The Mandalorian

[Phroobar]

I've wondered if they will ever tell this information ever since I saw Yaddle in the awful PT. Lucas has said himself that he never even bothered to come up with a backstory to a character that he did not feel would be as popular as Yoda became.

Yaddle recently got a backstory in the recent Tales of the Jedi CW one offs. She hears Sidious and Dooku's plans and Dooku kills her. That is why you never see her after Episode one. she actually has a pretty cool comic book back story where she lives as a captive in a pit for over a hundred years.

 

[Phroobar]

Honestly this idea that lack of toy sales equals lack of popularity has been seriously played out.

Tell that to the huge amount of Lightyear crap warming those pegs. How else do you measure the popularity or cultural impact of a character or franchise? Can't have it both ways.

 

[Disney Irish]

With the ease of online shopping and international connectivity…are you sure?

My Star Wars collection used to be based on what Kmart randomly had on the shelf that day…or Six months…because the truck didn’t come that often.

Things have changed to a degree…but if you think they didnt by LFL to sell Star Wars product…whew…then it’s gonna be a long day

Disney total made $56.2B in license sales in 2021, up only $1.2B from 2019 at $55B. Basically its been pretty flat for the past 5 years or so.

 

[Phroobar]

Disney total made $56.2B in license sales in 2021, up only $1.2B from 2019 at $55B. Basically its been pretty flat for the past 5 years or so.

Yet they raised prices on everything during that time. So they sold less product just to make the same cash. There is huge amount of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Andor stuff on the shelves that isn't going anywhere. I still see lots of vintage Landos laying around. Sad thing is we are missing most waves of stuff because Star Wars isn't selling. I personally buy direct from Hasbro Pulse or maybe Amazon for my collection. Retail is too clogged with Gorgu.

 

[Disney Irish]

Tell that to the huge amount of Lightyear crap warming those pegs. How else do you measure the popularity of a character? Can't have it both ways.

You're right can't have it both ways. This same argument was used to say how Avatar was a dead forgotten franchise and how the land wouldn't be popular in AK and how any sequel would fail, blah blah blah. And yet here we are with the sequel film about to hit $2B and just like the Energizer Bunny it keeps going and going and going, and the land is popular as ever.

Merch sales doesn't always equate one-to-one to popularity.

 

[Phroobar]

You're right can't have it both ways. This same argument was used to say how Avatar was a dead forgotten franchise and how the land wouldn't be popular in AK and how any sequel would fail, blah blah blah. And yet here we are with the sequel film about to hit $2B and just like the Energizer Bunny it keeps going and going and going, and the land is popular as ever.

Merch sales doesn't always equate one-to-one to popularity.

Totally agree.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney total made $56.2B in license sales in 2021, up only $1.2B from 2019 at $55B. Basically its been pretty flat for the past 5 years or so.

It would be a lot higher if they didn’t shank off the tee so much…
…just saying

 

[Professortango1]

Problem is Kylo is he is not a scary villain. He is more of straw man for the heroin.

Let's compare him to Darth Vader. Vader is strong, powerful, smart, unemotional, people fear him and he is intimidating. Vader is cold and efficient. You never see him without his mask until Luke takes it off. This guy doesn't have a problem with killing his own underlings for failing him. He is driven and wants revenge. He will go to any length to get what he wants. He is villain with teeth and willing to use them on everyone. The hero constantly gets beat by him or at least barely escapes. He is scary.

Kylo was great until he tried to question Poe. Poe starts making fun of him right off the bat. Poe would instantly die if he did that to Vader. Why does he accept snarky comments unchallenged? Kylo has temper tantrums. He makes dumb command decisions. He punishes people for logical questions. He is openly conflicted with the path he wants to take. He keeps taking his mask off destroying any mystery about him. He broods over his choices and hesitates on his actions. Kylo is weak and unsure what he wants. He gets beat way too easy by someone that never held a lightsaber before. In fact, every time he goes against the heroes, he loses. He is an emotional emo man child desperately pretending to be something he isn't. He is unable to commit to any course of action. He isn't powerful and unstoppable. He is a villain without teeth. What good is a hero when the villain is weak and easily stopped?

Vader would have Rey for lunch.

Vader was never very complex to me. In the first film, he was just the Emperor's Black Knight, the brute protecting the true big bad. He is mocked by his fellow officers. Giving a villain a son to humanize him is a standard trope and works okay for the next two films, but it still feels very surface level. He's got a great look and presence, but I can't help but seeing him as an Oddjob who had his importance manufactured larger for sequels.

I found Kylo far more interesting and scary as he was unhinged. He felt weak and was determined to prove his strength. He reminds me of the kind of kids who attack their school, but with an entire army and set of powers to use. He acts emotionally and not logically, and that's why it worked so well for me.

 

[Disney Irish]

It would be a lot higher if they didn’t shank off the tee so much…
…just saying

That is very hard to quantify and prove. So lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That is very hard to quantify and prove. So lets just agree to disagree.

Same as usual

 

[Phroobar]

Vader was never very complex to me. In the first film, he was just the Emperor's Black Knight, the brute protecting the true big bad. He is mocked by his fellow officers. Giving a villain a son to humanize him is a standard trope and works okay for the next two films, but it still feels very surface level. He's got a great look and presence, but I can't help but seeing him as an Oddjob who had his importance manufactured larger for sequels.

I found Kylo far more interesting and scary as he was unhinged. He felt weak and was determined to prove his strength. He reminds me of the kind of kids who attack their school, but with an entire army and set of powers to use. He acts emotionally and not logically, and that's why it worked so well for me.

Weak villains make for weak stories because they rob the narrative of it's tension and drama. That kind of villain undermines the hero because they are never really tested by a worthy opponent. They really haven't achieved anything. A hero is only as strong as the villain they beat. Traditionally storytelling dictates the antagonist starts out stronger than the hero. This forces the hero to grow and prove themselves someway before prevailing in the end. That makes for an interesting story.

All you really get is this:

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So vader sucks too, eh?

It’s starting to all make sense now

 

[Professortango1]

Weak villains make for weak stories because they rob the narrative of it's tension and drama. That kind of villain undermines the hero because they are never really tested by a worthy opponent. They really haven't achieved anything. A hero is only as strong as the villain they beat. Traditionally storytelling dictates the antagonist starts out stronger than the hero. This forces the hero to grow and prove themselves someway before prevailing in the end. That makes for an interesting story.

Kylo started by suspending a laser blast in midair, he's clearly not weak. He then murders his own father to prove that he's willing to destroy his own humanity in order to appear ruthless and kill off his own morality. Kylo was one of the things that JJ did right in 7.

 

[Professortango1]

So vader sucks too, eh?

It’s starting to all make sense now

Maybe if you ask the other officers in 4, but no, Vader doesn't suck. He's great black knight character to hunt down our heroes. He works well for the OT.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe if you ask the other officers in 4, but no, Vader doesn't suck. He's great black knight character to hunt down our heroes. He works well for the OT.

What are your top 3 movies?

If they seems like a trick question…it probably is

 

[Professortango1]

What are your top 3 movies?

If they seems like a trick question…it probably is

Of all time? It changes, but Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Who Framed Roger Rabbit are often in my top 5 whenever asked. Ed Wood is phenomenal as well.

This year? I had Glass Onion, Pearl, and The Barbarian as my top three I believe.

 

[erasure fan1]

Merch sales doesn't always equate one-to-one to popularity.

Of course not. Cars 2 sold craptons of merch and not many would say that was a popular film. In general, it is still a pretty good gauge of how something has resonated in pop culture.

This same argument was used to say how Avatar was a dead forgotten franchise and how the land wouldn't be popular in AK and how any sequel would fail.

A lot of people scratched their heads as to why Disney went with an Avatar land. And you can't really blame them. Avatar left about as small of a pop culture footprint as I've ever seen. The land is popular because it has what is considered a great ride and fantastic theming. Avatar itself wasn't really the key to the lands success.

I personally don't remember a lot of this movie will fail. I think most thought at worst, it would be a moderate hit. It's the 3rd movie that I wonder about.

 

[DKampy]

Vader was never very complex to me. In the first film, he was just the Emperor's Black Knight, the brute protecting the true big bad. He is mocked by his fellow officers. Giving a villain a son to humanize him is a standard trope and works okay for the next two films, but it still feels very surface level. He's got a great look and presence, but I can't help but seeing him as an Oddjob who had his importance manufactured larger for sequels.

I found Kylo far more interesting and scary as he was unhinged. He felt weak and was determined to prove his strength. He reminds me of the kind of kids who attack their school, but with an entire army and set of powers to use. He acts emotionally and not logically, and that's why it worked so well for me.

100% agree with this

 

[DKampy]

Of course not. Cars 2 sold craptons of merch and not many would say that was a popular film. In general, it is still a pretty good gauge of how something has resonated in pop culture.

A lot of people scratched their heads as to why Disney went with an Avatar land. And you can't really blame them. Avatar left about as small of a pop culture footprint as I've ever seen. The land is popular because it has what is considered a great ride and fantastic theming. Avatar itself wasn't really the key to the lands success.

I personally don't remember a lot of this movie will fail. I think most thought at worst, it would be a moderate hit. It's the 3rd movie that I wonder about.

I think the 3rd is safe…most people like The Way of Water…even getting some people on board that did not care for the 1st….if anything Avatar is in a better place that it was a year ago

 

[Disney Irish]

Of course not. Cars 2 sold craptons of merch and not many would say that was a popular film. In general, it is still a pretty good gauge of how something has resonated in pop culture.

A lot of people scratched their heads as to why Disney went with an Avatar land. And you can't really blame them. Avatar left about as small of a pop culture footprint as I've ever seen. The land is popular because it has what is considered a great ride and fantastic theming. Avatar itself wasn't really the key to the lands success.

I personally don't remember a lot of this movie will fail. I think most thought at worst, it would be a moderate hit. It's the 3rd movie that I wonder about.

The point was that just because someone sees a bunch of toys of a certain character sitting at some Target or Walmart not sold out doesn't mean the character is "played out".

Grogu is one character from the Disney era of Star Wars that I'm pretty sure still resonates with people.