The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[PiratesMansion]

Pandora would look extraordinarily odd in DL unless the scale was significantly changed (and I'm not sure modern WDI really understands how to do that or why it's important).

And honestly, as much as GE has been kind of a bust, I think people would take more of an issue with Avatar getting its own land in DL than they would with Star Wars.

 

[mickEblu]

Forget GE, that ship sailed.

But imagine Pandora taking over the Subs/Motorboat area, with the lagoon staying of course.

If the lagoon stays on ok with it in theory. I just think it would feel a little shoehorned in there. It would obviously have to be a truncated version of the one in AK. Having a hard time visualizing how it would work with the Matterhorn too. Wouldn’t the show building for FOP alone take up almost of Autopias real estate?

 

[mickEblu]

Pandora would look extraordinarily odd in DL unless the scale was significantly changed (and I'm not sure modern WDI really understands how to do that or why it's important).

And honestly, as much as GE has been kind of a bust, I think people would take more of an issue with Avatar getting its own land in DL than they would with Star Wars.

It would look odd everywhere except where GE is. I think Pandora works much better at DL then the direction they went With GE. It’s not a comparison of IP, it’s a comparison of what they did with the IP.

 

[Rich T]

Not that bold of a statement but Pandora would have been better for Disneyland than Galaxies Edge. Change my mind.

Discovery Bay would have been better than either as well as *GASP* actually being a Disney creation!

 

[mickEblu]

Discovery Bay would have been better than either as well as *GASP* actually being a Disney creation!

I’m not really into the steampunk thing. It makes me think of TL 98. I don’t even understand what steampunk is tbh.

 

[TROR]

I honestly think everything within these borders could be leveled and I'd be ok with that. I'm not necessarily ok with what would be put on top of the land for replacement, though. I seriously wish the backstage area between Space Mountain and Main Street could be used for the old Liberty Street idea. Also, just something I was thinking about, I'd like to see the Innoventions building torn down (duh) and replaced with something akin to Horizons as @Phrubruh keeps calling for, but more specifically I'd like to see a new Monorail station attached to the front of the new structure. That way you see the Monorail pull into the station when looking down the Tomorrowland walkway, similar to how the Mark Twain acts as a wienie of Frontierland.

 

[Rich T]

I’m not really into the steampunk thing. It makes me think of TL 98. I don’t even understand what steampunk is tbh.

Steampunk-the interpretation Baxter and co. were aiming for—is generally an alternate history where sudden leaps in science happened in the age of steam power allowing the stories of H.G. Wells and Jules Verne to actually happen. Forget TL 98 and imagine a land based on waterfront San Francisco of the 1890’s, but including blimps and submarines and time travel and horses and stained glass windows and brass and copper and gears and steam blasting out of vents and top hats and aviator goggles. It’s all about wild Scrooge McDuck-like adventures into the unknown while always returning in the end to the comforts of upper-class 1890’s easy chairs, steak dinners, brandy and cigars.

 

[Rich T]

I honestly think everything within these borders could be leveled and I'd be ok with that. I'm not necessarily ok with what would be put on top of the land for replacement, though. I seriously wish the backstage area between Space Mountain and Main Street could be used for the old Liberty Street idea. Also, just something I was thinking about, I'd like to see the Innoventions building torn down (duh) and replaced with something akin to Horizons as @Phrubruh keeps calling for, but more specifically I'd like to see a new Monorail station attached to the front of the new structure. That way you see the Monorail pull into the station when looking down the Tomorrowland walkway, similar to how the Mark Twain acts as a wienie of Frontierland.

View attachment 465766

I agree with all of this—but, yes, the replacements had better be great (and not all based on popular movies).

 

[PiratesMansion]

It would look odd everywhere except where GE is. I think Pandora works much better at DL then the direction they went With GE. It’s not a comparison of IP, it’s a comparison of what they did with the IP.

Maybe. But ultimately more people would be upset with *the very idea* of putting Pandora in DL than they would be with Star Wars, which might have stopped it from getting off the ground altogether.

Through Star Tours, Star Wars has been associated with DL for longer than I've been alive. Matched with Star Wars' enduring popularity (it'll be interesting to see how the latest trilogy will affect it over time), Star Wars makes more sense on paper than Avatar would. If they had put Pandora where GE is, people would have raised hell.

That said, now that they've seemingly botched the execution of GE, its possible that people could have been more satisfied with a straight Pandora clone there than what they actually built, but my perception is that any single-franchise land put in that spot would have upset people and not been good enough.

While Pandora is cool, I don't know that I believe people would react all that differently to it being in that spot than they are already reacting to GE. Both of Pandora's attractions are flawed, and I'm not convinced DLR regulars would respond any more favorably to that than what's there now. Most everyone who's been on both tends to rate ROTR above FOP. Ultimately, it would still flop in execution. Although it could potentially have been a cool visual if they could have found a way to tie in the Pandora rockwork as some kind of bridge that connects Splash Mountain, the Frontier, and Big Thunder Mountain together into an organic, western side of the park-spanning landscape.

Steampunk is actually a really cool design aesthetic when it's done well, a la DisneySea. Slathering Golden Manure paint all over everything is only steampunk when Paul Pressler is in charge of the pocketbook.

 

[socalifornian]

The two Pandora showbuildings form a giant box at DAK, about this size

 

[mickEblu]

Maybe. But ultimately more people would be upset with *the very idea* of putting Pandora in DL than they would be with Star Wars, which might have stopped it from getting off the ground altogether.

Through Star Tours, Star Wars has been associated with DL for longer than I've been alive. Matched with Star Wars' enduring popularity (it'll be interesting to see how the latest trilogy will affect it over time), Star Wars makes more sense on paper than Avatar would. If they had put Pandora where GE is, people would have raised hell.

That said, now that they've seemingly botched the execution of GE, its possible that people could have been more satisfied with a straight Pandora clone there than what they actually built, but my perception is that any single-franchise land put in that spot would have upset people and not been good enough.

While Pandora is cool, I don't know that I believe people would react all that differently to it being in that spot than they are already reacting to GE. Both of Pandora's attractions are flawed, and I'm not convinced DLR regulars would respond any more favorably to that than what's there now. Most everyone who's been on both tends to rate ROTR above FOP. Ultimately, it would still flop in execution. Although it could potentially have been a cool visual if they could have found a way to tie in the Pandora rockwork as some kind of bridge that connects Splash Mountain, the Frontier, and Big Thunder Mountain together into an organic, western side of the park-spanning landscape.

Steampunk is actually a really cool design aesthetic when it's done well, a la DisneySea. Slathering Golden Manure paint all over everything is only steampunk when Paul Pressler is in charge of the pocketbook.

Don’t get me wrong, I know that if in 2015 you put it to a vote and asked fans what land they would rather have at DL, GE would win by a landslide. Knowing what we know now however I think Pandora would win. Pandora’s rides aren’t perfect either and tbh I was mostly comparing lands and aesthetics. I think when you look at the ride line ups FOP/ NRJ vs ROTR/ MFSR they are pretty neck and neck when considering everything. When it comes to the lands however, a lush Pandora would be a much more welcome aesthetic in DL. It’s like Adventureland meets Fantasyland. There’s nothing about GE that matches the joy/ whimsy experienced throughout the rest of the park.

 

[mickEblu]

The two Pandora showbuildings form a giant box at DAK, about this size
View attachment 465872

Thanks for this! Yeah that’s I thought, it ain’t happening. Best case for that whole Autopia/ subs plot is another sprawling outdoor ride (whether it be a revamped Autopia, new peoplemover / Rocket Rods or something else) that doesn’t require a huge show building and losing all those trees. Having a revitalized Autopia interwoven with a peoplemover or rocket rods type ride more than justifies that Use of space.

 

[socalifornian]

Thanks for this! Yeah that’s I thought, it ain’t happening. Best case for that whole Autopia/ subs plot is another sprawling outdoor ride (whether it be a revamped Autopia, new peoplemover / Rocket Rods or something else) that doesn’t require a huge show building and losing all those trees. Having a revitalized Autopia interwoven with a peoplemover or rocket rods type ride more than justifies that Use of space.

Yeah those rides are oddly space efficient for WDW standards too, that area in DL is smaller than I thought. You have a better eye than me haha

 

[brb1006]

Recently the folks behind RetroWDW (a website dedicated to Walt Disney World's past history) just posted two videos from their 5th Anniversary panel "RetroMagic" from October 2019. This video features former Executive Vice President of Walt Disney Entertainment Ron Logan talking to the audience about his involvement with Walt Disney World, Disneyland and the other Disney Theme Parks. This part is mainly dedicated to WDW's former electrical parade "Spectromagic" (which is the only electrical parade made exclusively for WDW) since Ron Logan was the producer for the parade. He also discusses "Light Magic" that ran at Disneyland after MSEP left.



This video is 57 minutes long but it's worth the watch since he discusses some interesting stories and information.

 

[mickEblu]

Those rides are oddly space efficient for WDW standards, that area in DL is smaller than I thought

Really? I haven’t been to WDW

 

[PiratesMansion]

Really? I haven’t been to WDW

He's definitely right. WDW has more land than they know what to do with, so everything is massive and sprawling. Sometimes, it's to the resort's benefit (Magic Kingdom crowds have much more room to move than at DL, some rides expand upon their DL counterparts simply because the space is there, it's the only Disney resort where the parks truly feel separate because they aren't right up next to each other, they have monumental park icons that are enormously impressive in person); other times, not so much (getting around, inside or outside of parks, is time consuming and often frustrating; EVERYTHING takes longer at WDW; they don't always actually USE all of the space they have well, which somewhat defeats the purpose of having it).

 

[mickEblu]

He's definitely right. WDW has more land than they know what to do with, so everything is massive and sprawling. Sometimes, it's to the resort's benefit (Magic Kingdom crowds have much more room to move than at DL, some rides expand upon their DL counterparts simply because the space is there, it's the only Disney resort where the parks truly feel separate because they aren't right up next to each other, they have monumental park icons that are enormously impressive in person); other times, not so much (getting around, inside or outside of parks, is time consuming and often frustrating; EVERYTHING takes longer at WDW; they don't always actually USE all of the space they have well, which somewhat defeats the purpose of having it).

Oh ya I know all about how they don’t use their “blessing of size” and how DL makes better use of space out of necessity and how often that ended up giving us richer, more layered lands and attractions. I guess I attributed the whole WDW not taking advantage of the “blessing of size” thing to them getting rid of existing attractions to build a new one when they don’t have to (like GMR to MMRR) and not really to the layout of the parks or resort.

 

[PiratesMansion]

To put this into perspective, here are Walt Disney World and Disneyland at the same zoom level. The print is a bit blurry at this scale, but you can get the gist of it.

This isn't ALL of Walt Disney World, and you can see some non-WDW property, particularly on the other side of the highway, but you can see most of the important landmarks in this screenshot: the four parks (note too Magic Kingdom's massive parking lot separated from the park by the lagoon), Disney Springs (Typhoon Lagoon is just below it), several of the golf courses, and Blizzard Beach.

Here's Disneyland at the same scale at the red dot.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It really is sad how what was supposed to be a thoughtfully planned Garden City of To-Morrow just became the very sort of messy, careless sprawl that even Disneyland inspired others to dream beyond.

 

[Phroobar]

Well your less likely to get eaten by an alligator at Disneyland.