The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

George Lucas on a Bench

Well-Known Member
It's a decent series to throw on before hitting the sack, but I'm not a rabid fan. It feels closer to the spirit of the SW movies while telling a different type of story that doesn't focus on stock heroes, nostalgic cameos while doing more or less the same thing but crappier, now with added diversity. The Disney SW feels like a series of knockoffs, but Mandalorian feels more like the genuine article, and they did it in an interesting way, unlike the the rest of the Disney SW movies. The only comparable thing they've done is Rogue One, which was so boring it put me to sleep. I at least stayed awake for the bounty hunter show.
 

SplashGhost

Well-Known Member
Silver Bullet is the only coaster with a decent capacity at Knott's, and the only one other than Ghostrider that has a decent length to it. I know it doesn't really fit where it is, but it is a necessary attraction for the park.

Pony Express on the other hand is horrible and the restraints hurt my back.

About the The Mandalorian, I loved the first season, but was highly disappointed with the Season 2 premiere. I felt it was the worst episode in the series other than The Gunslinger. I think some people are overrating this episode because of fan service.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Silver Bullet is the only coaster with a decent capacity at Knott's, and the only one other than Ghostrider that has a decent length to it. I know it doesn't really fit where it is, but it is a necessary attraction for the park.

Pony Express on the other hand is horrible and the restraints hurt my back.

About the The Mandalorian, I loved the first season, but was highly disappointed with the Season 2 premiere. I felt it was the worst episode in the series other than The Gunslinger. I think some people are overrating this episode because of fan service.


I like the show. I’m not in love with it. I don’t like that the formula is getting a bit repetitive. Mando goes on mission and has to trade his service to get what he wants.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
As best I can tell. 'Good' Star Wars is all about name dropping and easter eggs for fan service. As long as you keep referencing the same old obscure characters from the 1980s, you're golden.

The worst part of Star Wars that I will never understand, is how they keep ending up back on Tatooine. A planet that was created for the sole purpose of being the forgotten, farthest outpost in the galaxy, is literally the only planet where anything noteworthy happens in this universe.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The biggest problem with Galaxy’s Edge—and the reason it leaves so many fans cold—is that Disney foolishly decided to Jettison all familiar, well-loved characters and places ftom the 80’s and build it around a newly made-up place that no one has any attachment to. Imagine if Universal had built Potter World and, instead of Hogwarts, created something like Clyde Rumptypoo’s University of Hocus Pocus.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
I really like the colonial America-to-wild west transition (Passport2Dreams having sufficiently convinced me of its brilliance) and the way that it moves seamlessly together, in a way that is more logical than the DL equivalent (which is charming, organic, and special in its own right but done very differently). Splash mucks it up somewhat, but compensates by being a superior version of the attraction. The original CBJ adds a lot to the area to me personally. It all just feels more refined and distinctive to me vs. DL's original. It's probably my favorite of the MK lands.

I grew up with the DL version, so I'm sure there some bias here, but the way it's been laid out at WDW doesn't make much sense to me. The riverboat landing is in liberty square, but thematically, the steam ship is out of place. The Columbia would have been a much better fit here but was strangely omitted in favor of a Mississippi stern wheeler, in an area that doesn't have much Mississippi influence and even (to the point of swaping NOS for Liberty Square) seems to be actively avoiding it.

The Country Bears were an opening day attraction (IIRC), and yet cartoon singing bears wasn't really the point of the original Frontierland at Disneyland and breaks the realism. So by the time they came to building Frontierland in Florida, the concept was already pretty much spent.


Knott's still runs the stage coaches.

I'm glad to hear that. I know they have some issues with them tipping over. I guess it just adds to the realism though.


Pony Express on the other hand is horrible and the restraints hurt my back.

I've done Pony Express at Knott's and I 've done TRON in Shanghai, and didn't see the point to either one. I don't know why people would think it's fun to basically be forced into a position where you are looking down and straining your neck to look forward. Other than the novelty of the seating position, the ride experience is pretty mediocre (especially so for Pony Express). It's a pretty tame 'kiddie' coaster layout for something that has a 48" height requirement.


About the The Mandalorian, I loved the first season, but was highly disappointed with the Season 2 premiere. I felt it was the worst episode in the series other than The Gunslinger. I think some people are overrating this episode because of fan service.

The fan service is getting to be too much. Other than that, it was a decent episode and harkens back to the old days of TV. Classic Star Wars? It feels like they just conned a bunch of kids into watching Kung Fu in Space.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
I rest my case.
8DA9A454-A61E-4BA5-8230-B1EC39271FB4.jpeg
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem with Galaxy’s Edge—and the reason it leaves so many fans cold—is that Disney foolishly decided to Jettison all familiar, well-loved characters and places ftom the 80’s and build it around a newly made-up place that no one has any attachment to.

Yeah but that kind shows the core problem with the Mandalorian: They just keep dropping names and places and characters so the super fans can get a little endorphin rush from remembering some obscure reference. I'd have to think that even if you were the most ardent Star Wars fan, always being in Tatooine would ... eventually get boring and repetitive.

That isn't to say the Mandalorian isn't good... it's just not Breaking Bad good.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yeah but that kind shows the core problem with the Mandalorian: They just keep dropping names and places and characters so the super fans can get a little endorphin rush from remembering some obscure reference. I'd have to think that even if you were the most ardent Star Wars fan, always being in Tatooine would ... eventually get boring and repetitive.

That isn't to say the Mandalorian isn't good... it's just not Breaking Bad good.


Well almost nothing is Breaking Bad good. I think they have to be careful with Mandalorian with not getting too repetitive. I mean, the Star Wars movies are somewhat repetitive but they are giant blockbusters meant to be scene in theaters with Epic battles and beautiful cinematography.

To play devils advocate you can say they always go back to Tatooine because its an important location in the Star Wars universe. To the fans idea of what Star Wars is, not the fictional universe they created. Had they only went back that one time in season 1 we wouldn’t even be talking about it. I think they could have probably stayed away for a couple seasons. They struck a nice balance the first season between standing on its own two feet as an original show in the SW universe and fan service/ nostalgia.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Sorry... it’s just me being a geek. 😃 It’s from the 1999 Alice in Wonderland with Martin Short as the Mad Hatter.
Hatter: I rest my case.
Hare: Where?
Hatter: There.
Ba-dum tsss!


Haha this reminds me how disappointed I was with the live action Alice in Wonderland remakes. By chance to you remember the Alice in Wonderland live action show on the Disney channel from the early 90s? As our resident Alice expert I’m sure you do
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The biggest problem with Galaxy’s Edge—and the reason it leaves so many fans cold—is that Disney foolishly decided to Jettison all familiar, well-loved characters and places ftom the 80’s and build it around a newly made-up place that no one has any attachment to. Imagine if Universal had built Potter World and, instead of Hogwarts, created something like Clyde Rumptypoo’s University of Hocus Pocus.

While that’s part of the issue don’t you think the main issue is that they just threw out theme parks basics and didn’t make the place fun or pleasant to be in?
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Well almost nothing is Breaking Bad good. I think they have to be careful with Mandalorian with not getting too repetitive. I mean, the Star Wars movies are somewhat repetitive but they are giant blockbusters meant to be scene in theaters with Epic battles and beautiful cinematography.

Yeah that's the worry. I think the episode of the week format from television's past is good for what it is, but tastes have changed, and the audience is more eager to get some long drawn out multi-episode arc of change and development. If Mando goes around saving every backwater town on Tatooine for the next 8 episodes and saying "this is the way," it will get boring real quick. As a character, he needs to change and develop in order to justify telling his story, and so far it hasn't really indicated where that is going. But here's hoping they will explore that more this season. It seems unfair to judge it on one episode.

I'm sure if Filoni would explain it, the way he explained Star Wars in the Disney Gallery show, it would all make more sense.
 

SplashGhost

Well-Known Member
I feel like the last episode of The Mandalorian would have worked far better as a mid season episode than an opener. It also wasted the longer runtime. It felt like it padded for time with a lot of riding back and forth in the desert to hit a longer episode length just to please people that complained about the shorter episodes in Season 1.

One thing I liked about season 1 was the shorter episodes, since that prevented them from having too much padding just to fit a certain episode length.
 

Rich T

Well-Known Member
While that’s part of the issue don’t you think the main issue is that they just threw out theme parks basics and didn’t make the place fun or pleasant to be in?
Absolutely. It’s just that the element of arrogance Iger and Co. brought to the project is one of the funniest factors. And then there’s the Imagineering assumption that Joe Vacationer wants to LARP. And then having the LARPing turn out so lame, budget-cut and awkward.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I feel like the last episode of The Mandalorian would have worked far better as a mid season episode than an opener. It also wasted the longer runtime. It felt like it padded for time with a lot of riding back and forth in the desert to hit a longer episode length just to please people that complained about the shorter episodes in Season 1.


One thing I liked about season 1 was the shorter episodes, since that prevented them from having too much padding just to fit a certain episode length.

All True but how cool was it seeing him flying out of the sand monsters mouth? Lol
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
lol wait. You can see giant steel coasters all around you in Calico Ghost Town?

I rest my case.
All around you is overstating it. Pony Express, as poor as it is, only really mucks with the area immediately around it, as it is at least quite modest in size and height. Silver Bullet, while clearly visible from parts of Ghost Town, is less offensive than it could be and is accessed away from Ghost Town proper.

Should it be there? Absolutely not. Would I or the Knott family have put that ride there? No. Does it completely kill the area and deem the entire thing worthless? Hardly. Ghost Town will always have its strengths that exist apart from the strengths of DL's Frontierland, and it's still the heart of the park. Point is, both areas are good and have merit. Well worth a visit once Knott's is up and running as normal, but I imagine even partaking in their food festival would allow you to appreciate what is there on some level.
I grew up with the DL version, so I'm sure there some bias here, but the way it's been laid out at WDW doesn't make much sense to me. The riverboat landing is in liberty square, but thematically, the steam ship is out of place. The Columbia would have been a much better fit here but was strangely omitted in favor of a Mississippi stern wheeler, in an area that doesn't have much Mississippi influence and even (to the point of swaping NOS for Liberty Square) seems to be actively avoiding it.

The Country Bears were an opening day attraction (IIRC), and yet cartoon singing bears wasn't really the point of the original Frontierland at Disneyland and breaks the realism. So by the time they came to building Frontierland in Florida, the concept was already pretty much spent.
The Riverboat Landing is in the same place it is at Disneyland, more or less. It's unclear why they decided to lay it out this way, but I think it was to more consciously make Liberty Square and Frontierland better integrated into one larger area (and it wasn't the only example of this "just do it like DL" thinking in the park's planning-MK's parade route goes left at the castle and ends at the end of Frontierland to this day because that was the route DL's took at that time). They did take into account that the Riverboat was technically out of theme with an Independence-area village, and so designed Liberty Square at a higher elevation with the Riverboat obscured from Liberty Square proper. Only from Frontierland is the riverboat fully visible, which is sort of clever.

Reportedly the original plan was to give the park another Columbia as their second vessel (their first, a Mark Twain replica, was damaged beyond repair within the first decade of the park's existence), which would have certainly tied into the theme much better. However, it is speculated in Boundless Realm (from which some of the above information is drawn) that it was replaced by the sidewheeler instead for two reasons: higher capacity and guest comfort (the unshaded Columbia deck would have been miserable in the Florida humidity). Less in theme, but certainly solved two logistical problems. At any rate, while wonderful, is Columbia fully in theme on the ROA at DL? It was a sea going vessel that circumnavigated the globe that certainly wouldn't have been seen on, say, the Mississippi. Not saying I object to its presence or don't enjoy it, but it was built because Walt wanted it and it gave the river additional capacity, not because it would have been 100% accurate in that context. The same is more or less true of WDW's steamship in Liberty Square, really.

RE: Country Bears, I think it's fine where it is in Florida. and I suppose one could take issue with it, but to do so seems to me to be akin to those who complain about the HM facades at WDW and onward becoming increasingly unkempt. Why do people object to that? Not because there's anything objectively wrong with such an approach, but because of how the HM exterior is at DL-after all, Walt said it should be well kept, and so it was at DL,. But then some people cry fowl at subsequent mansions being increasingly unkempt looking when the reality is that Walt didn't dictate many park decisions after DL and he made a conscious choice with MK to remove himself from that process prior to his passing. MK is not Disneyland, and neither are the subsequent parks. They are variations on DL built with various changes to address what they learned from DL as well as to match the demands of their corporate masters as well as their customers.

If we look at examples of breaking realism over time, we don't even have to leave Disneyland, or Walt's time there, to find examples-the Jungle Cruise was originally presented as a straight, realistic adventure and it wasn't until the 60s and the influence of Marc Davis that it became about the jokes and the comical situations of the animatronics-more fantastical, more exaggerated, etc.,There are probably people who objected to the Jungle Cruise changes in the 60s, but no one objects to it now because that's how they've known it and because said changes were made when Walt was alive, thus "legitimizing." That decision paved the way for numerous subsequent decisions, certainly including the bears. And of course, MK is not DL is not TDL is not DLP and all that.

At any rate, nowadays virtually every area of every park has been cartoonized to one degree or another, and I don't even know if you can really blame Country Bears for that. It started with the Mine Train or Jungle Cruise, really, and probably really crystalized in its modern, full form under Eisner in the 80s. But alas, this could all just be my take. Country Bears in my view enhances the Frontierlands it is a part of, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the ones without it are diminished by its absence.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
All around you is overstating it. Pony Express, as poor as it is, only really mucks with the area immediately around it, as it is at least quite modest in size and height. Silver Bullet, while clearly visible from parts of Ghost Town, is less offensive than it could be and is accessed away from Ghost Town proper.

Should it be there? Absolutely not. Would I or the Knott family have put that ride there? No. Does it completely kill the area and deem the entire thing worthless? Hardly. Ghost Town will always have its strengths that exist apart from the strengths of DL's Frontierland, and it's still the heart of the park. Point is, both areas are good and have merit. Well worth a visit once Knott's is up and running as normal, but I imagine even partaking in their food festival would allow you to appreciate what is there on some level.

The Riverboat Landing is in the same place it is at Disneyland, more or less. It's unclear why they decided to lay it out this way, but I think it was to more consciously make Liberty Square and Frontierland better integrated into one larger area (and it wasn't the only example of this "just do it like DL" thinking in the park's planning-MK's parade route goes left at the castle and ends at the end of Frontierland to this day because that was the route DL's took at that time). They did take into account that the Riverboat was technically out of theme with an Independence-area village, and so designed Liberty Square at a higher elevation with the Riverboat obscured from Liberty Square proper. Only from Frontierland is the riverboat fully visible, which is sort of clever.

Reportedly the original plan was to give the park another Columbia as their second vessel (their first, a Mark Twain replica, was damaged beyond repair within the first decade of the park's existence), which would have certainly tied into the theme much better. However, it is speculated in Boundless Realm (from which some of the above information is drawn) that it was replaced by the sidewheeler instead for two reasons: higher capacity and guest comfort (the unshaded Columbia deck would have been miserable in the Florida humidity). Less in theme, but certainly solved two logistical problems. At any rate, while wonderful, is Columbia fully in theme on the ROA at DL? It was a sea going vessel that circumnavigated the globe that certainly wouldn't have been seen on, say, the Mississippi. Not saying I object to its presence or don't enjoy it, but it was built because Walt wanted it and it gave the river additional capacity, not because it would have been 100% accurate in that context. The same is more or less true of WDW's steamship in Liberty Square, really.

RE: Country Bears, I think it's fine where it is in Florida. and I suppose one could take issue with it, but to do so seems to me to be akin to those who complain about the HM facades at WDW and onward becoming increasingly unkempt. Why do people object to that? Not because there's anything objectively wrong with such an approach, but because of how the HM exterior is at DL-after all, Walt said it should be well kept, and so it was at DL,. But then some people cry fowl at subsequent mansions being increasingly unkempt looking when the reality is that Walt didn't dictate many park decisions after DL and he made a conscious choice with MK to remove himself from that process prior to his passing. MK is not Disneyland, and neither are the subsequent parks. They are variations on DL built with various changes to address what they learned from DL as well as to match the demands of their corporate masters as well as their customers.

If we look at examples of breaking realism over time, we don't even have to leave Disneyland, or Walt's time there, to find examples-the Jungle Cruise was originally presented as a straight, realistic adventure and it wasn't until the 60s and the influence of Marc Davis that it became about the jokes and the comical situations of the animatronics-more fantastical, more exaggerated, etc.,There are probably people who objected to the Jungle Cruise changes in the 60s, but no one objects to it now because that's how they've known it and because said changes were made when Walt was alive, thus "legitimizing." That decision paved the way for numerous subsequent decisions, certainly including the bears. And of course, MK is not DL is not TDL is not DLP and all that.

At any rate, nowadays virtually every area of every park has been cartoonized to one degree or another, and I don't even know if you can really blame Country Bears for that. It started with the Mine Train or Jungle Cruise, really, and probably really crystalized in its modern, full form under Eisner in the 80s. But alas, this could all just be my take. Country Bears in my view enhances the Frontierlands it is a part of, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the ones without it are diminished by its absence.


Well I’ll have to take your word for it until I get the chance to go... one day when the world reopens. Coming from the SF valley I can never get myself to stop at Knotts, 5 minutes before Disneyland. If I lived in the area I would most likely go more often.

EDIT: yeah I guess could go for a food festival. Anything for the kids to do? Other than look at me eat food they don’t want?
 
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PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
Well I’ll have to take your word for it until I get the chance to go... one day when the world reopens. Coming from the SF valley I can never get myself to stop at Knotts, 5 minutes before Disneyland. If I lived in the area I would most likely go more often.

EDIT: yeah I guess could go for a food festival. Anything for the kids to do? Other than look at me eat food they don’t want?
Unfortunately it looks like it's virtually 100% shopping and dining at the moment. They did have a trick or treat trail for Halloween through Camp Snoopy, but seeing as that ends tomorrow and they're sold out, that won't do you any good.

It looks like almost all of the park is currently open to wander around in and there are a lot of delicous-sounding items. I didn't see anything that looks like it would appeal to young children aside from several delicious-looking desserts perhaps.

At any rate, it looks like after tomorrow they may be closed for a few weeks until they start their Christmas-tasting event around the 18th. The menu's not finalized yet, but it looks like once it is they will be posting it in full. It does strike me, personally, as priced a bit high for five items at $40/adult (children are a lower price for three) unless I was desperate to be inside the park, TBH, even a lot of the food items sound great.

Hopefully at some point CA's numbers will get better or the theme park guidelines will relax a tad and Knott's can reopen in full.
 

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