The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[Parteecia]

I agree with you 99.9% of the way. Basic human decency should be the norm, but we all know it's not.

I just have an issue with the idea that throwing "more money" at problems is the best way to create a solution. How much is enough? How much would you need to make as a frontline CM in order for the job to be "worth it"? Would you accept a one million dollar a year salary if it meant that once a week someone got to spit on you at work?

I don't think that more money is as important as is the way employees are treated. Plenty of people stay in lower paying jobs that make them happy.

 

[el_super]

I don't think anyone is asking for Disney to lower their standards.

Standards are subjective and presenting them this way is too simplistic. Allowing Cast Members to present a gender identity isn't a standard being lowered, but that hasn't stopped some from presenting it as such.

Same goes the other way though: if a CM wants a guest ejected from the park for not following a mask mandate without warning, are the managers obilged to follow through?

 

[PiratesMansion]

I agree with you 99.9% of the way. Basic human decency should be the norm, but we all know it's not.

I just have an issue with the idea that throwing "more money" at problems is the best way to create a solution. How much is enough? How much would you need to make as a frontline CM in order for the job to be "worth it"? Would you accept a one million dollar a year salary if it meant that once a week someone got to spit on you at work?

I mean, wages have been largely stagnant for decades while all other costs and expectations continue to grow (in the country in general, not just within Disney itself). But Disney is one of the richest companies in the world, so it's not as if they don't have the means.

I haven't worked for them, so I can't say what the magic number would be. But it's absurd that one of the wealthiest companies can have some employees that are basically homeless. They can and should do better (maybe cut Chapek's salary a bit if they're not sure where to start...)

It's not the only thing that could or should be done, but good compensation always helps. Always.

Standards are subjective and presenting them this way is too simplistic. Allowing Cast Members to present a gender identity isn't a standard being lowered, but that hasn't stopped some from presenting it as such.

Same goes the other way though: if a CM wants a guest ejected from the park for not following a mask mandate without warning, are the managers obilged to follow through?

Did I ever say or imply that CMs can't or shouldn't present a gender identity? Don't put words in my mouth.

They have decades and decades of successful customer service practices and standards to pull from that are well-established, that people have written books about. Are you saying that Disney should throw all of them out because people with non-traditional gender identities weren't recognized in 1955 and therefore every single thing from that era was indisputably bad and wrong and should be thrown out? Because that just might be a little ridiculous on your end.

Obviously there's a difference between defending your employees in general and defending one employee that is potentially on a power trip. Not sure why that needs to be spelled out.

 

[Mac Tonight]

I mean, wages have been largely stagnant for decades while all other costs and expectations continue to grow (in the country in general, not just within Disney itself). But Disney is one of the richest companies in the world, so it's not as if they don't have the means.

I haven't worked for them, so I can't say what the magic number would be. But it's absurd that one of the wealthiest companies can have some employees that are basically homeless. They can and should do better (maybe cut Chapek's salary a bit if they're not sure where to start...)

It's not the only thing that could or should be done, but good compensation always helps. Always.

Chapek's salary is definitely wasted money

 

[Dear Prudence]

Me: this is my last ever trip to the US parks
Also me, a week after my Disneyland trip: I need to go back, RIGHT NOW.

 

[Parteecia]

Ok, here's my starter list for improving cast member morale

-Decent pay
-Revert employee cafeterias to being supplied by restaurant kitchens
-More say in their scheduling
-More opportunities and encouragement to create magic for guests
-Back to costumes taken care of by Disney
-Fewer hard and fast rules, more managerial discretion
-More support from management
-More sincere appreciation from the company (how, I don't know)
-Somehow magically retrain all supervisors to respect and trust their employees until shown they can't

 

[Disney Irish]

Ok, here's my starter list for improving cast member morale

-Decent pay
-Revert employee cafeterias to being supplied by restaurant kitchens
-More say in their scheduling
-More opportunities and encouragement to create magic for guests
-Back to costumes taken care of by Disney
-Fewer hard and fast rules, more managerial discretion
-More support from management
-More sincere appreciation from the company (how, I don't know)
-Somehow magically retrain all supervisors to respect and trust their employees until shown they can't

Sounds good, bring it up at the next union meeting or to your shop steward.

 

[Rich T]

... But again, their name isn't synonymous with high-quality for no reason.

Their name is rapidly losing it’s connection with the concept “high-quality.”

On its current trajectory “Disney” is becoming synonymous with “overpriced,” “creatively bankrupt,” “hypocritical” and “run by potato-heads.”

I agree, though, that tough employee standards are a good thing... As long as those employees are well-paid for the work they do.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Their name is rapidly losing it’s connection with the concept “high-quality.”

On its current trajectory “Disney” is becoming synonymous with “overpriced,” “creatively bankrupt,” “hypocritical” and “run by potato-heads.”

I agree, though, that tough employee standards are a good thing... As long as those empolyees are well-paid for the work they do.

To us, yes.

I don't even necessarily disagree with you, but I think we often project our feelings of Disney onto the entire fanbase. Remember, we're a small small minority of park fans (most of us anyway), who prefer to vocalize our displeasures in the echo chamber of this forum. Sometimes it's good to get some perspective and remind ourselves that even if we made up 11% of Disney fans overall, that still leaves 89% that thinks they're doing a swell job.

 

[el_super]

Did I ever say or imply that CMs can't or shouldn't present a gender identity? Don't put words in my mouth.

Didnt mean to imply that you did... Just trying to provide am example where standards may not align and cause friction between CMs and management/guests.

therefore every single thing from that era was indisputably bad and wrong and should be thrown out? Because that just might be a little ridiculous on your end.

All of them?? Maybe not. A lot of them? Yes.

Obviously there's a difference between defending your employees in general and defending one employee that is potentially on a power trip. Not sure why that needs to be spelled out.

Because it is not that simple. It's easy to say that managers need to back their employees, but does that mean taking their word for it 100% of the time? 80% of the time? Should a CM have a certain number of passes to have someone banned for life?

How do you make the determination that a CM is not on a power trip? Being petty, vindictive or just frustrated? Guest service almost universally requires that CMs and managers take the side of the guest, so when those come into conflict, who wins?

For what it's worth though, I have seen this work the other way too: the manager that profusely apologizes to a guest for a CMs behavior, only to turn to the CM later and say "don't worry about it."

 

[el_super]

Ok, here's my starter list for improving cast member morale

I'm certainly not trying to pick on you but a couple of points here to show how these are far more complicated than most understand.

Prior to Sodexo being brought in to manage the cafeterias, Disney fully managed them. They branded them together in something called "StarzDiners" and offered in-park food with a reduced price and reduced portion size. It served a duel purpose: feeding CMs and also providing them with park food that they could then help advise guests on. That was seen as a path to providing superior guest service. Cast members hated it. They wanted more options and for years asked for more outside options. Sodexo came in and offered to provide more "options" than just park food, and setup a Subway backstage (and later a Starbucks).

Cast Members seemed to hate that too.

There comes a point where you find out you cant please everyone no matter what you do. If they had put a McDonalds backstage, I'm sure some would be happy and some would hate it. Probably more would learn to hate it once they'd had McDonalds every day for a couple months.

There are other things too... Like taking the costumes home, that were supported and preferred by the CMs and the unions. Asking CMs to show up to work early, wait in line for a costume and change on site was NOT what the majority of CMs wanted. To date they are still paid the walk time in order to change with no mandate to do so on property. And costuming of course will still care for and launder garments, but CMs prefer to wash at home to maintain "ownership."

All this and we haven't even got into how the unions themselves purposefully negotiated down pay and scheduling benefits for new hires in order to maintain benefits for the people with higher seniority. There are CMs working in attractions that are getting 5 weeks off a year and $30+ dollars an hour, while some are definitely not.

 

[Parteecia]

I'm certainly not trying to pick on you but a couple of points here to show how these are far more complicated than most understand.

Prior to Sodexo being brought in to manage the cafeterias, Disney fully managed them. They branded them together in something called "StarzDiners" and offered in-park food with a reduced price and reduced portion size. It served a duel purpose: feeding CMs and also providing them with park food that they could then help advise guests on. That was seen as a path to providing superior guest service. Cast members hated it. They wanted more options and for years asked for more outside options. Sodexo came in and offered to provide more "options" than just park food, and setup a Subway backstage (and later a Starbucks).

Cast Members seemed to hate that too.

There comes a point where you find out you cant please everyone no matter what you do. If they had put a McDonalds backstage, I'm sure some would be happy and some would hate it. Probably more would learn to hate it once they'd had McDonalds every day for a couple months.

There are other things too... Like taking the costumes home, that were supported and preferred by the CMs and the unions. Asking CMs to show up to work early, wait in line for a costume and change on site was NOT what the majority of CMs wanted. To date they are still paid the walk time in order to change with no mandate to do so on property. And costuming of course will still care for and launder garments, but CMs prefer to wash at home to maintain "ownership."

All this and we haven't even got into how the unions themselves purposefully negotiated down pay and scheduling benefits for new hires in order to maintain benefits for the people with higher seniority. There are CMs working in attractions that are getting 5 weeks off a year and $30+ dollars an hour, while some are definitely not.

Yes, I will happily admit that many of my suggestions are from my days there. I think keeping the costumes onsite helps professionalize the job and divide it from regular life. And I doubt they'd do it but the costumes could be more elaborate again.

I'm sure it's also a generational thing. We liked having park choices for our meals, especially if the Pit had items from the Blue Bayou or Tahitian Terrace menus.

There was always a union difference. Attractions had much better breaks but Foods got a longer lunch and bigger discount. And we got sold out by our union reps too.

 

[Parteecia]

To elaborate, I'm not about giving cast members everything they want. I'm looking for a way to improve the general atmosphere and get employees to correspondingly elevate their performance.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I'm certainly not trying to pick on you but a couple of points here to show how these are far more complicated than most understand.

Prior to Sodexo being brought in to manage the cafeterias, Disney fully managed them. They branded them together in something called "StarzDiners" and offered in-park food with a reduced price and reduced portion size. It served a duel purpose: feeding CMs and also providing them with park food that they could then help advise guests on. That was seen as a path to providing superior guest service. Cast members hated it. They wanted more options and for years asked for more outside options. Sodexo came in and offered to provide more "options" than just park food, and setup a Subway backstage (and later a Starbucks).

Cast Members seemed to hate that too.

There comes a point where you find out you cant please everyone no matter what you do. If they had put a McDonalds backstage, I'm sure some would be happy and some would hate it. Probably more would learn to hate it once they'd had McDonalds every day for a couple months.

There are other things too... Like taking the costumes home, that were supported and preferred by the CMs and the unions. Asking CMs to show up to work early, wait in line for a costume and change on site was NOT what the majority of CMs wanted. To date they are still paid the walk time in order to change with no mandate to do so on property. And costuming of course will still care for and launder garments, but CMs prefer to wash at home to maintain "ownership."

All this and we haven't even got into how the unions themselves purposefully negotiated down pay and scheduling benefits for new hires in order to maintain benefits for the people with higher seniority. There are CMs working in attractions that are getting 5 weeks off a year and $30+ dollars an hour, while some are definitely not.

So basically these changes that might make things better are hard, and no one will agree anyway, so we shouldn't even bother trying?

You sure talk like you have a lot of superior knowledge that no one else here, including many who have worked at or know people who work at the parks, could possibly understand. If that's not your intention, then, as I've said before, your tone needs work.

 

[el_super]

So basically these changes that might make things better are hard, and no one will agree anyway, so we shouldn't even bother trying?

You're not even in a position to TRY anything. Unless you're in Disney management, or actively engaged with the cast unions, what value is there to any of these discussions? Other than offering empty platitudes of helping Cast Members feel more valued, while also displaying a clear a lack of any knowledge of the actual situation on the ground.

It doesn't take any superior knowledge to just think through some scenarios and try to understand the complexities of a situation. I only want to offer some additional perspective and remind everyone that sometimes what the cast want is at odds with what the guests want, so it's not as black and white as some want to pretend it is.

But if you want to just keep pushing good feelings as the solution and never see anything change... Have at it.

 

[PiratesMansion]

You're not even in a position to TRY anything. Unless you're in Disney management, or actively engaged with the cast unions, what value is there to any of these discussions? Other than offering empty platitudes of helping Cast Members feel more valued, while also displaying a clear a lack of any knowledge of the actual situation on the ground.

It doesn't take any superior knowledge to just think through some scenarios and try to understand the complexities of a situation. I only want to offer some additional perspective and remind everyone that sometimes what the cast want is at odds with what the guests want, so it's not as black and white as some want to pretend it is.

But if you want to just keep pushing good feelings as the solution and never see anything change... Have at it.

If you think I was just offering meaningless 'good feelings' discourse, you clearly didn't read a word I or others here actually wrote. And you are doing nothing to disprove what I said in regards to your tone.

 

[DrAlice]

People have had it with employers that take them for granted and don't compensate them appropriately for the standards they expect them to uphold/things they're expected to do and deal with. Years of low pay and hostile environments/bad treatment are catching up to lots of businesses now, not just Disney.

*cough* education *cough* '

 

[truecoat]

Was Epcot this bad?

Lol, no. I was there about 10 min after opening. Walked on Soarin twice, walked on every ride all day long except Frozen which was 35 min. Did Test Track at 5:30 and it was a walk on. Stayed all day and did two laps around the world showcase. Harmonious? Cool fireworks and show, no theme, no heart.

I actually heard a woman after exiting the park telling her family she liked Illuminations better.

 

[Dear Prudence]

So basically these changes that might make things better are hard, and no one will agree anyway, so we shouldn't even bother trying?

You sure talk like you have a lot of superior knowledge that no one else here, including many who have worked at or know people who work at the parks, could possibly understand. If that's not your intention, then, as I've said before, your tone needs work.

They act like they're not on the same Disney forum as the rest of us

 

[Dear Prudence]

Does anyone know anything about the Halloween Tree in Frontier Land? I know Ray Bradbury loved Disneyland, so I'd hope it was a reference to him. Something Wicked This Way Comes is one of my all time fave live action Disney movies.(he also wrote the screen play )