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The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
I think the objection of some or even many white folks is that we as a group have limitations put on us of what is “acceptable speech” that people of color don’t have. So it’s really not the concepts or points that people are trying to make, it’s who is saying it. The free speech rules don’t apply equally to races in todays society and the media. I get it from a historical perspective and trying to right the wrongs - but let’s be real these aren’t about free speech/rights - it’s really about social justice and social engineering. I’m not so sure this is what really changes hearts and minds - but in the coming years and decades we are going to find out.

That probably isn't just limited to people of color, I'm sure there are terms that I could not use with hispanics for example but they use them in every day conversation. And it's not limited to race. I certainly could not call a gay man a "queen" (not that I ever would) yet the term is used frequently within the gay community towards each other. This also applies to music where there is no way I could sing certain rap songs that contain the n-word because I'm white. We've had this discussion here before...offensive is offensive and color of skin should not give you a pass though I've been told that I'm wrong here for thinking that way because races can say whatever they want to each other as the term has a different meeting within a race...I still call BS on that but I'm sure others here would agree to disagree.
That's because there are were and are quite a lot of derogatory words hurled at basically all non-white people (and non-straight people), often when they were *simply trying to exist,* on a regular basis. This was much more common when there were fewer platforms and opportunities for historically marginalized groups to truly fight these words and concepts. Now it is better, but still not fixed by any stretch (see: increasing rise of homophobia, among other forms of hatred). Now, many of those words have been reclaimed by groups that were originally hurt by them, and that's fine. It's typical in and out group stuff you likely already experience in your friend group and as seen in lots of media-it's ok if WE make fun of our good friend Steve being a klutz, but don't YOU dare do it because you're not with us. Same principle.

And there is no real equivalent of those heavy slurs for straight white people, but straight white people also weren't removed from their land, brought over as slaves or cheap labor, had laws passed against what they could/could not do without their consent or representation, etc as other groups were. It's not really a hard "limitation," if it is even that, to follow. Just don't use slurs. Most people shouldn't find that hard.

And, again, is the concept of social justice truly bad? I'm not talking about the term "social justice warrior" that has unfortunately become weaponized and tainted to mean specific things, but the very idea of social justice. And if it is, what does that say about our health as a society?
 

mlayton144

Well-Known Member
That's because there are were and are quite a lot of derogatory words hurled at basically all non-white people (and non-straight people), often when they were *simply trying to exist,* on a regular basis. This was much more common when there were fewer platforms and opportunities for historically marginalized groups to truly fight these words and concepts. Now it is better, but still not fixed by any stretch (see: increasing rise of homophobia, among other forms of hatred). Now, many of those words have been reclaimed by groups that were originally hurt by them, and that's fine. It's typical in and out group stuff you likely already experience in your friend group and as seen in lots of media-it's ok if WE make fun of our good friend Steve being a klutz, but don't YOU dare do it because you're not with us. Same principle.

And there is no real equivalent of those heavy slurs for straight white people, but straight white people also weren't removed from their land, brought over as slaves or cheap labor, had laws passed against what they could/could not do without their consent or representation, etc as other groups were. It's not really a hard "limitation," if it is even that, to follow. Just don't use slurs. Most people shouldn't find that hard.

And, again, is the concept of social justice truly bad? I'm not talking about the term "social justice warrior" that has unfortunately become weaponized and tainted to mean specific things, but the very idea of social justice. And if it is, what does that say about our health as a society?

I get it and yours and ravens comments are not the ones I object to or talking about. Social engineering can be good like programs that help disenfranchised groups relating to education and healthcare, etc.

But sometimes it goes too far - simple example is don’t “don’t judge a person based on their color”. Well if you were to turn on Joy Reid on MSNBC or many others of her ilk you will often hear terms like “another old white guy” to decribe someone - can you imagine that same comment directed to and about a person of color? Nowadays That term is weaponized and has specific meaning about what a person believes (racist) whether they do or not - does that help change hearts and minds or is it destructive? I can tell you that kind of talk is a big reason Donald trump (who I despise) has the power he has. Where is the outrage ?
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
I get it and yours and ravens comments are not the ones I object to or talking about. Social engineering can be good like programs that help disenfranchised groups relating to education and healthcare, etc.

But sometimes it goes too far - simple example is don’t “don’t judge a person based on their color”. Well if you were to turn on Joy Reid on MSNBC or many others of her ilk you will often hear terms like “another old white guy” to decribe someone - can you imagine that same comment directed to and about a person of color? Nowadays That term is weaponized and has specific meaning about what a person believes (racist) whether they do or not - does that help change hearts and minds or is it destructive? I can tell you that kind of talk is a big reason Donald trump (who I despise) has the power he has. Where is the outrage ?
Well, there are a lot of old white (and not just white, frankly, but those are generally the people that get the airtime on TV shows and in media) guys that have a lot of opinions that betray that their own life experience differs vastly from what many people in this country are currently experiencing, that they've had an experience that is relatively privileged and that their ignorance or lack of knowledge is showing. To me, this is different from ageism, which is a real problem directed towards older people, but the distinction I would make is that ageism is people failing to have their needs met by society; "another old white guy's" problems are not societal but are personal and deal with being aloof, having big blind spots, and assumptions that they are above it all.

As I said, it's not just white people who that gets directed to (the "ok boomer" sorts of comments are directed at the same basic age range of people but not used in a racial way), but since white people tend to hold more wealth than others, they tend to be named in that way because, well, they're more likely to fit the description.

To me it doesn't necessarily mean the person is racist, although the person certainly can be that-it more directly means that they are ignorant. Calling sheltered white people out for being ignorant does not, to me, have the same level of harm as calling marginalized people slurs, and if that term (another old white guy) has been weaponized, I have yet to have any exposure to it (then again, I can't particularly be called old by the standards of most, so perhaps I have been sheltered from that). I have, however, seen lots of basic attempts to be respectful of others and make basic changes be weaponized loudly and repeatedly (ex. "social justice warrior" "woke" "PC" etc) to try and stop them from going into effect. To me, there's no comparison here about what is actually being weaponized and what is perceived as being so.

If old white men can't handle being called old white men, imagine how difficult they'd find it to be a member of an actual marginalized community in this country, because frankly their experiences are not at all equivalent.
 

mlayton144

Well-Known Member
Well, there are a lot of old white (and not just white, frankly, but those are generally the people that get the airtime on TV shows and in media) guys that have a lot of opinions that betray that their own life experience differs vastly from what many people in this country are currently experiencing, that they've had an experience that is relatively privileged and that their ignorance or lack of knowledge is showing. To me, this is different from ageism, which is a real problem directed towards older people, but the distinction I would make is that ageism is people failing to have their needs met by society; "another old white guy's" problems are not societal but are personal and deal with being aloof, having big blind spots, and assumptions that they are above it all.

As I said, it's not just white people who that gets directed to (the "ok boomer" sorts of comments are directed at the same basic age range of people but not used in a racial way), but since white people tend to hold more wealth than others, they tend to be named in that way because, well, they're more likely to fit the description.

To me it doesn't necessarily mean the person is racist, although the person certainly can be that-it more directly means that they are ignorant. Calling sheltered white people out for being ignorant does not, to me, have the same level of harm as calling marginalized people slurs, and if that term (another old white guy) has been weaponized, I have yet to have any exposure to it (then again, I can't particularly be called old by the standards of most, so perhaps I have been sheltered from that). I have, however, seen lots of basic attempts to be respectful of others and make basic changes be weaponized loudly and repeatedly (ex. "social justice warrior" "woke" "PC" etc) to try and stop them from going into effect. To me, there's no comparison here about what is actually being weaponized and what is perceived as being so.

If old white men can't handle being called old white men, imagine how difficult they'd find it to be a member of an actual marginalized community in this country, because frankly their experiences are not at all equivalent.

This isn’t about hurt feelings - it’s about doing exactly the thing that you are condemning others for when throwing around generalizations . One set of rules for you , one for people of color, etc. You are feeding the beast
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I don't know if I should really share this, but here goes nothing: I have mentioned before that I grew up in poverty, score 10/10 on the CDC's ACE test, and that Disneyland was one of the few things about my childhood and my life that were even vaguely "normal." Disneyland was one of the few places in the world where I felt and was legitimately safe. Seeing the Disney parks as run down and as dirty as they are is legitimately (clinically, not flippantly) triggering. I know this is very hard for a lot of people to understand, and Twitter loves mocking stuff like this (must be nice to mock people's touchstones of safety from behind your phone screen in your gated apartment communities and your $15 dollar lattes, but I digress).
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I don't know if I should really share this, but here goes nothing: I have mentioned before that I grew up in poverty, score 10/10 on the CDC's ACE test, and that Disneyland was one of the few things about my childhood and my life that were even vaguely "normal." Disneyland was one of the few places in the world where I felt and was legitimately safe. Seeing the Disney parks as run down and as dirty as they are is legitimately (clinically, not flippantly) triggering. I know this is very hard for a lot of people to understand, and Twitter loves mocking stuff like this (must be nice to mock people's touchstones of safety from behind your phone screen in your gated apartment communities and your $15 dollar lattes, but I digress).

If your concern is safety, I don’t think Disneyland has ever been safer due to the little bubble they’ve created with all the security checkpoints. So I would take some comfort in that.
 

BuzzedPotatoHead89

Well-Known Member
If your concern is safety, I don’t think Disneyland has ever been safer due to the little bubble they’ve created with all the security checkpoints. So I would take some comfort in that.
In terms of security security safety, perhaps you’re right.

I will say to the extent we see declines by degrees across operations I would like to hope that it is all purely on a surface “show” level and that operationally we don’t fall into Pressler-level of cost cuttings that lead to other operational/safety issues.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
If your concern is safety, I don’t think Disneyland has ever been safer due to the little bubble they’ve created with all the security checkpoints. So I would take some comfort in that.
It definitely has that going for it. Although when I was there in 2019, there was a huge fight between two guests (involved a husband screaming his wife and calling her obscenities, and having to be held back from harming while threatening their son who clearly was unphased by this (it looked to me like this was business as usual), and the instigator was not removed from the park. I saw him for the rest of the day. It was awful. It has definitely tainted my view of the park and I still get nervous being in that part of the park 3 years later. Cherry on the cake was that this was on my birthday and his wife and I have the same name. I know that there is only so much that cast members can do, but I would had security escort him out. I still feel safer at Disney than I do most places and I appreciate that in today's climate they are as thorough at the checkpoints as they are.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
In terms of security security safety, perhaps you’re right.

I will say to the extent we see declines by degrees across operations I would like to hope that it is all purely on a surface “show” level and that operationally we don’t fall into Pressler-level of cost cuttings that lead to other operational/safety issues.
At least they did kick out that woman with the cup incident. o_O
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
In terms of security security safety, perhaps you’re right.

I will say to the extent we see declines by degrees across operations I would like to hope that it is all purely on a surface “show” level and that operationally we don’t fall into Pressler-level of cost cuttings that lead to other operational/safety issues.

Let’s hope so. I don’t think they ll ever get to those levels of negligence again.
 

egg

Well-Known Member
I was watching The Boys (GREAT show) and there’s a bizarre reference to a Disney park.
One of the boys wants to quit and the other character says “Just what? off to Epcot? The Hamptons?” It’s so random. I’ve heard the castle parks mentioned flippantly like this but not Epcot!
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
So, if anyone is gonna be at the parks August 6th to the 10th, I am gonna be doing a little art drop give away. I figure since the trip is for my birthday and this will, again, probably be my last-ever trip to Disneyland, that I wanted to leave little gifts throughout the park as my bittersweet goodbye to something I love so much. This is just small handful of them. I have about 10, but I wanna do a couple more. Maybe it's because I don't want to let go, but these sure are fun.

1655484009644.png

(Also, I know I gotta vacuum, lol don't @ me)
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So, if anyone is gonna be at the parks August 6th to the 10th, I am gonna be doing a little art drop give away. I figure since the trip is for my birthday and this will, again, probably be my last-ever trip to Disneyland, that I wanted to leave little gifts throughout the park as my bittersweet goodbye to something I love so much. This is just small handful of them. I have about 10, but I wanna do a couple more. Maybe it's because I don't want to let go, but these sure are fun.

View attachment 646608
(Also, I know I gotta vacuum, lol don't @ me)

Those are nice!! What days are the Roger and Elliot giveaways?
 

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