in the mid 2010's! I've always been a sucker for a good Girl Group. They were spunky, fun, upbeat, and you could definitely dance to them. I had forgotten about them until you posted this.

Here they are predicting the future, doing Pat Benatar's Hit Me With Your Best Shot, that would be included as one of the songs in Mission:Breakout a few years later. And I love that they got the racy lyric "Before I put another notch in my lipstick case, you better make sure you put me in my place!" past the Disneyland censors (it's also in the Mission:Breakout ride soundtrack)

 

[Phroobar]

Wow. While its still in its infancy as a tech, it's already impressive. I can only imagine at what level it will be at in 3 or 5 years. It's going to put some people out of business, that's for sure.

Disney's recent press releases and public statements are already puffery and pablum. It's meaningless drivel at this point, all about "immersive, relevant stories!" that an 8th grader given a list of approved words could write during lunch period.

This new tech seems completely up to the task of replacing quite a few humans who now write corporate crap for a sizable fee.



I loved The Suffragettes the few times I happened upon them at Tomorrowland Terrace in the mid 2010's! I've always been a sucker for a good Girl Group. They were spunky, fun, upbeat, and you could definitely dance to them. I had forgotten about them until you posted this.

Here they are predicting the future, doing Pat Benatar's Hit Me With Your Best Shot, that would be included as one of the songs in Mission:Breakout a few years later. And I love that they got the racy lyric "Before I put another notch in my lipstick case, you better make sure you put me in my place!" past the Disneyland censors (it's also in the Mission:Breakout ride soundtrack)

Disney never really censored the rock band songs outside of profanity. Halyx, a band Disney formed, had a song called Jailbait that they wrote and performed nightly. "I want you but your jailbait." It was sung by the lead female singer. Disney was being inclusive even back then.

 

[Consumer]

Just came upon this concept art for a Disneyland expansion dating back to 1989. They look to predate Splash Mountain, although it's hard to tell. The website I found it on claims it's concept art for an early design of Westcot.

There's a lot here to take in, but what I find most fascinating is the new "grand entrance" intro Disneyland. Here you can see a long pathway extending from the hotels to the west and another from Harbor Blvd to the east, both meeting up at an elaborate hotel. Guests would then walk under the hotel and down a boulevard toward the train station.

You can also see here the early plans for a Hollywood Land expansion between Main Street USA and Tomorrowland, jettisoning out of the park into where current Hollywood Land sits. It appears to take a lot from MGM Studios with the Grauman's Chinese Theater entering into the Opera House (no more Lincoln?). There also appears to be a People Mover looping around a recreation of Echo Lake from MGM.

For a decade I've heard of plans for a Hollywood themed land located between Main Street USA and Tomorrowland, but this is the first time I've actually seen any concept art for it.

As for the rest, it's hard to really tell what's going on. Here you can see a few of the different pavilions (going clockwise) with the Eiffel Tower, a Bavarian (?) village, Big Ben, the Empire State Building and the Chrysler Building, the Golden Gate Bridge, a pirate ship, Ancient Rome (with a chariot race track), a Mayan (?) temple, St. Basil's Basilica, and Mount Fuji. Running through it all appears to the pathway that directs hotel guests to Disneyland Park, so I'm not sure how that would work.

There's definitely a lot to unpack in this concept art. There also appears to be some sort of water park in the current location of the Mickey and Friends and Pixar Pals parking garages. A lot of Westcot's Future World also looks to take over the Anaheim Convention Center.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting to see these very early ideas for expanding Disneyland into a full fledged resort and wanted to share.

 

[Phroobar]

That is so radically different from anything we ended up with.

 

[D.Silentu]

Gosh, I remember the fun and anticipation around the time that art must have been produced. It was described to me that they were bringing EPCOT over to our coast and I was elated. Turned out to be a strange journey watching that project devolve until finally I got to experience it at California Adventure on opening week.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Gosh, I remember the fun and anticipation around the time that art must have been produced. It was described to me that they were bringing EPCOT over to our coast and I was elated. Turned out to be a strange journey watching that project devolve until finally I got to experience it at California Adventure on opening week.

Listening to Tony talk about WESTcot in interviews really makes me wonder what could have been.

 

[TP2000]

That is so radically different from anything we ended up with.

Radical is an understatement.

It kind of makes you wonder what they were smoking out on the WDI lunch patio, doesn't it?

 

[TP2000]

It seems like every one of these auctions in the last 20 years has a skyway bucket come up. Are these the real Skyway Buckets or is someone manufacturing these?

I have to believe they are real. There were dozens of those things, after all. And it's kind of a unique and weird thing to recreate.

The system had dozens of buckets going back and forth at any one time. Plus I distinctly remember a huge storage bay behind the Tomorrowland station where they always had plenty of spares.

I can romanticize the past for Disneyland with the best of them, but I just sat and realized how ugly the Skyway stations were on their interiors. Especially Tomorrowland, which was all steel and concrete painted light blue but very banged up and dingy. At least that's how I remember it in my mind's eye. It wasn't glamorous or sleek, that's for sure.

 

[TP2000]

I've been of that opinion since they first started putting in the plastic grass. The water saving is minuscule compared to where they continue to consume vast amounts. This is pure cost-cutting.

I thought of this thread this past weekend as I was at a sociable getting to know some new neighbors. They have a 6th grade boy, and like a fool I tried to strike up a silly conversation with him about school. Assuming we'd go into discussing recess strategy and mean teachers, he instead began telling me about his latest enthusiasm for science. He described something called the "Penman" equation that he is using in a science project about weirs (!!!) to also determine evaporation from large bodies of water.

Thankfully his mom rescued me a few minutes into the conversation.

I Googled the Penman equation, and it's waaaaaaaay above my pay grade as I'm a math idiot. But what it boils down to is basically that one fourth of an inch of water evaporates per day off of a static body of water, big or small.

That means that the Paradise Bay Lagoon is losing approximately 23,000 gallons per day, or enough to fill an average backyard swimming pool. And that's on a day like today in Anaheim; calm winds, temp of 70, mid-strength sun at the Spring Equinox, humidity at 35%. On a 90 degree day in July with a breeze and humidity below 20%, the evaporation rate almost doubles.

What do you think the evaporative loss is for all of Disneyland's other bodies of water, especially around water falls and at water rides that inherently atomize thousands of gallons per water per minute? I did the equation that got me to 23,000 gallons per day of evaporative loss based on Google maps telling me that Paradise Bay Lagoon was approximately 150,000 square feet.

Paradise Bay Lagoon = 23,000 Gallons per day lost to evaporation (without World of Color factored in)
Rivers of America = ??? (without waterfalls or Fantasmic! factored in?)
Grizzly River Run = ???
Splash Mountain = ???
Jungle Cruise = ???
StorybookLand = ???
Submarine Voyage = ???
Matterhorn Bobsleds = ???

So, yeah, they aren't replacing small plots of grass with AstroTurf just to save on water. It's a cost cutting and labor savings move to save on gardener's salary and benefits packages.

Penman equation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org