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The Mandalorian
- Thread starter Mike S
- Start date
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I'm not crying, you're crying.
I'll be sobbing like a baby when that episode airs.
<helmet off> "Luke may have been your force-father, but he wasn't your daddy."
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
With a much shorter time between films, I'm not sure it hits the same highs. So while I think it's safe as well, if the films budget is still so big, 1.5 billion won't be that great.
I agree. That was my point. You can't always tell either way. But it can be a good indicator of how popular something is. Personally I think it's pretty easy to tell when something hits the pop culture spotlight. It's not a scientific thing by any means, it's just something you can see.
Screamface
Well-Known Member
The PT defined and expanded Star Wars in a massive way and people were there for it. You can criticise the plotting, dialogue and acting. YET there is so much to enjoy and live about the world of Star Wars created in those films.
The sequels expanded nothing. They added nothing. If anything they did the opposite and contracted the world of Star Wars.
It's like the criticism of the Avatar films, yeah you can criticise the plots, but damn people liked the world brought to them on screen.
Grogu is such a limited character though. He's a novelty and overusing him will only highlight those flaws. What growth can there ever be for him? It's not like they can ever have him talking and growing up. It will just be a baby getting more and more superpowers.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I disagree with this, but I'm not going to get into it too much. I personally felt there was an expansion of the Star Wars Universe and what it meant to be a force user. I think it would be interesting to see what would happen to these characters in another 5-10 years.
How and why is he limited? Who says he can't ever talk? There is so little known about this species that they could literally do anything with him. They can make up whatever rules they want to about his growth.
Heck I wouldn't even be surprised if they decide to age him up toward the end of S3 giving him more autonomy including full speech. We already know there is a S4 being written now, so they can do whatever they want with him.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I actually think you ironically are illustrating his point. Avatar was (and is) popular. People are entirely too quick to dismiss it because it doesnāt sell much merch or have internet memes or get quoted much. But the very strong box office of 2 in addition to the popularity of the land is IMHO very clearly indicative of how well regarded the franchise is. I think part of the disconnect is that the movies have a strong following among a wide variety of ages including an older set that does not contribute as much to internet discussions or what is perceived as āmainstreamā popularity. Itās like when a TV show gets a rep for āno one watches thatā among bloggers because itās not in their sphere of interests. and yet constantly gets high ratings.
Iām not sure there is a comprehensive way to determine a pop culture footprint, but I do think that different things leave their mark in different ways and with different people. Even though they have a place in discussions about showing how popular an IP is, stuff like toy sales or Halloween costumes arenāt āeverythingā.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Huh? Canāt speak for anyone else but I know Iām really invested in seeing how Grogu changes and grows and look forward to maybe seeing him as an āadultā.
Screamface
Well-Known Member
What did they do to expand what it meant to be a force user?
All I can think of was the meme from defenders of TLJ about Rey being no one, but that just was coming of the coattails of, "everyone can be a spiderman is a good message" and then got undone in the next film.
The whole gimmick is that he's a cute baby. Beyond some baby vocabulary, he won't be talking. They ain't going to be aging him like Goot. The progressed his storyline to a conclusion. Then clearly panicked and brought him back right away in another TV show. They're going to be so protective to not stuff up the appeal. It'll just be more of a baby. He'll progress a little bit. Then be in the, "who is protecting who" but it'll be both are.
It would have been so much better to have let Mando explore his storylines and reintroduce the character later down the line. After he remembers his training and expands on it. But no, they had to get the baby back right away.
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
My point wasn't about popularity. The movies don't make what they have without it being popular. Pop culture impact is different. What legacy did the first movie leave outside of box office?
Like I said, it's not something you can scientifically quantify. But what I can say is you just had to look around. I never saw people wearing Avatar tshirts, kids playing with toys, kids dressing up on Halloween, merch in stores, no cosplayers at the comicons I've been to. Again, nothing scientific. Maybe this movie sparks that. There's a new video game coming, that isn't just a movie rehash so that's a start.
the third Film will make at the very least 2 billion. These are not the types of movies people will wait for streamingā¦they are must see in the theater filmsā¦not just that but must see it on the best format possible.
Also I would guess the budget is lower for the 3rd. James had to invent new technology for the Way Of Water and both 2 & 3 were filmed at the same time. So now they have 2 years to worry about the VFX
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Iām not gonna doubt cameronā¦heās a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. What he says, goes
It would he nice if he lent his juice to more Disney theme park projectsā¦not just the avatar land
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Right after the suspending the laser blast, he is immediately made fun of by Poe. Vader would have killed him instantly. When killing Solo, he hesitates before doing it and is racked with grief after. He tries to do it again with Leia but again hesitates and doesn't go through with it. It takes a stormtrooper to do it. Vader on the other hand had no problem killing Luke on the trench run and only let Luke survive during their duel because he needed Luke to help overthrow the Emperor so they could rule the galaxy as father and son.
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
There's a strong subset of the population who gravitate towards familiarity and comfort. I think maybe we're just built a little differently or had more change thrust upon us in childhood? It also speaks to a lack of resiliency.
This is not a defence that Star Wars has been handled to perfection by any means, just that change isn't always so bad - see Andor (tonally the most distinct, adult and HBO like Star Wars has ever been).
I'm not just harping on this forum here, it's the same for every 'fan group'. People are actively losing their minds on Royal Caribbean because their menus changed and they cannot get the same thing over and over daily to fill their (self admitted) picky eating habits as an adult.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
I really had no problem with Grogu coming immediately back. His leaving Mando actually felt more like a character betrayal to the arc they were building. He was no longer a job, he was a found family. The show is really about fatherhood, which is ironic since the main films are littered with bad fathers.
I don't think he will age much physically, but there's no reason his language could not suddenly start proliferating. His receptive language skills are currently way beyond his expressive. Once the expression starts it will rapidly explode. Grogu is an evergreen character for Disney, he has plot armour. They can take Star Wars significantly out in the future now beyond the sequel trilogy and have him appear. Just like Yoda can be a stalwart for the High Republic.
That said, if this show ends with Grogu saying "daddy" for the first time over a dying Din I might not recover.
I don't think he will age much physically, but there's no reason his language could not suddenly start proliferating. His receptive language skills are currently way beyond his expressive. Once the expression starts it will rapidly explode. Grogu is an evergreen character for Disney, he has plot armour. They can take Star Wars significantly out in the future now beyond the sequel trilogy and have him appear. Just like Yoda can be a stalwart for the High Republic.
That said, if this show ends with Grogu saying "daddy" for the first time over a dying Din I might not recover.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
Vader was mocked several times in 4 and only kills nameless Rebel soldiers. He's their big lumbering weapon that the Imperials roll their eyes at. "There goes Darth talking about believing in crystals again. Sure buddy."
Kylo is wanting to be a ruthless and respected leader, but he isn't there yet. His humanity holds him at bay. That's what makes him incredibly interesting to watch. He is conflicted. Yes, he hesitates before killing his dad. That is interesting! He is wracked by grief for doing so and shoves it down into a bottled rage. That's great character development!
As for Vader not having a problem killing Luke in Ep 4, why would he? Luke wasn't his son at that point. Vader had killed Luke's dad, but they weren't one and the same until the retcon of the next film. Vader's character changed greatly between 4 and 5 because Lucas wanted to make some changes to the original idea. We see the same this with almost the entire squad between 5 and 6.
I love the OT, but I laugh when people hold the other trilogies to the flame while ignoring the numerous plot holes and janky decisions in the OT. None of the films are perfect and that's totally okay. They are beloved and a blast to watch.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Exactly, the series echos Lone Wolf and Cub, its a father/son journey story always has been.
I think they certainly can have Grogu start talking at any point. It was already established that he understands language and has thoughts and feeling in his Jedi mind conversations with Ahsoka and Luke. Its been theorized that he can talk but the trauma of Order 66 is what is causing him to be mute. So there is nothing preventing him from starting to verbalize speech this season or the next other than plot.
Also as I pointed out earlier there is so little known about his species that they can make up anything they want.