The Mandalorian

[Wendy Pleakley]

Grogu will need at

I really had no problem with Grogu coming immediately back. His leaving Mando actually felt more like a character betrayal to the arc they were building. He was no longer a job, he was a found family. The show is really about fatherhood, which is ironic since the main films are littered with bad fathers.

I don't think he will age much physically, but there's no reason his language could not suddenly start proliferating. His receptive language skills are currently way beyond his expressive. Once the expression starts it will rapidly explode. Grogu is an evergreen character for Disney, he has plot armour. They can take Star Wars significantly out in the future now beyond the sequel trilogy and have him appear. Just like Yoda can be a stalwart for the High Republic.


That said, if this show ends with Grogu saying "daddy" for the first time over a dying Din I might not recover.

For me I think I want there to be consequences of actions, and not have story points created only to be resolved immediately.

This show doesn't have a finite run time or schedule. Getting Grogu to Luke was the right choice. If reuniting is the right choice, why not spend a few episodes showing in more detail the consequences of what happened? Tell us why they ultimately end up back together instead of Grogu pursuing Jedi training.

Avengers handled this well. We knew the Thanos snap would ultimately by undone. However, it wasn't glossed over or done quickly. We had a five year consequence. We spent time seeing the effects. It resulted in good story and character development. It was something that served the larger story.

Would it have been more effective to have that time in the Mandalorian, to really flesh out what effect the separation had? I think so.

 

[Phroobar]

Vader was mocked several times in 4 and only kills nameless Rebel soldiers. He's their big lumbering weapon that the Imperials roll their eyes at. "There goes Darth talking about believing in crystals again. Sure buddy."

Kylo is wanting to be a ruthless and respected leader, but he isn't there yet. His humanity holds him at bay. That's what makes him incredibly interesting to watch. He is conflicted. Yes, he hesitates before killing his dad. That is interesting! He is wracked by grief for doing so and shoves it down into a bottled rage. That's great character development!

As for Vader not having a problem killing Luke in Ep 4, why would he? Luke wasn't his son at that point. Vader had killed Luke's dad, but they weren't one and the same until the retcon of the next film. Vader's character changed greatly between 4 and 5 because Lucas wanted to make some changes to the original idea. We see the same this with almost the entire squad between 5 and 6.

I love the OT, but I laugh when people hold the other trilogies to the flame while ignoring the numerous plot holes and janky decisions in the OT. None of the films are perfect and that's totally okay. They are beloved and a blast to watch.

Except Vader almost kills Admiral Motti on the Death Star for talking back to him. Tarkin was the only one that kept him on his "leash". When Tarkin was gone, Vader then kills two Imperial commanders for letting the rebels escape. Darth Vader is a fantastic villain for the reasons I already outlined. Kylo is no threat to anyone and a bad Disney villain. Imagine how much more amazing Rise of the Resistance would be with original trilogy characters. The ride would be scarier and the land more successful without Disney sequel characters. There really aren't any good scary powerful villains in new movies anymore.

 

[Professortango1]

Except Vader almost kills Admiral Motti on the Death Star for talking back to him. Tarkin was the only one that kept him on his "leash". When Tarkin was gone, Vader then kills two Imperial commanders for letting the rebels escape. Darth Vader is a fantastic villain for the reasons I already outlined. Kylo is no threat to anyone and a bad Disney villain. Imagine how much more amazing Rise of the Resistance would be with original trilogy characters. The ride would be scarier and the land more successful without Disney sequel characters. There really aren't any good scary powerful villains in new movies anymore.

Once again, fully disagree. Kylo Ren is far scarier and more interesting to me. Rise featuring OT characters would have just felt more dated to me. I love the OT, but I watch them as old movies from a different era like The Wizard of Oz or Rocky. New Hope came out almost 50 years ago. The generation who grew up with those films are not Disney's targeted demographic.

Galaxy's Edge with OT characters would still have the same problems the current land has; static empty stages, lack of interactive elements and characters, streets and paths made far too wide, lack of discovery. They looked at Wizarding World and copied the idea of a highly detailed lived-in land based on IP, but then did the opposite of everything that made Wizarding World work so well.

Rise is a great attraction. Swapping Kylo's 2 AA's for Vader doesn't change anything. Having 70's era Luke appear via hologram rather than Rey doesn't change anything. They ways to plus Rise involve adding more practical effects and sensations, not lateral moves of changing similar characters.

 

[Professortango1]

I don't see them aging Baby Yoda up for the sole reason that people are attached to "Baby Yoda." They don't care that his name is Grogu. People just want to fawn and aww over him. They finally got him into the parks and Disney isn't going to throw away that merch money to give us Adolescent Yoda. Plus, that takes more writing skill to pull off and keep interesting, and from what we saw with Season 2 and Boba Fett, they are looking to play the hits and keep things simple. I wouldn't be surprised if Chewie or some other character popped into Season 3 just to make people cheer.

 

[erasure fan1]

The generation who grew up with those films are not Disney's targeted demographic.

I hear this a lot on here. If that were the case, I don't think we get a full stop on theatrical star wars. They would have pushed right on by us OT-ers and the sequel stuff would be in full swing. But it isn't. Mando showed that casting a large net and making sure the OT fans matter, equals.

There's nothing wrong with targeting a new generation. But the biggest mistake you can make is doing it at the expense of the mainline fan. There's zero reason to not have made Galaxys edge a celebration of all star wars. Or focused the sequels on the OT characters first. It's a debate for the ages for sure.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't see them aging Baby Yoda up for the sole reason that people are attached to "Baby Yoda." They don't care that his name is Grogu. People just want to fawn and aww over him. They finally got him into the parks and Disney isn't going to throw away that merch money to give us Adolescent Yoda. Plus, that takes more writing skill to pull off and keep interesting, and from what we saw with Season 2 and Boba Fett, they are looking to play the hits and keep things simple. I wouldn't be surprised if Chewie or some other character popped into Season 3 just to make people cheer.

First they don't really need to age him up, although they can. And even if they did people would still call him Baby Yoda anyways, that is just a given.

The whole point of aging him up is if you are in the group that believes he has to in order to talk. But as I pointed out its already been established that he understands language and has thoughts and feelings and can make decisions of someone who would already talk. Its just that his traumatic experience from Order 66 has caused him to not speak, or so the theory goes.

Also there have been rumors of them working on a High Republic Era series for D+, which would include an adolescent Yoda.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I haven't been paying attention.

Is the new season of the Mandalorian on D+ now?

 

[MisterPenguin]

I haven't been paying attention.

Is the new season of the Mandalorian on D+ now?

Mar 1, 2023

The trailer for S3 is online now.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Mar 1, 2023

The trailer for S3 is online now.

Thanks! Looking forward to it!

 

[Professortango1]

First they don't really need to age him up, although they can. And even if they did people would still call him Baby Yoda anyways, that is just a given.

The whole point of aging him up is if you are in the group that believes he has to in order to talk. But as I pointed out its already been established that he understands language and has thoughts and feelings and can make decisions of someone who would already talk. Its just that his traumatic experience from Order 66 has caused him to not speak, or so the theory goes.

Also there have been rumors of them working on a High Republic Era series for D+, which would include an adolescent Yoda.

I don't know if he is capable of speech yet. He can garble and coo, but they are still playing him as an 8-12 month old.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't know if he is capable of speech yet. He can garble and coo, but they are still playing him as an 8-12 month old.

Its unknown the growth pattern of this species. All we know is he is 50 yrs old at the start of Season 1. That could be 1 year in human years, or could be 12. It has never been established. So I don't feel it as them playing him as an infant, but rather more about his backstory and backstory of the species.

But the fact that again he appears to have at least some sort of conversation with Ahsoka and Luke via Jedi mind connection shows he is at least capable of some sort of thoughts, feelings, and decision making abilities. Leading to potentially being able to speak but either unwilling or traumatically not being able to.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Mar 1, 2023

The trailer for S3 is online now.

42 days to nitpick previous seasons and air unrelated grievances about the sequel trilogy for the 937th time!

 

[erasure fan1]

42 days to nitpick previous seasons and air unrelated grievances about the sequel trilogy for the 937th time!

The sequels will be debated for many, many, many more years, and then some. It's like death and taxes, you just can't escape it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

42 days to nitpick previous seasons and air unrelated grievances about the sequel trilogy for the 937th time!

You're leaving out unfounded Disney/LucasFilm corporate drama.

 

[Professortango1]

Its unknown the growth pattern of this species. All we know is he is 50 yrs old at the start of Season 1. That could be 1 year in human years, or could be 12. It has never been established. So I don't feel it as them playing him as an infant, but rather more about his backstory and backstory of the species.

But the fact that again he appears to have at least some sort of conversation with Ahsoka and Luke via Jedi mind connection shows he is at least capable of some sort of thoughts, feelings, and decision making abilities. Leading to potentially being able to speak but either unwilling or traumatically not being able to.

I'm basing the implied age development off of how they have him experiencing the world. How they chose to have him walk, put things in his mouth, garble and coo, be attracted to shiny small objects, etc. They wrote him to emulate a toddler. He's like a slightly younger Gizmo as they had Gizmo able to parrot phrases. They haven't put anything in the show to lead me to think he can speak but is suffering from trauma. I know it has been supposed online as every aspect of Star Wars has been, but I'm just going off of what is in the actual show.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm basing the implied age development off of how they have him experiencing the world. How they chose to have him walk, put things in his mouth, garble and coo, be attracted to shiny small objects, etc. They wrote him to emulate a toddler. He's like a slightly younger Gizmo as they had Gizmo able to parrot phrases. They haven't put anything in the show to lead me to think he can speak but is suffering from trauma. I know it has been supposed online as every aspect of Star Wars has been, but I'm just going off of what is in the actual show.

You didn't see the episodes where he was having Jedi mind conversations with Ahsoka (where he gives his name) and Luke (where he decides he rather go back with Din than become a Jedi)?
You didn't see the episodes with the Jedi training with Luke?
You didn't see the episodes with the flashbacks to Order 66 (which happened when he was under 10 years old based on timelines)?

From the time he was captured after Order 66 to the time he was saved by Din he was held in captivity (apparently in stasis) and tested on, which is 40 years. This has been established in the episodes in the actual show. So just because he is introduced with characteristics of an infant or toddler doesn't mean he actually is one. Trauma, especially when involving captivity at a young age, tends to stunt ones growth.

Again there is no established growth timeline for his species in canon, he is only the 3rd of his kind introduced. However if we go baesd on Yoda we do have some canon based timelines that can help us here. Yoda started in the Jedi order as a youngling, no age given on when he entered. As a youngling he jump across the lilypads same a Grogu during his Jedi training, established as canon. He started teaching other Jedi as a Master when he was age 100, established in canon, he obviously had to be able to talk in order to do that. So sometime between ages 0-100 this species learns to talk, again established canon. So its not that far-fetched to think that a member of this species at age 50 should have some ability to form words, let alone thoughts, feelings, and decision making abilities. Again based on the actual show he has at least thoughts, feelings, and decision making abilities.

So anyways, long story short, there isn't anything within the show or canon that states they can't have him speak at any point moving forward other than plot.

 

[Professortango1]

You didn't see the episodes where he was having Jedi mind conversations with Ahsoka (where he gives his name) and Luke (where he decides he rather go back with Din than become a Jedi)?
You didn't see the episodes with the Jedi training with Luke?
You didn't see the episodes with the flashbacks to Order 66 (which happened when he was under 10 years old based on timelines)?

From the time he was captured after Order 66 to the time he was saved by Din he was held in captivity (apparently in stasis) and tested on, which is 40 years. This has been established in the episodes in the actual show. So just because he is introduced with characteristics of an infant or toddler doesn't mean he actually is one. Trauma, especially when involving captivity at a young age, tends to stunt ones growth.

Again there is no established growth timeline for his species in canon, he is only the 3rd of his kind introduced. However if we go baesd on Yoda we do have some canon based timelines that can help us here. Yoda started in the Jedi order as a youngling, no age given on when he entered. As a youngling he jump across the lilypads same a Grogu during his Jedi training, established as canon. He started teaching other Jedi as a Master when he was age 100, established in canon, he obviously had to be able to talk in order to do that. So sometime between ages 0-100 this species learns to talk, again established canon. So its not that far-fetched to think that a member of this species at age 50 should have some ability to form words, let alone thoughts, feelings, and decision making abilities. Again based on the actual show he has at least thoughts, feelings, and decision making abilities.

So anyways, long story short, there isn't anything within the show or canon that states they can't have him speak at any point moving forward other than plot.

That's a lot of extrapolation from a variety of sources. I'm just pointing out that the show has written him as infantile. This was a deliberate decision. They can change that decision moving forward, but that's how they have chosen to present the character. Magical Furby is a slam dunk for a wide audience.

I would love to see him aged up. Its one of the things I applaud Gunn for doing with Groot. Baby Groot was insanely popular as well and Gunn could have just left him there to be the cute character and generate merch and memes. Instead, Gunn had the character change and grow. Its why I respect Gunn a ton, even in his sillier moments.

Do I see them going that route with Baby Yoda? Nope, just because the laziness of Season 2 and the reversal of the finale between seasons showed me that they are looking to give audiences what they want rather than evolve the story. I'd love to be wrong, I'm just going off of what they have shown me so far.

 

[Disney Irish]

That's a lot of extrapolation from a variety of sources. I'm just pointing out that the show has written him as infantile. This was a deliberate decision. They can change that decision moving forward, but that's how they have chosen to present the character. Magical Furby is a slam dunk for a wide audience.

I would love to see him aged up. Its one of the things I applaud Gunn for doing with Groot. Baby Groot was insanely popular as well and Gunn could have just left him there to be the cute character and generate merch and memes. Instead, Gunn had the character change and grow. Its why I respect Gunn a ton, even in his sillier moments.

Do I see them going that route with Baby Yoda? Nope, just because the laziness of Season 2 and the reversal of the finale between seasons showed me that they are looking to give audiences what they want rather than evolve the story. I'd love to be wrong, I'm just going off of what they have shown me so far.

The Yoda canon I used for timeline aside, they have established that Grogu is more than an infant just in the two seasons and in BoBF. The trailer alone even shows he is beyond that infant stage. So while I appreciate your opinion I really don't think you're looking beyond the cute factor (which I get).

So we'll see how S3 turns out, I'm just saying they've given us a lot to show this character is more than just being a cute baby plot device.

 

[BrianLo]

That's a lot of extrapolation from a variety of sources. I'm just pointing out that the show has written him as infantile. This was a deliberate decision. They can change that decision moving forward, but that's how they have chosen to present the character. Magical Furby is a slam dunk for a wide audience.

I would love to see him aged up. Its one of the things I applaud Gunn for doing with Groot. Baby Groot was insanely popular as well and Gunn could have just left him there to be the cute character and generate merch and memes. Instead, Gunn had the character change and grow. Its why I respect Gunn a ton, even in his sillier moments.

Do I see them going that route with Baby Yoda? Nope, just because the laziness of Season 2 and the reversal of the finale between seasons showed me that they are looking to give audiences what they want rather than evolve the story. I'd love to be wrong, I'm just going off of what they have shown me so far.

I don't disagree with you per say. Developmentally he's more on order of 16-18 months. His receptive language skills imply 2-3yo. He's toilet trained seemingly? His ambulation puts him around 2 or a bit younger, but some of that may be the frailty of his species body. Some of the force stuff confuses things mobility wise.

He SHOULD NOT age up. Not out of laziness or marketing, but it would ultimately be consistent with the longevity of the species. Humanity takes an inordinate amount of time to reach maturity and I would expect a theoretically more intelligent species to take longer.

All of which is to say that absolutely all of his developmental markers would suggest he is on the precipice of speech. I actually do think he is late to speech based on his attributes in the show, maybe the trauma theory has some merit. So they either may or may not choose to have him start speaking. Once expressive language starts though it should theoretically progress quickly over a few years, even if his body doesn't really follow.

Baby Yoda has always been a bit of a misnomer from the public, he is very much acting like a toddler.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don't disagree with you per say. Developmentally he's more on order of 16-18 months. His receptive language skills imply 2-3yo. He's toilet trained seemingly? His ambulation puts him around 2 or a bit younger, but some of that may be the frailty of his species body. Some of the force stuff confuses things mobility wise.

He SHOULD NOT age up. Not out of laziness or marketing, but it would ultimately be consistent with the longevity of the species. Humanity takes an inordinate amount of time to reach maturity and I would expect a theoretically more intelligent species to take longer.

All of which is to say that absolutely all of his developmental markers would suggest he is on the precipice of speech. I actually do think he is late to speech based on his attributes in the show, maybe the trauma theory has some merit. So they either may or may not choose to have him start speaking. Once expressive language starts though it should theoretically progress quickly over a few years, even if his body doesn't really follow.

Baby Yoda has always been a bit of a misnomer from the public, he is very much acting like a toddler.

Most of our mammalian friends age up rather quickly compared to humans. And this is even accounting for stretching or shrinking the lifespans in comparison.

E.g., most herd animals are up and walking the day they are born.

Humans, by comparison have a very lengthy period of prepubescent development of near helplessness for a big chunk of their lifespan.

If a cow can live for 20 years, and humans for 80, then we would expect human children to be walking on their own by their 5th day of life if development scaled linearly, which it obviously doesn't.

So, how do non-human species develop in relation to humans in the Star Wars universe? No one knows.

Grogu's species could be in the pre-school stage for 30 years or 200 years... we don't know.