The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I think Disney customer service is the pits now, period. I think regardless of CMs at the parks, even when we were trying to make ticket reservations and adjust them, was terrible. You couldn't even get a live person on the phone half of the time. We were told 4 different things. Thankfully, I had take screen caps of everything, and we got it all sorted out, but this was the worst experience I had ever had from them. I don't think it's the CMs fault, I think the new management is garbage.
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
I didn’t make that comment to excuse CM behavior, but to explain what could possibly be going on with CMs. Also, do you work in customer service, serving hundreds of people per day? That should be taken into account here. If CMs are struggling, they should be actively looking for other work and quit when they find it though.

I wouldn’t say the pay is competitive at all, unless the current pay rates have skyrocketed since I was a CM ten years ago. I don’t keep up with current rates and it’s entirely possible that I would find them competitive now. I was making I believe $9 an hour in 2011.

I don’t think it’s shortsighted, given that I know and have come across dozens of people who work or used to work for Disney in various capacities other than Disneyland and have mostly all shared very similar negative experiences working for the company. At that point, it’s not a coincidence, it’s not just a direct management problem, and something is wrong. It wouldn’t hurt Disney to reconstruct their business practices that would trickle down to better management, one that doesn’t want to make your employees hate coming to work, give them anxiety, etc.

Disney definitely sees to it that their CMs get good customer service training. At least when I was there. However, I would argue that it becomes ineffective when it becomes micro-managed (a supervisor constantly coming up to the CM to tell them to smile, for example) and when the CMs’ own well-being isn’t taken into consideration (had a co-worker who was slapped by a guest and management did pretty much nothing about it). I worked at Universal as well and not only was I trained on good customer service there, but they emphasized that team members’ well-being shouldn’t be compromised for it. Because of that, I was never anxious on the job, was better at my job, and was overall happier. In turn, the guests were happier and more pleasant. I felt that Disney expected near perfection from us and I remember some of my other co-workers expressing the same sentiments.

The Main Gate pass is a nice incentive, but personally, it’s not enough to put up with an unhealthy work environment. For the CM that has no problems at all with work and loves the parks, it’s an excellent incentive and well worth it. It depends on the person, for sure.

As a graduate student, I supervised a group of undergraduate English tutors for the writing center on campus. I of course emphasized that the students who sought out our services needed to be treated with great service and helped in the best ways possible, but I never let that compromise my tutors. The work environment was both professional and pleasant. I never let students disrespect my tutors and stuck up for them. I actually listened to the problems my tutors brought to me, gave them time off when they needed, never once scheduled them for work on days they requested not to work (unlike Disney), and made myself available. In turn, my tutors were happy to come in to work, sometimes on their days off, and our students were always pleased with the tutoring. We even got compliments from upper management on how good of a job we were doing. It’s basic and common knowledge that a professional, but pleasant and healthy work environment breeds happier employees and in turn, better results.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that some of you are noticing poor CM service. I agree with you that customer service is not for everyone, and I’ll repeat that any CM who isn’t pleased with their job should actively be looking for other work and should quit as soon as they find it. Guests do matter and they do notice things. They shouldn’t be subjected to poor service simply because CMs are unhappy or are having bad days. But I stand by what I said about the company as a whole. Some things need to change.

I also agree with you that a career with Disney can lead to some wonderful future opportunities. I can and always also acknowledge that my experience working for Disney is solely mine. My uncle was head of security for the Walt Disney Studios for decades. He hated it and complained about the same things I did, and he warned me about working for the company years before I joined it. But he always told me that I needed to have my own experience and see for myself, and I’m glad I did. I do the same in return. I never discourage people from pursuing work with Disney, if that’s what they truly want. I tell them to make the best of their time with the company and I hope they have a much better time than I did.
It's so depressing to hear how it is now. Back in the '70s it was a great first-ish real job learning experience and we often signed ourselves right back in after work to play. It helped that I had a great lead and when I became a lead I tried to pass on his lessons and fiercely protected my people. I ordered managers out of my kitchen more than once and told them that no one could scold my workers except me.

I remember that everyone I knew took pride in being Disney cast members, including quite a few rich kids who worked there because they wanted to. I only left because I couldn't afford to stay.

I also recall that the employee cafeterias had the same food as the guest restaurants, only a lot cheaper. The menu depended on what its attached kitchen offered. Most unattached restaurants also had an employee special.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
It's so depressing to hear how it is now. Back in the '70s it was a great first-ish real job learning experience and we often signed ourselves right back in after work to play. It helped that I had a great lead and when I became a lead I tried to pass on his lessons and fiercely protected my people. I ordered managers out of my kitchen more than once and told them that no one could scold my workers except me.

I remember that everyone I knew took pride in being Disney cast members, including quite a few rich kids who worked there because they wanted to. I only left because I couldn't afford to stay.

I also recall that the employee cafeterias had the same food as the guest restaurants, only a lot cheaper. The menu depended on what its attached kitchen offered. Most unattached restaurants also had an employee special.
I used to also sign myself back in to hang out with my friends after a shift. This happened in the beginning. As time passed, not only did I dread going to work, but I didn’t even want to be at the parks during my free time. I remember begging people for their guest operations shifts because it was nearly 100% stress-free. I didn’t have to worry about guest safety, rude and mean guests, nor my uppity and annoying management when I had those shifts. Breaks and lunches were at least two hours long. My supervisors for those shifts didn’t know me and my duties were to basically walk around Main Street and talk to guests until the parade and fireworks started. After that, we had to guide guests through the park and walkways, which was easy. I loved doing those shifts.

It took me over a year to return to the parks as a guest after I left my job as a CM. I hope some things change.
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
I used to also sign myself back in to hang out with my friends after a shift. This happened in the beginning. As time passed, not only did I dread going to work, but I didn’t even want to be at the parks during my free time. I remember begging people for their guest operations shifts because it was nearly 100% stress-free. I didn’t have to worry about guest safety, rude and mean guests, nor my uppity and annoying management when I had those shifts. Breaks and lunches were at least two hours long. My supervisors for those shifts didn’t know me and my duties were to basically walk around Main Street and talk to guests until the parade and fireworks started. After that, we had to guide guests through the park and walkways, which was easy. I loved doing those shifts.

It took me over a year to return to the parks as a guest after I left my job as a CM. I hope some things change.
I understand that. One friend managed to get assigned to what was then called parade Guest Control for the summer and had a great time. Beat dealing with guests in impossibly long lines for Space Mountain during its opening summer.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
It wouldn’t hurt Disney to reconstruct their business practices that would trickle down to better management, one that doesn’t want to make your employees hate coming to work, give them anxiety, etc.

How would they restructure their business practices that would solve both problems? Cast retention and guest satisfaction?

The two sides are completely at odds with each other.

Frustration amongst Cast Members tends to start at the basic Smile More, Talk Less. They resent being constantly told that they need to smile, make eye contact, talk more with guests, talk less with their friends, keep their cell phones in a locker and keep their uniforms in good condition and properly fitting.

You could ease up on that, but you have people in this thread insisting that a lack of smiling CMs is a sure sign of faltering guest service. You can have CMs complain that mangers don't back them up when it comes to enforcing policies, and have guests that are complaining that CMs are too strict on enforcing mask rules.

You have a relaxing of Disney look standards to allow for more cast flexibility and the right to express themselves, met with calls of slipping standards from guests.

So if you have to choose between cast retention and guest satisfaction, which one do you choose?
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
I have no energy to be mad at it; I'm honestly just sad that so much money was poured into a show that (for me anyway) has kind of bombed. I don't know how long it'll take for Disney to suck up their hubris and fix the show, but I really hope they do so at some point.

I think I'm with you on this. I have no real energy to be mad at their entertainment choices at WDW. I don't think the shows are really bad ... just predictable and formulaic. Time will tell if the problem is really the show(s) themselves or my expectations for them. There's always a chance that they find an audience somewhere.
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
How would they restructure their business practices that would solve both problems? Cast retention and guest satisfaction?

The two sides are completely at odds with each other.

Frustration amongst Cast Members tends to start at the basic Smile More, Talk Less. They resent being constantly told that they need to smile, make eye contact, talk more with guests, talk less with their friends, keep their cell phones in a locker and keep their uniforms in good condition and properly fitting.

You could ease up on that, but you have people in this thread insisting that a lack of smiling CMs is a sure sign of faltering guest service. You can have CMs complain that mangers don't back them up when it comes to enforcing policies, and have guests that are complaining that CMs are too strict on enforcing mask rules.

You have a relaxing of Disney look standards to allow for more cast flexibility and the right to express themselves, met with calls of slipping standards from guests.

So if you have to choose between cast retention and guest satisfaction, which one do you choose?
If there was a way to instill pride in their work you could have both. Treat your employees like good people and it will be reflected in how they treat guests. Throughout my working career I've had bosses I would do anything for and others where I'm ashamed to say I did the bare minimum.

Back to my olden days stories: we were so invested in working there that even when we were off duty playing in the park we would pick up trash and respectfully assist guests.
 
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Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
If there was a way to instill pride in their work you could have both. Treat your employees like good people and it will be reflected in how they treat guests.

Back to my olden days stories: we were so invested in working there that even when we were off duty playing in the park we would pick up trash and respectfully assist guests.
Exactly. As stated previously, my tutors would come in on their days off to assist with students or just hang around.

Happier employees are more likely to to produce better results.
 

Mac Tonight

Well-Known Member
Frustration amongst Cast Members tends to start at the basic Smile More, Talk Less. They resent being constantly told that they need to smile, make eye contact, talk more with guests, talk less with their friends, keep their cell phones in a locker and keep their uniforms in good condition and properly fitting.
Seriously? They "resent" being asked to do what should amount to the bare minimum that their job requires?

Has work ethic in 2021 really degraded itself so badly now that we can't (or shouldn't) expect people to show up and do their jobs, fully committed, unless their own personal "self-expression" is allowed to seep through? How a person acts reveals way more about their character than being able to finally show some tattoos or wear that iridescent nail polish.

It's no wonder the world looks down on millennials.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. I gave my own personal example with my undergraduate tutors.

Yeah, but I asked what you would change at Disneyland.

And ignoring that there isn't a push-pull effect between enforcing standards and employee rentention isn't wise. In some instances they really are mutually exclusive, especially so when things like benefits and pay are removed from the equation.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
It's no wonder the world looks down on millennials.

This is not an issue unique to millennials. People have long complained that Disney's service standards were harsh on their Cast Members and burnout was frequent, even in the 1980s. Let's not forget that things got so bad the Cast Members actually went on strike before Eisner came in.

It isn't so much that people be expected to "do their job" but more that Cast Members are expected to do so much more than any other job.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
People have had it with employers that take them for granted and don't compensate them appropriately for the standards they expect them to uphold/things they're expected to do and deal with. Years of low pay and hostile environments/bad treatment are catching up to lots of businesses now, not just Disney.

The places I've been to this year that have dramatically increased wages (ex. Cedar Point, Kings Island) have consistently had great employees. It's no wonder to me why.

In other "modern Disney fails at life" news, WDW is 0/2 on new nighttime spectaculars. Feedback on the new fireworks show is equal to or worse than the feedback for Harmonius. Maybe they should have just fixed the place up a la Disneyland's 50th instead.
 

Mac Tonight

Well-Known Member
This is not an issue unique to millennials. People have long complained that Disney's service standards were harsh on their Cast Members and burnout was frequent, even in the 1980s. Let's not forget that things got so bad the Cast Members actually went on strike before Eisner came in.

It isn't so much that people be expected to "do their job" but more that Cast Members are expected to do so much more than any other job.
And frankly, there's nothing wrong with that.

I'll be the first to admit, working at Disney is not for everyone. But that doesn't mean it's on Disney to relax their own standards to suit their various cast members. Disney didn't get where it is today, becoming the customer service "standard" for a lot of people and businesses to emulate, because they just let people look and act the way they wanted to to ensure they were always comfortable.

Are Disney standards "too harsh"? That's up to the individual. But again, their name isn't synonymous with high-quality for no reason.
 

BuzzedPotatoHead89

Well-Known Member
If there was a way to instill pride in their work you could have both. Treat your employees like good people and it will be reflected in how they treat guests. Throughout my working career I've had bosses I would do anything for and others where I'm ashamed to say I did the bare minimum.

Back to my olden days stories: we were so invested in working there that even when we were off duty playing in the park we would pick up trash and respectfully assist guests.
This. This isn’t an issue of millennials or even perceived dated employee standards. This issue is a continuing deterioration of basic standards of respect and decency toward others, which has been further accelerated ironically by social media, a declining corporate culture that rewards cutting employee perks if it bumps the Q balance sheet, and really our body politic and institutions writ large for allowing an self-interested/entitlement mindset to permeate our culture, but this is a larger debate.

If the 20th century was defined by JFK’s “ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country…”, the 21st has been defined by “Karen to thy heart’s content”. The golden rule of treating others how you wanted to be treated is largely ignored in exchange for a radical individualist mindset and I don’t blame CMs for sometimes feeling like they deserve hazard pay for putting up with today’s guest expectations.

On the issue of employees, if given a choice I’m sure most would take an increase in pay to help feed their family over an opportunity to show their tattoos any day. But one option costs TWDC nothing and allows the board to promote themselves as an “inclusive” brand.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Are Disney standards "too harsh"? That's up to the individual. But again, their name isn't synonymous with high-quality for no reason.

The perfection culture of the company needs to change first.


This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I will admit that higher wages would certainly help convince people to put up with higher standards, but there are some things (like dress code/gender acceptance/vaccine requirements) that can't be waved away with just higher pay.

Paying CMs more though, would of course, get passed down to the visitors and if they aren't willing to pay the higher prices then... Well you are left with where we are now.
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone is asking for Disney to lower their standards. Just pay more, treat workers better, and have their employees' backs when guests treat them like trash.

Basic, basic stuff that really shouldn't have to be spelled out.
Exactly. As a lead I had no control over pay but I defended my crew from everyone and told them that as long as their job was done well and they didn't get me in trouble they could do whatever they wanted (but heaven help them if they screwed that up). When people were signing up my shifts filled first.
 

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