The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[Phroobar]

Before Silver Bullet, there stood the Church of the Reflections. You actually could get married at it. The lake had a paddle boat that went around it. The Camp Snoop train used to go around the lake. The lake had a fireworks show too. I worked the fireworks show one summer on a unbalanced raft. I fell in the at stupid lake more times that I can remember. The Church was moved near Independence Hall in 2003. In 2016, the City and Knotts wanted to move it elsewhere and the Church was closed. In 2018, the nonprofit Church of Reflections Preservation Foundation was formed to raise money to move the church a mile southwest to Good Shepherd Lutheran Church. Finally in 2020 the Church was to be moved but the pandemic hit and moving plans where stalled.

In 1876, the church was built as First Baptist Church of Downey and was located at Second and Church Streets in Downey. It was built of redwood.

 

[Phroobar]

per a Los Angeles Times when it was announced it replaced a warehouse, offices and the steam plant. Another article says the Volcano was demo'd and the Pan for Gold was moved. GhostRider was also the last attraction commissioned by the Knott family.

A few years ago, they moved the Pan for Gold back to it's original location near Ghost Rider's entrance. The Volcano was replaced with a firepit outside of the park.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I guess by family coaster I meant something well themed and in the 40 inch height requirement range.

Unfortunately, that's the difference between Disney and everyone else. By the standards of everyone that's not Disney, that's a stellar family coaster lineup, albeit with typical Cedar Fair height requirement inflation where almost no height requirements are under 48 inches even if it should be/would be under a different operator.

Walk back behind Starbucks and there's a nice shady area with tables next to the Ghost Rider fence. Or I will sit at a Starbucks table.

That's actually where I sat last time! There are only like four tables though, they could stand to add more. It wasn't an issue when I went in October and no one was there, but I imagine those tables might be easier to nab

 

[mickEblu]

Unfortunately, that's the difference between Disney and everyone else. By the standards of everyone that's not Disney, that's a stellar family coaster lineup, albeit with typical Cedar Fair height requirement inflation where almost no height requirements are under 48 inches even if it should be/would be under a different operator.

That's actually where I sat last time! There are only like four tables though, they could stand to add more. It wasn't an issue when I went in October and no one was there, but I imagine those tables might be easier to nab

Right, I still can’t figure out why something like Jaguar has a 48 inch height requirement.

Is there any reason why something like that would be impossible for them to build though? I mean Disneyland is right down the street in the the same state with the same rules/ regulations.

The log ride’s height requirement is 4 inches shorter than Splash Mountain. Granted, the last drop isn’t as steep.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Right, I still can’t figure out why something like Jaguar has a 48 inch height requirement.

Is there any reason why something like that would be impossible for them to build though? I mean Disneyland is right down the street in the the same state with the same rules/ regulations.

The log ride’s height requirement is 4 inches shorter than Splash Mountain. Granted, the last drop isn’t as steep.

It's 100% a Cedar Fair thing, they always have inflated height requirements vs. everyone else, and requirements are standardized regardless of state. Allegedly it's because of their insurance requirements, but who really knows. But at some point over the next year Magic Mountain will suddenly raise height requirements to match the other CF parks (as will every other Six Flags park), and a lot of kids will find abruptly themselves unable to ride things that they had been able to do in the past just fine.

The only coasters at Cedar Fair parks that have restrictions below 48 inches are things like Gadget's or their kiddie coasters (Ninja at Magic Mountain might get bumped up to "only" 46 inches to match the similar coaster at Cedar Point). There's no way you'll get something like at Disneyland at a Cedar Fair park without them completely reformulating the way they calculate height requirements.

 

[Parteecia]

That's actually where I sat last time! There are only like four tables though, they could stand to add more. It wasn't an issue when I went in October and no one was there, but I imagine those tables might be easier to nab

That's a shame. I haven't been for a while but there were a lot more tables last time I went.

 

[Rich T]

Just spent a bit of time trying to wrap my brain around how this track layout works to create two different rides out of the same three major coaster sections. This is brilliant! Both choices traverse the exact same sections of track, but use 2 switches, a reverse launch and a lift/launch to shuffle them around. What a great, creative use of space and resources!

 

[PiratesMansion]

Just spent a bit of time trying to wrap my brain around how this track layout works to create two different rides out of the same three major coaster sections. This is brilliant! Both layout settings cover the exact same sections of track, but use 2 switches, a reverse launch and a lift/launch hill to create two different experiences by alternating whether you begin forwards off the lift or backwards down the lift. What a great, creative use of space and resources!

Good ol' THEME PAHK WHIRLDWAID ON YOUTUBE!

 

[Rich T]

Good ol' THEME PAHK WHIRLDWAID ON YOUTUBE!

I love both their accents so much. Of all the theme park tour channels, this one has always been my favorite.

 

[PiratesMansion]

So Six Flags and Cedar Fair have now merged, and we now have another theme park operator, Parques Reunidos, looking to explore the sale or merger of ITS parks in the US, which operate as Palace Entertainment, operator of Castle Park, Raging Waters, and a few Boomers locations near San Diego, and many historic parks in the Northeastern US.

As I've said, basically the entire theme park industry is struggling right now, and Universal's success is an anomoly:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...ness-parques-reunidos-sources-say-2024-07-30/

 

[Disney Irish]

So Six Flags and Cedar Fair have now merged, and we now have another theme park operator, Parques Reunidos, looking to explore the sale or merger of ITS parks in the US, which operate as Palace Entertainment, operator of Castle Park, Raging Waters, and a few Boomers locations near San Diego, and many historic parks in the Northeastern US.

As I've said, basically the entire theme park industry is struggling right now, and Universal's success is an anomoly:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/dea...ness-parques-reunidos-sources-say-2024-07-30/

Universal isn't even having the success that some of the fanbois claim, they reported attendance and revenue also being down year over year for Q2.

 

[TP2000]

Universal isn't even having the success that some of the fanbois claim, they reported attendance and revenue also being down year over year for Q2.

With inflation and the cost of energy being what they've been for the past few years, I can't imagine there are any industries that rely on non-essential products aimed at working-class and middle-class family consumers that are having a good year.

If you are suddenly paying 20% more for groceries, and 30% more for energy (gas, electricity, heating/cooling), then something in the family budget has got to give. Luxuries and decadence like expensive theme parks are easy to replace with a family trip to the lake or the beach or a campground. Or just a round of mini-golf and a backyard barbecue with S'mores.

S'mores and mini-golf don't offer Lighting Lane upcharges, either.

 

[Epcot81Fan]

With inflation and the cost of energy being what they've been for the past few years, I can't imagine there are any industries that rely on non-essential products aimed at working-class and middle-class family consumers that are having a good year.

If you are suddenly paying 20% more for groceries, and 30% more for energy (gas, electricity, heating/cooling), then something in the family budget has got to give. Luxuries and decadence like expensive theme parks are easy to replace with a family trip to the lake or the beach or a campground. Or just a round of mini-golf and a backyard barbecue with S'mores.

S'mores and mini-golf don't offer Lighting Lane upcharges, either.

Sure, but if you go to a lake or beach you aren't getting the "Disney experience" by having to stare obsessively at your phone all day long constantly refreshing totally ignoring your family all day.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Universal isn't even having the success that some of the fanbois claim, they reported attendance and revenue also being down year over year for Q2.

Tell that to all the people here who are constantly like "buh buh buh Universal" when I try and frame the current state of Disneyland as Pretty Dang Good in the context of an industry-wide time of struggle.

 

[Rich T]

This Californian-in-Florida is so Happy to Finally Have Something Positive to Say About a Remodeled Disney Attraction!

Just got back from Magic Kingdom and my first viewings of the new Country Bear Show. As a huge CBJ fan, I wanted to go in cold, with no prior knowledge of the details. I’ve avoided all videos, reviews and song playlists, and nervously entered the building prepared to have, at best, a mixed reaction. The great prop-filled display cases in the lobby gave me hope, but I kept my guard up. A few minutes later, I was having a great time.

The Country Bear Musical Jamboree is WONDERFUL! I am over-the-moon happy with the results. The show has renewed my faith by demonstrating that there ARE, in fact, people left in Imagineering who “get it,” love the legacy of the attraction they were tasked with reinventing, and know how to deliver a show full of genuine humor, wit, charm and character.

Is it perfect? Well… it’s darn close. I was disappointed by only two things:

1. For me, it feels a couple of minutes too short. Another quick song by the Five Bear Rugs would have fixed that.
2. (And I knew this going in) No Thurl Ravenscroft voicing Buff. That’s unavoidable, of course, and Buff’s new voice actor (Fred Tatasciore) does a fine job of bringing the character to life. Once I adjusted to NOT hearing Mr. Ravenscroft, I had no problem accepting the new voice. The personality is intact.

The best things about the new show:

1. The team who handled this knows these characters and their past, and it all carries through. I was worried that they’d go too far with the rumored “Grand Ol’ Opry” style, but this show feels like a natural, in-character follow-up to the Christmas Show and Vacation Hoedown. Nothing feels jarring or out of place.
2. The return of Rufus! Keeping the continuity flowing, as this show takes place after Vacation Hoedown, Rufus the sleepy unseen stage hand (and original occupant of Brer Bear’s Splash Mtn. cave at DL) remains employed, adding some Muppet-Show-Like backstage mayhem to the proceedings.
3. Max, Buff and Melvin are a bigger part of the show than ever! These three beloved talking heads really get a chance to shine here, adding liveliness and humor to the seating process, the exit process, and everything in between. They take part-in some way-in just about every song, and Buff’s quick, wonderful groaner of a Dad Joke (You feel he’s waited fifty years for a chance to finally use it) gets one of the show’s biggest laughs.
4. The Disney Song element is nicely downplayed. The show starts with an original new intro song and closes with the CBJ classic, “Come Again.” The word “Disney” is never used, and the chosen countrified Disney songs are each perfect (or hilariously wrong) for the characters who perform them; the Disney film aspect is never intrusive. Most importantly, this comes across as a themed Country Bear Show (in line with Christmas and Vacation Hoedown) not a show with Disney shoehorned into it.
5. The refreshed animatronics look fantastic, and Max, Buff and Melvin no longer make clicking sounds as they animate.
6. This show took my least favorite Disney song ever, “Fixer Upper,” and used it in a context that made me smile.

It all works. There are no misfires. The show is joyous, playful, light on its feet and proud of its history and cast.

I was originally skeptical, but now I truly believe this revamp is a genuinely smart move that, by presenting its country humor in the context of familiar Disney songs, makes the show more mass-audience friendly. All four performances I attended played to full houses, and the crowds laughed and applauded throughout.

 

[PiratesMansion]

View attachment 805699

This Californian-in-Florida is so Happy to Finally Have Something Positive to Say About a Remodeled Disney Attraction!

Just got back from Magic Kjngdom and my first viewings of the new Country Bear Show. As a huge CBJ fan, I wanted to go in cold, with no prior knowledge of the details. I’ve avoided all videos, reviews and song playlists, and nervously entered the building prepared to have, at best, a mixed reaction. The great prop-filled display cases in the lobby gave me hope, but I kept my guard up. A few minutes later, I was having a great time.

The Country Bear Musical Jamboree is WONDERFUL! I am over-the-moon happy with the results. The show has renewed my faith by demonstrating that there ARE, in fact, people left in Imagineering who “get it,” love the legacy of the attraction they were tasked with reinventing, and know how to deliver a show full of genuine humor, wit, charm and character.

Is it perfect? Well… it’s darn close. I was disappointed by only two things:

1. For me, it feels a couple of minutes too short. Another quick song by the Five Bear Rugs would have fixed that.
2. (And I knew this going in) No Thurl Ravenscroft voicing Buff. That’s unavoidable, of course, and Buff’s new voice actor (Fred Tatasciore) does a fine job of bringing the character to life. Once I adjusted to NOT hearing Mr. Ravenscroft, I had no problem accepting the new voice. The personality is intact.

The best things about the new show:

1. The team who handled this knows these characters and their past, and it all carries through. I was worried that they’d go too far with the rumored “Grand Ol’ Opry” style, but this show feels like a natural, in-character follow-up to the Christmas Show and Vacation Hoedown. Nothing feels jarring or out of place.
2. The return of Rufus! Keeping the continuity flowing, as this show takes place after Vacation Hoedown, Rufus the sleepy unseen stage hand (and original occupant of Brer Bear’s Splash Mtn. cave at DL) remains employed, adding some Muppet-Show-Like backstage mayhem to the proceedings.
3. Max, Buff and Melvin are a bigger part of the show than ever! These three beloved talking heads really get a chance to shine here, adding liveliness and humor to the seating process, the exit process, and everything in between. They take part-in some way-in just about every song, and Buff’s quick, wonderful groaner of a Dad Joke (You feel he’s waited fifty years for a chance to finally use it) gets one the show’s biggest laughs.
4. The Disney Song element is nicely downplayed. The show starts with an original new intro song and closes with the CBJ classic, “Come Again.” The word “Disney” is never used, and the chosen countrified Disney songs are each perfect (or hilariously wrong) for the characters who perform them; the Disney film aspect is never intrusive. Most importantly, this comes across as a themed Country Bear Show (in line with Christmas and Vacation Hoedown) not a show with Disney shoehorned into it.
5. The refreshed animatronics look fantastic, and Max, Buff and Melvin no longer make clicking sounds as they animate.
6. This show took my least favorite Disney song ever, “Fixer Upper,” and used it in a context that made me smile.

It all works. There are no misfires. The show is joyous, playful, light on its feet and proud of its history and cast.

I was originally skeptical, but now I truly believe this revamp is a genuinely smart move that, by presenting its country humor in the context of familiar Disney songs, makes the show more mass-audience friendly. All four performances I attended played to full houses, and the crowds laughed and applauded throughout.

I'm glad you liked it, but I remain nervous.

The incorporation of Rufus, an element never included in the original show but associated with the shows that got more play in California, doesn't reassure me in the slightest; it in fact confirms my suspicions that the biggest "problem" with CBJ for some people in Imagineering is that people at Disneyland specifically didn't like the original show or the whole enterprise enough, and so now we have "fixed" it by not only bringing it more in line with what corporate Disney expects of their parks, but somehow have ALSO found a way to make it more like Disneyland's when that wasn't at all what people in Florida asked for, given that they (rightly) rejected Vacation Hoedown when it played in Florida originally.

I'm sure this sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but given all of the pointless time and energy wasted over the last thirty years to make Magic Kingdom more and more like Disneyland, the "correct" version of the US castle park, for reasons that satisfy only people in Burbank and the cottage industry of people who have nothing better to do but complain on the internet about how Disneyland is automatically good and Magic Kingdom is automatically bad, I don't think it's THAT off base or easily dismissible to come to such a conclusion.

 

[Rich T]

I'm glad you liked it, but I remain nervous.

The incorporation of Rufus, an element never included in the original show but associated with the shows that got more play in California, doesn't reassure me in the slightest; it in fact confirms my suspicions that the biggest "problem" with CBJ for some people in Imagineering is that people at Disneyland specifically didn't like the original show or the whole enterprise enough, and so now we have "fixed" it by not only bringing it more in line with what corporate Disney expects of their parks, but somehow have ALSO found a way to make it more like Disneyland's when that wasn't at all what people in Florida asked for, given that they (rightly) rejected Vacation Hoedown when it played in Florida originally.

I'm sure this sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but given all of the pointless time and energy wasted over the last thirty years to make Magic Kingdom more and more like Disneyland, the "correct" version of the US castle park, for reasons that satisfy only people in Burbank and the cottage industry of people who have nothing better to do but complain on the internet about how Disneyland is automatically good and Magic Kingdom is automatically bad, I don't think it's THAT off base or easily dismissible to come to such a conclusion.

Here’s my take: I love both the original CBJ and VH, and I love this show (Christmas was ok, but by far my least favorite CB show).

Marc Davis created a wonderful fantasy world of diverse musical moonshine-swigging bears trying against all odds and their own quirks to put on a successful ongoing show. In contrast to America Sings or even Tiki Room, these characters and their setting really come alive with implied backstory and really lend themselves to further adventures together. I LOVE this factor—this is lightning-in-a-bottle world building unlike anything else in theme park history. For me, each new show—so far—has successfully added more depth to both the world and these comical characters. I love Rufus—particularly the fact that he’s never seen (he’s only used briefly near the start of CBMJ). His audio presence adds another layer to the illusion that there are bears walking around backstage in this music hall.

Now, if Disney has decided that original CBJ is—attendance numbers aside—problematic, I would rather see a new show that keeps the personality and world of the bears alive rather than a heavily-edited/censored version of the original (or worse, a demolished attraction). And what they’ve created here with Musical Jamboree is, (IMO) a loving, fun and believably in-character new chapter—Which is so much better than what I feared might happen!

Trixie’s a good example of what they’ve done: So, no fat jokes allowed anymore, right? Then what is Trixie’s new defining characteristic in the show? In CBMJ they’ve come up with a great solution: As she sings an appropriate song about never giving up, we’re treated to a very funny slide show detailing her slapstick troubles in discovering her purpose in life (and by extension how she came to join the CB troupe) that winds up being very sweet and the most we’ve ever been told about who she really is.

BTW, Trixie’s scene, now that I think about it, has a major staging problem that I hope they can somehow address in the future.

Spoiler

She’s where she’s always been. The slide show is where it’s always been. We can’t watch both at once.

Anyway, I don’t know if you’ll enjoy CBMJ, but… at least the characters’ futures at MK are safe for a while longer.

 

[Epcot81Fan]

Just checking, do the bears still sing “A Whole New World”?

 

[Rich T]

Just checking, do the bears still sing “A Whole New World”?

Yes. Played purely for laughs.

Spoiler

Because it’s Wendell singing like Wendell

It’s possibly the weirdest and funniest moment in the show.

 

[Epcot81Fan]

Yes. Played purely for laughs. It’s possibly the weirdest and funniest moment in the show.

Well, that’s one way to put it.