The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[PiratesMansion]

I haven’t been to Knotts in a while but I’d have to imagine that the ROA alone makes this impossible.

There's merit to the idea that the river adds a lot and could potentially move the needle.

However, if you take the river out of the equation, Ghost Town trumps Frontierland on every level. More authentic, visually interesting, and dare I say...(sigh)...immersive.

And the Mine and Log Rides are genuinely some of the best non-Disney themed rides ever created.

It also helps that over the past several years Knott's has embraced being itself while Disneyland has simultaneously moved further away from what originally made it special.

 

[Ldno]

Indeed, they are still dissing Mr. Toad.

As much as they have a wealth of great information in their books, some of their ride opinions and quotes they've chosen to include about them have always been odd. Like that "don't let the childishness of the Haunted Mansion fool you" bit they always include. Just...what?

Sone of their content is spot on, I learned what to compartmentalize rides according to ride capacity and peak hours. But yes they still diss on Mr. Toad.

I learned how to disney from rope drop until park closing though, they do offer some very good advice went it comes to managing your precious times at the parks

 

[Rich T]

"This is Tim the Trombone. Oh you want to see Dorothy? This land takes place during Wizard of Oz part 6 where dorothy is dead. Have fun!"

Seriously why did Disney buy the Star Wars series when its clear that they just wanted to make their own scifi series with their own characters? Makes no sense to me.

Disney wanted to benefit from the existing fanbase and decades of work others had put into creating the SW universe. And then, having spent billions to acquire the franchise, they proceded to hand the reigns to people who seemed to want to deconstruct and undo everything George Lucas had done. What super geniuses of Wyle E. Coyote magnitude...

 

[socalifornian]

Filoni and Favreau are the last hopes. If they could graduate to live action theatrical releases that would be nice

 

[SuddenStorm]

Filoni and Favreau are the last hopes. If they could graduate to live action theatrical releases that would be nice

It was nice to sit down and watch something Disney produced without any complaints. Just an hour of solid, entertaining TV. Can't wait for next week's episode.

 

[mickEblu]

There's merit to the idea that the river adds a lot and could potentially move the needle.

However, if you take the river out of the equation, Ghost Town trumps Frontierland on every level. More authentic, visually interesting, and dare I say...(sigh)...immersive.


And the Mine and Log Rides are genuinely some of the best non-Disney themed rides ever created.

It also helps that over the past several years Knott's has embraced being itself while Disneyland has simultaneously moved further away from what originally made it special.

Good points yet I thinking comparing both lands is a little apples/oranges and kind of unfair when you take out the ROA. You cant just throw it out as the land was built around it and TSI. The actual town part of Frontierland has never been the focus of the land has always been the smallest part. It was always about the frontier (like it’s name says) .... the “rivers”, mine trains thru nature’s wonderland, TSI etc. Calico Ghost town is what it says it is... an old Western town.

Just on a pure aesthetic level I would imagine the vast majority of people would prefer Disneyland’s Frontierland and what it does for the park. With that said I haven’t been to knotts in forever and don’t really remember Calico Ghost Town very well but just on a purely objective level it’s hard for me to see how it could be rated higher than Disneyland’s Frontierland if not solely because of the ROA.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Good points yet I thinking comparing both lands is a little apples/oranges and kind of unfair when you take out the ROA. You cant just throw it out as the land was built around it and TSI. The actual town part of Frontierland has never been the focus of the land has always been the smallest part. It was always about the frontier (like it’s name says) .... the “rivers”, mine trains thru nature’s wonderland, TSI etc. Calico Ghost town is what it says it is... an old Western town.

Just on a pure aesthetic level I would imagine the vast majority of people would prefer Disneyland’s Frontierland and what it does for the park. With that said I haven’t been to knotts in forever and don’t really remember Calico Ghost Town very well but just on a purely objective level it’s hard for me to see how it could be rated higher than Disneyland’s Frontierland if not solely because of the ROA.

My intention was not to throw out the river, but at DL in particular, even though the river technically "belongs" to Frontierland it affects the west side as a whole in the way it also impacts NOS and CC. So for me, just as the lands somewhat bleed together in that space, albeit pleasantly so, the same is also true for the river. Through that lens, rightly or wrongly, my brain typically associates Frontierland largely with the area actually traversible on foot, and the river is either its own entity or equally a part of all three areas.

Perhaps because of that, although I enjoy Frontierland, it doesn't make much of an impression on me at DL. If it weren't for the Big Thunder Trail, and depending on how much of the area around the river you consider part of the land, it feels about the same size as Adventureland. You're through it before you know it. It's also a bit attraction sparse compared to its counterparts around the world, or so it seems to me, though the extra river activity is certainly appreciated. WDW and particularly Paris have Frontierlands that stick out to me as stronger areas, through both design and attraction lineup. Which is not to say that I don't like Frontierland at DL, but it simply doesn't register to me as distinctly.

I enjoy the way that Ghost Town feels more realistic, and has a more rambling layout that invites you to explore. It's especially nice when Ghost Town Alive is happening and gives the area a new energy and it feels even more cohesive-it would have been interesting to experience DL's Frontierland equivalent to compare the two.

Really though, both areas suit their parks well and manage to remain distinct so as to fit the parks and not directly copy each other. Orange County is lucky to have both.

 

[Ldno]

It’s just funny how the cycle of life works. Star Trek was successful just being weekly serials that was popular until the Star Wars movie came out, then when they tried the first Star Trek movie, it bombed until Star Trek wrath of Kahn came out, then they got the series right by releasing Star Trek next generation, then we got the SW prequels which was payback I guess and nose dived into the sequel trilogy and now we are back to weekly serials for star wars to save the day haha fun times.

 

[Rich T]

“Hey, Disney! You just bought the biggest movie franchise in the world! What are you going to do next?”

“We’re gonna wreck it!”

 

[el_super]

However, if you take the river out of the equation, Ghost Town trumps Frontierland on every level. More authentic, visually interesting, and dare I say...(sigh)...immersive.

Knott's used to have a lake and a steamboat where Silver Bullet is today. To be honest, it never really captured the same sense of exploration that the Rivers of America has, but it was something.

I would generally agree that Ghost Town has a far more authentic look and feel than Disneyland's Frontierland. Disney's version was always supposed to be the spit-shine, clean and new looking, family-friendly frontier. Ghost Town used authentic buildings from Calico that looked shoddy and run down ... because they were. There were two completely different aesthetics and while we look at the old, run down ghost town buildings as being truer to an authentic version of the old west (as we know it today), the Disney version was definitely more aligned to what audiences in the 1950s thought the old west was like (mostly being driven from television). Different strokes for different folks.

The only real complaint I can levy against Knott's Ghost Town, is the coaster tracks that now cross the sky above.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Knott's used to have a lake and a steamboat where Silver Bullet is today. To be honest, it never really captured the same sense of exploration that the Rivers of America has, but it was something.

I would generally agree that Ghost Town has a far more authentic look and feel than Disneyland's Frontierland. Disney's version was always supposed to be the spit-shine, clean and new looking, family-friendly frontier. Ghost Town used authentic buildings from Calico that looked shoddy and run down ... because they were. There were two completely different aesthetics and while we look at the old, run down ghost town buildings as being truer to an authentic version of the old west (as we know it today), the Disney version was definitely more aligned to what audiences in the 1950s thought the old west was like (mostly being driven from television). Different strokes for different folks.

The only real complaint I can levy against Knott's Ghost Town, is the coaster tracks that now cross the sky above.

Silver Bullet and Pony Express should never have been built. Pony Express especially doesn't even offer a good or interesting ride experience to compensate for its unnecessary destruction to the area.

 

[PiratesMansion]

As someone who has little experience/exposure/what have you to anything Star Wars, what is it that separates The Mandalorian and its reception from the rest of the recent Star Wars films and lands?

Different personnel? Better fidelity to the established characters/universe? Some unexpected X Factor missing from the other new works?

 

[el_super]

Perhaps because of that, although I enjoy Frontierland, it doesn't make much of an impression on me at DL. If it weren't for the Big Thunder Trail, and depending on how much of the area around the river you consider part of the land, it feels about the same size as Adventureland. You're through it before you know it. It's also a bit attraction sparse compared to its counterparts around the world, or so it seems to me, though the extra river activity is certainly appreciated. WDW and particularly Paris have Frontierlands that stick out to me as stronger areas, through both design and attraction lineup. Which is not to say that I don't like Frontierland at DL, but it simply doesn't register to me as distinctly.

Paris yes, but WDW? Florida has probably the worst Frontierland for me. The only real attraction in Frontierland at WDW that reinforces the theme is Big Thunder and it's way off on the other side of the river with Splash Mountain sitting in front of it. The colonial Liberty Square theme doesn't really mesh as well with the frontier setting as New Orleans does at Disneyland either.

Paris though, as they had with many other things, completely nails the concept.

As for going back to Knott's (and I wish I had seen this post before replying to the other). I think it's helpful to think of the Rivers of America as an attraction at Disneyland and find the comparable attraction at Knott's. In this case I think the Railroad at Knott's really preserves the same sense of exploration and placemaking that the ROA does at Disneyland. It does this in a way that the railroad at Disneyland fails to do. I'm not sure if Knott's was still running their stage coach, but that attraction also reinforces the theme of their Ghost Town in a way that no attraction in Frontierland does.

 

[el_super]

Silver Bullet and Pony Express should never have been built. Pony Express especially doesn't even offer a good or interesting ride experience to compensate for its unnecessary destruction to the area.

Silver Bullet is a great coaster... but I absolutely agree that the value it added doesn't make up for what was lost. Pony Express is not a great coaster (and why people keep wanting Tron to come to Disneyland.. I will never know) and completely ruined boot hill.

I still have a love-hate relationship with Knott's because it's clear that the place had to make some deep concessions to keep the lights on, and while I hate what it's mostly become, the good classic bits are still there buried below the steel. It also really drives the perspective home when people complain about Disneyland destroying their history for a quick buck.

 

[el_super]

As someone who has little experience/exposure/what have you to anything Star Wars, what is it that separates The Mandalorian and its reception from the rest of the recent Star Wars films and lands?

Different personnel? Better fidelity to the established characters/universe? Some unexpected X Factor missing from the other new works?

As best I can tell. 'Good' Star Wars is all about name dropping and easter eggs for fan service. As long as you keep referencing the same old obscure characters from the 1980s, you're golden.

The worst part of Star Wars that I will never understand, is how they keep ending up back on Tatooine. A planet that was created for the sole purpose of being the forgotten, farthest outpost in the galaxy, is literally the only planet where anything noteworthy happens in this universe.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[PiratesMansion]

Paris yes, but WDW? Florida has probably the worst Frontierland for me. The only real attraction in Frontierland at WDW that reinforces the theme is Big Thunder and it's way off on the other side of the river with Splash Mountain sitting in front of it. The colonial Liberty Square theme doesn't really mesh as well with the frontier setting as New Orleans does at Disneyland either.

Paris though, as they had with many other things, completely nails the concept.

As for going back to Knott's (and I wish I had seen this post before replying to the other). I think it's helpful to think of the Rivers of America as an attraction at Disneyland and find the comparable attraction at Knott's. In this case I think the Railroad at Knott's really preserves the same sense of exploration and placemaking that the ROA does at Disneyland. It does this in a way that the railroad at Disneyland fails to do. I'm not sure if Knott's was still running their stage coach, but that attraction also reinforces the theme of their Ghost Town in a way that no attraction in Frontierland does.

I really like the colonial America-to-wild west transition (Passport2Dreams having sufficiently convinced me of its brilliance) and the way that it moves seamlessly together, in a way that is more logical than the DL equivalent (which is charming, organic, and special in its own right but done very differently). Splash mucks it up somewhat, but compensates by being a superior version of the attraction. The original CBJ adds a lot to the area to me personally. It all just feels more refined and distinctive to me vs. DL's original. It's probably my favorite of the MK lands.

Knott's still runs the stage coaches.

Silver Bullet is a great coaster... but I absolutely agree that the value it added doesn't make up for what was lost. Pony Express is not a great coaster (and why people keep wanting Tron to come to Disneyland.. I will never know) and completely ruined boot hill.

I still have a love-hate relationship with Knott's because it's clear that the place had to make some deep concessions to keep the lights on, and while I hate what it's mostly become, the good classic bits are still there buried below the steel. It also really drives the perspective home when people complain about Disneyland destroying their history for a quick buck.

I didn't know classic Knott's, but I think that what is left appears, to me, well cared for and preserved. I do think current management gets it, but the park is and will be for decades hampered by the effects of poor decisions that were made in the recent past. It's also a cautionary tale of what could happen to Disneyland if Disney jumps whole hog on everything they are rumored to want to do (and I agree that Tron absolutely would have a Pony Express or Silver Bullet-type effect on DL's Tomorrowland). Of course, many of these rumors are perhaps only that, especially after the realities of this year, but we are in an era where nothing feels untouchable, and that's frankly scary.

 

[Rich T]

Ten more days. Oh... right... there’s some kinda election thing happening first...

 

[lazyboy97o]

View attachment 509662
Ten more days. Oh... right... there’s some kinda election thing happening first...

Vote Whig!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Vote Whig!

November 4:

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"

 

[Rich T]

As someone who has little experience/exposure/what have you to anything Star Wars, what is it that separates The Mandalorian and its reception from the rest of the recent Star Wars films and lands?

Different personnel? Better fidelity to the established characters/universe? Some unexpected X Factor missing from the other new works?

The first season was focused, suspenseful and told an interesting story (A bounty hunter with a tragic past finds himself hunted as he tries to protect a baby). It tripped up a couple of times, but overall Season One was the best written, directed and accessible Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back.