Isn't it wonderful that the family wants him to get recognition!!! I mean think about he gets the recognition and they get the money!!! Isn't that just the sweetest thing? Give me a break!!!!! I think if they lose this case, they should have to pay for lawyers.............the justice system is out of hand!!! If this was to be believed, it should have been done a long, long time ago!!!!
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The latest lawsuit
- Thread starter wishiwere@wdw
- Start date
CAPTAIN HOOK
Well-Known Member
Lets just stand back a minute and look at the facts. This guy has copyrighted a lake with a globe in the middle with lots of representations of countries around the perimeter.
Disney builds a successful million $$ park with a similarity.
He does nothing while he is alive except cry when he sees Disneys park.
His family do nothing until after his death.
THIS STINKS.
The family weren't left a satisfactory amount when the old guy popped his clogs, they did nothing while he was alive so as not to hurt his feelings. And they've waited long enough to ensure there are $$ at the end of it all (if they're successful).
BUT, role the clock back 20 years - would YOU go to a park built by some unknown guy which featured a lake, a globe and some countries ????
ONLY Disney have the know how to make it work - definitely a case of sour grapes.
Disney builds a successful million $$ park with a similarity.
He does nothing while he is alive except cry when he sees Disneys park.
His family do nothing until after his death.
THIS STINKS.
The family weren't left a satisfactory amount when the old guy popped his clogs, they did nothing while he was alive so as not to hurt his feelings. And they've waited long enough to ensure there are $$ at the end of it all (if they're successful).
BUT, role the clock back 20 years - would YOU go to a park built by some unknown guy which featured a lake, a globe and some countries ????
ONLY Disney have the know how to make it work - definitely a case of sour grapes.
dreamer
New Member
Having an idea is not the same thing as bringing it to reality. Several other posts pointed that out very well. That is why Walt Disney was so great -- he didn't just have ideas he had the will and ability to make them real.
I agree that this guy would never have been able to create and theme a park that comes anywhere near Epcot. It's not just a ball and a lake and a few pavilions (well said, Captain) -- it's Disney!!! It's the millions of details, the inspiration, the RISK, the persistence and the know-how of putting it together that matter. Would any of YOU have invested in his idea if he was going to build it?
How much time did that guy spend promoting? Looking for investors? Etc? Etc? Etc? How much money did he RISK?
Go back to the monorail thread and look at all the whiney "it'll never happen posts." Enough to make you sick and then if Disney ever did expand the monorail everyone would be here saying, "Oh I had that idea."
(Ahem. Calm down.)
Boo hoo. If I got paid for every idea that I sat on that someone else took and made profitable, I'd be living full time at Beach Club Villas -- and then I would buy a length of stay mug because my length of stay would be permanent. (Actually I'd spend winters in Vail.)
It's not the idea -- it's the action!
leeocean
New Member
The World Showcase at Epcot is not a very unique concept. Disney just executed it very well. I'm not saying that Disney couldn't have pilfered the idea - I just think that it wasn't such a radical concept that two people couldn't have had the same idea. Plus, if he really believed he was to be credited with it, why wouldn't he file the lawsuit himself 20 years ago...greedy kids...I hope they lose HARD!
Money Money that all people want EPCOT was Walt Disney
idea it was his at the same time he planed Magic Kingdom
there was a Vidoe about Magic Kingdom and EPCOT and
it shows Walts Plan for the Parks and for a family to come
along and say it was there fathers to me its sick and for
this to even go to court is even sicker.
idea it was his at the same time he planed Magic Kingdom
there was a Vidoe about Magic Kingdom and EPCOT and
it shows Walts Plan for the Parks and for a family to come
along and say it was there fathers to me its sick and for
this to even go to court is even sicker.
dreamer
New Member
If Disney did get the EPCOT idea from this guy, he acted on it long before Epcot opened. He had extensive drawings of EPCOT before he died. You can see them in One Man's Dream. It will be interesting to find out the time line. Did Disney ever meet the guy? If so, did he make any drawings before? Or did they all come after?
As I understand, Walt's original plan was not so much for an amusement park but for an actual working community where people really lived and worked. Epcot sort of de-volved from that. (They dropped the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow.)
In all fairness, I think that if Disney DID get ideas from this guy, then they should pay his family a token. But I think we should all realize that Disney would have made EPCOT a major success even without the ball and lake.
On the other hand, is it possible this guy somehow got wind of Disney's plans and came up with Miniature World as a legal scam? After all he was in INTELLIGENCE. Spying was his profession, not imagineering!
As I understand, Walt's original plan was not so much for an amusement park but for an actual working community where people really lived and worked. Epcot sort of de-volved from that. (They dropped the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow.)
In all fairness, I think that if Disney DID get ideas from this guy, then they should pay his family a token. But I think we should all realize that Disney would have made EPCOT a major success even without the ball and lake.
On the other hand, is it possible this guy somehow got wind of Disney's plans and came up with Miniature World as a legal scam? After all he was in INTELLIGENCE. Spying was his profession, not imagineering!
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
Here's an interesting article from two years ago: http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/20000702epcot1.asp
Here
It really looks like the reason legal action was never taken before now was a lack of money and a lack of precidence. Not until after Disney was convicted of stealing ANOTHER park complex (Wide World of Sports) was there an opportunity to persue justice in this one.
Here
It really looks like the reason legal action was never taken before now was a lack of money and a lack of precidence. Not until after Disney was convicted of stealing ANOTHER park complex (Wide World of Sports) was there an opportunity to persue justice in this one.
ACE
New Member
Hey Bairstow, you're banging your head against the wall. Some people are blinded by their unnatural love for Disney. The same people who complain about the way Disney is run, or whine when an outdated ride or show is replaced, will still defend Disney even if the evidence proves otherwise. Kinda like Clinton fans.:lol:
We don't know the circumstances of why this man never tried to sue Disney. Heck for all we know he may have approached a dozen lawyers and they all told him that Disney couldn't be beat. Now we know better, but who knew 20 years ago.
Everybody loves Walt Disney, the man. We all love the parks he created but that doesn't mean every idea came from him or his employees.
I say, if you think too much time has past and this family shouldn't get a chance to present the evidence then fine, so be it. At the same time I say Mickey should be in the public domain along with any other characters whose copyright has ran it's course. Then Disney can't sue daycare centers for copyright infringement.
:wave: ACE
P.S. As for being on a Disney fan site. I didn't know undying devotion and blindness was a prerequisite to being a fan of Disney. I believe in right and wrong and letting the facts come out before passing judgement.
blm07
Active Member
Well this is what I think of the whole Lion King situation. I did a little internet searching, and found this page: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kimbawlion/rant2.htm
I think Disney did steal it, and that is sad. But I hate anime, and I grew up with the Disney version. That is the one I love and know. That is just what I think.
edit: I did a little searching on the forums to see if the whole Kimba thing has been discussed, and I saw that Bairstow had posted that website before. I did do a little searching on Yahoo to find the link. I just didn't wanna sound like I was copying it and taking credit
I think Disney did steal it, and that is sad. But I hate anime, and I grew up with the Disney version. That is the one I love and know. That is just what I think.
edit: I did a little searching on the forums to see if the whole Kimba thing has been discussed, and I saw that Bairstow had posted that website before. I did do a little searching on Yahoo to find the link. I just didn't wanna sound like I was copying it and taking credit
Testtrack321
Well-Known Member
What has been Disney's policey on looking at outside info? That IF they do look at it, it becomes property of the Walt Disney Company. Second, they don't do it other wise.
I want to know this
a.) How old are the paintings?
b.) Did he meet Walt or a group?
c.) Why so late?
I want to know this
a.) How old are the paintings?
b.) Did he meet Walt or a group?
c.) Why so late?
Testtrack321
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the 'blind' speech. Do you think someone who things Esiner has made some good decisions and being called 'un-Walt' on other boards is Disney blind?
My questions arn't on opninon, but on scientific knowldge. Can we date the painting? Why?
There are too many holes and big loose ends. Sure, theres a plan that looks like Epcot and he *supposedly* went to Walt (who then died). The origional plans were very differnt from what you see know, very, it's a matter of luck or someone rememberd this proposal.
But the two big holes are this:
a.) If the proposal was so cool and everyone liked it, then why did Disney pass? Why did he show it to Disney if he was or could do it on his own?
b.) Why so long? Fine, lets say no lawyers wanted to do that, that's atleast holds him over till around '90. Then there WWD suit, wich happened in '98, so this thing is over 4 years over due. Why wait? Why not get in their face immedatly?
I won't budge untill answers are given.
My questions arn't on opninon, but on scientific knowldge. Can we date the painting? Why?
There are too many holes and big loose ends. Sure, theres a plan that looks like Epcot and he *supposedly* went to Walt (who then died). The origional plans were very differnt from what you see know, very, it's a matter of luck or someone rememberd this proposal.
But the two big holes are this:
a.) If the proposal was so cool and everyone liked it, then why did Disney pass? Why did he show it to Disney if he was or could do it on his own?
b.) Why so long? Fine, lets say no lawyers wanted to do that, that's atleast holds him over till around '90. Then there WWD suit, wich happened in '98, so this thing is over 4 years over due. Why wait? Why not get in their face immedatly?
I won't budge untill answers are given.
thedisneyfan
Member
Yeah, YOU'VE really done that here!
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
Well since you are apparently determined to not read the articles posted above....
I'm not sure of the date of the particular painting you see in the image file above, but the copyright, which is the important thing anyway, was filed in 1956.
Jaffray met with a group of Disney execs in 1963, well before the concept for what we now call EPCOT was ever created. He never met with Walt Disney himself, but after the meeting Disney did retain copies of his proposal and conceptual artwork, BUT NOT THE RIGHTS TO USE THEM. He went to them because he had thus far been unsuccessful in gaining corporate backing from comapnies like Kodak. His original plan was to have various companies and countries "sponsor" the various exhibits and pavillions in return for permanent advertising space (sound familliar?) but was unable to get any of them to invest. Disney apparently drug these ideas out of their files in the late seventees and merged Jaffray's plan with what was left of Walt Disney's abandoned EPCOT city to form a hybrid bifurcated park, micturating all over copyright law.
Why didn't he immediately persue a lawsuit? Many reasons. First was a lack of money. Second, he was living in Hawaii. Third, he was already in his sixties and had no intention of beginning a long and grueling fight with one the world's largest and most ruthless entertainment megacorporations. Even if he didn't, his family has more than a right to file a suit demanding recognition, especially now that Jaffray is dead.
Oh, blm07, thanks for dredging up that Kimba the White Lion King comparison. For those who liked that one, there's also this one about something else you may have thought Disney did all by their very selves.
Testtrack321
Well-Known Member
Thanks, that's all I was asking for.
As for the Atlantis comparison, it sucked anyway, so it dosn't cout :lol: j/k
As for the Atlantis comparison, it sucked anyway, so it dosn't cout :lol: j/k
blm07
Active Member
Yeah I also saw that link when reading your post, and it was interesting. Although I do like Disney's version, and I don't care for anime. Yeah it was a crazy thread about copies of Disney parks, I wouldn't really be mad, its just weird. Michael Jackson has a copy of POTC in Neverland Ranch (yes I know he is weird, but I love some of his music)