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The Miscellaneous Thought Thread
- Thread starter mickEblu
- Start date
NobodyElse
Well-Known Member
Jon Landau, Oscar-winning 'Titanic' and 'Avatar' producer, dies at 63
Jon Landau, Oscar-winning 'Titanic' and 'Avatar' producer, dies at 63
Landau's career spanned nearly four decades, during which he championed innovative filmmaking and pushed the boundaries of visual effects.
abc7.com
SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
This seems particularly tacky and weird. Cast Members in uniform passing out anti-Disney union buttons and leaflets describing how they are "fighting oppression" from Disney at the entrance to Disneyland as their contract negotiations drag on.
Why even bother pretending it's a "show" any more?
Disneyland union hands out Mickey Mouse raised fist buttons to theme park visitors
Disney cast members asked arriving theme park visitors to sign a petition in support of union contract negotiations seeking fair wages.www.ocregister.com
"Disneyland’s largest union coalition took its fight for a pay raise to the streets by handing out Mickey Mouse raised fist buttons to visitors entering the Anaheim theme park.
Disneyland union employees distributed buttons on Monday, July 1 with the Disney icon’s white gloved hand raised in a fist as a symbol of fighting oppression and asked arriving theme park visitors to sign a petition in support of union contract negotiations seeking fair wages.
Cast members, Disney parlance for employees, handed out the buttons with Mickey’s cartoon fist at the corner of Harbor Boulevard and Disney Way while wearing their theme park uniforms."
Potrock should be directing Ops and costuming to figure out the logistics of building new locker rooms, change areas, and costuming areas for Disneyland and DCA and prohibiting CM's from taking their costumes off property as soon as possible. Such a bad look. Not to mention a resort wide initiative to figure out how to get these CM's to actually be decent employees.
A good friend of mine works attractions and said they're expecting a strike. Could be interesting to see if and how this develops.
Didn't the CM's get the 'fair wages' they were asking for a few years ago? What's the number they want so that we don't have to hear about this every couple years? Since Disneyland is now beholden to the Anaheim Fair Wage act thing from a few years ago, aren't they legally required to be paying a fair wage already?
What's even happened to Disneyland's workforce the last decade? They're frumpy, unkempt, and have no sense of how to deliver customer service. This is in part a failure of recruiting, it's in part a failure of management, and it's in part a failure of the union- that should be working to make sure the union members are exemplary employees. This is not that.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Do you not see the inherent contradictions in all of this?
The costumes being taken home is not an issue of logistics. Disney didn’t want to pay people for the time involved in getting a new costume every day and changing. Disney doesn’t want to pay for enough costumes available in the right sizes that are in demand so that it would be easy to get a costume every day without penalty.
Disney paying well and but also treating employees well is how they would attraction and retain top of the line staff.
It took me long after working there to realize that I was being cheated. You were to be at your location at your shift start time but were given 15 minutes "walking time" at the end. They should have been paying us for standing in line for our costumes and changing into them. Maybe they couldn't get away with that any more?
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Seems like to me as soon as you show up for costuming, you are working. It doesn't matter if it takes you fifteen minute more to get to the other end of the park. What stupid low level manager came up with that idea?
I suppose the statute of limitations is up.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
They could not. Allowing cast members to take costumes home was the concession instead of paying for the time involved.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Around the same time Disney did it seems to be about the same time when the rest of the industry starting doing it as well. I remember working summers in the early 90s at my local amusement park where we had to go to costuming daily just like Disney. The next summer we were given two pairs of everything and asked to only come back to costuming when we needed replacements/repairs/etc. They did however offer to still launder our costumes if we requested it though, so that was nice.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
This is factually incorrect. Disney is now paying CM's more time than they were in the 20th century.
They are still paying what CM's call "walk time". Prior to DCA opening in 2001, it was 15 minutes of paid time at the end of your shift. For at least the past two decades, Disneyland increased the amount of "walk time" to 20 minutes.
Every hourly CM in Anaheim gets 20 minutes of paid "walk time" at the end of every single shift, allegedly to account for the need of going to the costuming department to exchange/check out new costumes. So if your off time is 6:00 PM, you are released from your shift every day at 5:40 PM and can head to your car, go to costuming, meet your friends at the CM backstage Starbucks, etc. and you still get paid as if you were off at 6:00 PM.
I would imagine the extra 15 minutes of paid time each day on the back end was to make up for the time it takes to change out of your costumes in the locker rooms they used to have near the CM exit off Harbor Blvd. They didn't do anything with paying you early because, using a very 20th century frame of mind, an employee is expected to get ready for work on their own time. Whether that's a stewardess doing her hair, makeup and uniform to comply with company standards before she drives to the airport, an Edison lineman putting on his boots, harness, hardhat and toolbelt before he clocks in to go to the truck, or a Disneyland CM doing their hair, makeup and uniform to comply with company standards before they walk over to Casa De Fritos.
Is the expectation of 21st century employees now that a company must pay them for the time it takes to shower, groom, dress in uniform, and prepare themselves to adhere to company standards prior to the start of their shift?
It seems the 21st century standard of 20 minutes of "walk time" is more appropriate, especially considering there are satellite parking logistics now involved for many CM's.
But they're paying more with today's 20 minutes of "walk time" compared to the previous 15 minutes of "walk time" when CM's had to leave their costumes on property and had dramatically higher standards of grooming and appearance than they do today.
How much more should they lower standards? Just issue everyone a Disneyland logo polo shirt, and ask the CM's to supply their own khaki pants and tennis shoes?
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
What, NO Boston Lobster Rolls…??
From the city where the American Revolution began..?
You know I wouldn't dare try that in the desert southwest, 2,500 miles from the nearest Stop N' Shop! There are some things which are sacred, and should only be attempted in their rightful place. It's like champagne can only come from the Champagne region of France, and everything else is just sparkling wine. A real New England lobster roll can only come from New England.
That said.... I did recently find a recipe for a "San Diego Lobster Roll" on YouTube that looks delicious! I am heading to the beach house this week until late August, and I'm going to make these for some friends next weekend and see how it goes! Wish me luck, but know that I will only call them "San Diego Lobster Rolls" and I will explain to the party guests that these are mere imitations of something superior on the other side of the continent.
Wishing you a great 4th regardless, TP!
Thank you, my dear! My 4th weekend was fabulous, how was yours?! Bringing up Boston again, one of my all-time favorite memories is going to the Boston Pops concerts on the 4th along the Charles River. Oh. My. Gosh. What an absolutely incredible show that always was!!! Just gives you goosebumps, and when they'd crash into the 1812 Overture and those cannons would go BOOM!, it was just magical. Truly magical, rivaling the best of Disneyland.
Have you done the Boston Pops concert on the 4th ever? Please say yes!
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I just checked online, and Disneyland states that in 2024 their unskilled jobs have starting wages from $19.90 to $24.15 per hour. I would imagine since Attractions ride ops are always in high demand, those are the ones starting at $19.90 currently for 18 year olds hired in off the street. The less in demand jobs in food service, custodial, parking, etc. probably have the higher starting wages up to $24.15.
Disneyland says they have "many roles" for skilled positions that start above $25.00 per hour, but your average 18 to 20 year old isn't going to qualify for those and would start in an unskilled position between $20 to $24 per hour.
The last time this specific union had a contract negotiation was in 2018, and their fight was to get a "fair wage" of $15 per hour, which they achieved in the fall of '18. Using the inflation calculator, $15 in 2018 would be $18.76 in 2024.
So, adjusted for inflation, CM's currently are being paid at least $1 more than what their "fair wage" was in 2018.
Or, put another way, an 18 year old CM working in Disneyland Attractions who started this summer at $19.90 per hour would be the equivalent of making $15.91 per hour in 2018. A CM working in Disneyland food service or custodial who starts at $23 per hour in 2024, would be the equivalent of making $18.39 per hour in 2018.
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It's so disheartening to see how low the CM standards have fallen.
And yet, the purposeful lowering of standards by TDA management purposely widens the labor pool and depresses wages. That's basic Econ 101 stuff, but so many CM's don't get it.
Good points. I guess I'm differentiating between getting ready at home for your shift vs. needing to be at work by a certain time to prepare. Why is leaving compensated but not arriving? Sadly, if you're right they shouldn't get either.This is factually incorrect. Disney is now paying CM's more time than they were in the 20th century.
They are still paying what CM's call "walk time". Prior to DCA opening in 2001, it was 15 minutes of paid time at the end of your shift. For at least the past two decades, Disneyland increased the amount of "walk time" to 20 minutes.
Every hourly CM in Anaheim gets 20 minutes of paid "walk time" at the end of every single shift, allegedly to account for the need of going to the costuming department to exchange/check out new costumes. So if your off time is 6:00 PM, you are released from your shift every day at 5:40 PM and can head to your car, go to costuming, meet your friends at the CM backstage Starbucks, etc. and you still get paid as if you were off at 6:00 PM.
I would imagine the extra 15 minutes of paid time each day on the back end was to make up for the time it takes to change out of your costumes in the locker rooms they used to have near the CM exit off Harbor Blvd. They didn't do anything with paying you early because, using a very 20th century frame of mind, an employee is expected to get ready for work on their own time. Whether that's a stewardess doing her hair, makeup and uniform to comply with company standards before she drives to the airport, an Edison lineman putting on his boots, harness, hardhat and toolbelt before he clocks in to go to the truck, or a Disneyland CM doing their hair, makeup and uniform to comply with company standards before they walk over to Casa De Fritos.
Is the expectation of 21st century employees now that a company must pay them for the time it takes to shower, groom, dress in uniform, and prepare themselves to adhere to company standards prior to the start of their shift?
It seems the 21st century standard of 20 minutes of "walk time" is more appropriate, especially considering there are satellite parking logistics now involved for many CM's.
But they're paying more with today's 20 minutes of "walk time" compared to the previous 15 minutes of "walk time" when CM's had to leave their costumes on property and had dramatically higher standards of grooming and appearance than they do today.
How much more should they lower standards? Just issue everyone a Disneyland logo polo shirt, and ask the CM's to supply their own khaki pants and tennis shoes?
TP2000
Well-Known Member
If you use the first 45 years of Disneyland's operation as a standard, and 15 minutes of extra paid time per shift was given to CM's then, perhaps today with satellite parking and such it would be appropriate to give 30 minutes of paid time per shift.
But to qualify for that, they would need to reset expectations and regulations back to a 20th century standard....
No costumes may be taken off property, each CM gets a locker to store personal items and their street clothes, changing rooms are built for CM's in DCA and rebuilt for Disneyland. You must arrive on time in costume and ready to work at your start time, but at the end of your shift you are released 30 minutes early to go back to the locker room to change, exchange/check out new costume for your next shift, walk to the shuttle bus to your parking lot, etc.
It seems the 20 minutes of paid "walk time" that CM's now get was given to them to accommodate the reality of satellite parking and shuttle buses. If CM's can now just keep all their uniforms at home, and roll into work in wrinkled pants and shirts and they still get to leave 20 minutes early from every shift, that seems incredibly generous.
You can't tell me a 2020's CM like this spent more than 10 minutes getting ready for his "Role In The Show"....
On the flip side, this 1960's Cast Member working the exact same attraction as the CM above, probably spent at least 30 minutes getting ready for her shift. That hairdo didn't bouffant itself, you know!
Architectural Guinea Pig
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
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Feel the pure, eternal, miscellaneous glory
TP2000
Well-Known Member
From that Disneyland employment website I linked above, here's how Disneyland is advertising their current 2024 pay rates and opportunities for advancement. These two CM's start in an entry-level role off the street at $21.25 or $24.15 per hour, with obvious growth opportunities to earn more and/or have Disney help pay for their college or trade school.
Skilled roles like Electricians are staring at $37.00 currently, which seems like a great advertisement for young men to go to a couple years of trade school instead of spending a lot more money and two extra years to get a Bachelors degree in Peruvian Pottery or Gender Studies.
And maybe their first task at $37 per hour could be replacing the burned out light bulbs on Space Mountain's re-entry tunnel?
Back in 2018, when this same union wanted (and got) a "Fair Wage" of $15 per hour, adjusted for inflation a starting wage of $21.25 would be $17 per hour, and a starting wage of $24.15 would be $19.30 per hour back in 2018.
@SuddenStorm, you work for Marriott, how does that starting rate of $28.65 for Hotel Guest Services compare in your opinion?
Skilled roles like Electricians are staring at $37.00 currently, which seems like a great advertisement for young men to go to a couple years of trade school instead of spending a lot more money and two extra years to get a Bachelors degree in Peruvian Pottery or Gender Studies.
And maybe their first task at $37 per hour could be replacing the burned out light bulbs on Space Mountain's re-entry tunnel?
Back in 2018, when this same union wanted (and got) a "Fair Wage" of $15 per hour, adjusted for inflation a starting wage of $21.25 would be $17 per hour, and a starting wage of $24.15 would be $19.30 per hour back in 2018.
@SuddenStorm, you work for Marriott, how does that starting rate of $28.65 for Hotel Guest Services compare in your opinion?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
It’s all just lumped together as one single payment.
It’s also not specifically just about getting in and out of costume. The term “walk time” refers very much to just walking. Cast members cannot just park out and front and be at their shift in less than a minute. At Walt Disney World, Cast Members working at the Magic Kingdom get additional compensation not offered at the other parks because they have to park off site from the park.
Insisting that Cast Members only get 20 minutes of walk time and get changed at work would be a demand for uncompensated time. It was a bad practice and it shouldn’t be brought back. If you want people doing a bunch of extra stuff at work then they should be paid for that time.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Paying people for getting dressed/groomed each day and their commute time to their workplace? Can you think of an industry that does that? I can't, but maybe there's something out there I'm not aware of.
Obviously Disneyland has, for many decades, paid its hourly CM's a block of time to help make up for work duties of changing into/out of their themed costumes on property. Back in your day (ahem), it was 15 minutes of paid time at the end of each shift. For the past few decades now it's been 20 minutes of paid time at the end of each shift. They tack it onto the end because it's easier to manage, and prevents CM's from showing up an hour early and then claiming they needed that extra hour of pay to "get ready".
The closest analogy to being a Disneyland CM I think would be those working at airports or for airlines. That invariably means wearing a company uniform and adhering to stricter than usual appearance and grooming standards (that Disneyland no longer follows, by the way). A flight crew or a ticket agent working for Delta often will need to park at a satellite lot, shuttle in, and then often traverse a large airport facility to get to their specific work location. And they need to have dressed in their formal uniforms and done hair/makeup to company standards before they arrive at that clock in location.
With Disneyland's current CM grooming standards that are dramatically lower than they were in the past, and with CM's being able to take home several costumes at a time to put on at home, it seems that 20 minutes of paid time at the end of every shift is generous.
If Disneyland were to go back to their old and much higher standards for CM appearance and showmanship, and thus keep all costumes on property and hold CM's to a higher standard again, it would seem that 30 minutes of paid time at the end of every shift would be appropriate, owing to the satellite parking/shuttle experience.
I can't imagine any company actually pays their employees to commute to the worksite and/or get ready for work, with paid time starting before you have begun actual work. Can anyone think of an example of that?
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