The Frozen 'Initiative' ...

[Gomer]

Proof that even a great movie can't open against a pop culture juggernaut--in this case, Harry Potter 8.

It really is too bad that Pooh performed so poorly. It was the last chance we had at a continued niche for hand drawn animation. But, into today’s culture of blockbusters, pooh is just too small a scale for the public to embrace. There’s a simplicity there that’s missing in most modern movies. I hope in the end, Disney doesn’t turn away from Pooh as a marketable character as it provides a nice counterpoint to the more extravagant and boisterous properties they’ve been concentrating on/pushing since 89.

 

[raymusiccity]

QUOTE="Gomer, post: 6283332, member: 68841"]It really is too bad that Pooh performed so poorly. It was the last chance we had at a continued niche for hand drawn animation. But, into today’s culture of blockbusters, pooh is just too small a scale for the public to embrace. There’s a simplicity there that’s missing in most modern movies. I hope in the end, Disney doesn’t turn away from Pooh as a marketable character as it provides a nice counterpoint to the more extravagant and boisterous properties they’ve been concentrating on/pushing since 89.[/QUOTE]

As in "Hi Yo Silver, Away!", or "Barsoom" ? .......We could have two new E tickets for the $$$ thrown at those two endeavors.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

It's 10 weeks until Halloween. For the past few years I've been conducting an informal census of the neighborhood kids in my Villa Park, California home that is literally crawling with trick or treaters on Halloween night.

Never have I ever seen a single person, young or old, dressed up as an Avatar character on Halloween night. But I can already tell that there will be a gazillion Anna's and Elsa's and Olaf's roaming my neighborhood this year. I should pick up an extra case of Hershey bars at Costco this year, as I think this is going to be a banner year for trick or treaters!

(And yeah, if you come trick or treating to my house you get your pick of full-size Hershey bars or full-size Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. And then I go to See's Candy and get a few hand-packed boxes of chocolate truffles for the best dressed or cutest family group who win the big prize from me. I don't mess around with those mini candy bars on Halloween!)

Avatar will be entirely absent on Halloween this year, just as it's been every Halloween since 2010. But Frozen will be huge this Halloween, along with the usual Pixar, Disney, Star Wars, Marvel, Transformers, zombies, and Harry Potter costumes.

I think if Bob Iger were the type of guy who answered his own door on Halloween night (and he obviously isn't) and he'd seen what costumes the kids were wearing, he NEVER would have entered into that Avatar agreement with James Cameron.

Sounds good to me. What's your address again?

And yeah, I think you're spot on with your last statement. I've never seen an Avatar costumed kid or adult come to my door and the only blue people I see are intoxicated Smurfs rolling out of the bar and shivering down the street.

Such a boneheaded decision, I just can't believe they're actually going through with it. I'm hoping the land, at least, is fun and decently designed, with enough to hold the attention for more than five minutes.

 

[GLaDOS]

It really is too bad that Pooh performed so poorly. It was the last chance we had at a continued niche for hand drawn animation. But, into today’s culture of blockbusters, pooh is just too small a scale for the public to embrace. There’s a simplicity there that’s missing in most modern movies. I hope in the end, Disney doesn’t turn away from Pooh as a marketable character as it provides a nice counterpoint to the more extravagant and boisterous properties they’ve been concentrating on/pushing since 89.

Pooh is still one of the most profitable merchandising franchises out there. Disney isn't about to forget about him.

 

[Gomer]

QUOTE="Gomer, post: 6283332, member: 68841"]It really is too bad that Pooh performed so poorly. It was the last chance we had at a continued niche for hand drawn animation. But, into today’s culture of blockbusters, pooh is just too small a scale for the public to embrace. There’s a simplicity there that’s missing in most modern movies. I hope in the end, Disney doesn’t turn away from Pooh as a marketable character as it provides a nice counterpoint to the more extravagant and boisterous properties they’ve been concentrating on/pushing since 89.

As in "Hi Yo Silver, Away!", or "Barsoom" ? .......We could have two new E tickets for the $$$ thrown at those two endeavors.[/QUOTE]

Not just speaking of blockbuster flops. Everything from Mermaid and Aladdin to Tangled and Frozen. They are all very similar. There’s something to be said for smaller stories, without sweeping battles, melodramatic musical numbers, or evil forces trying to take over kingdoms and worlds. Little movies with no real bad guys and light conflict such as the Pooh Movies, Lady and the Tramp and Dumbo. Or movies like Toy Story 1 or Wall-e from Pixar. Or to go outside the Disney Family, films like My Neighbor Totoro or Ponyo from Studio Ghibli. These movies serve a purpose and can be just as interesting to kids. But sadly them seem to be disappearing in favor of repeating the formula of mimicking blockbusters that has proven successful in animated films. And don’t’ get me wrong, the formula has produced great movies. But I miss the smaller films as well.

 

[Gomer]

Pooh is still one of the most profitable merchandising franchises out there. Disney isn't about to forget about him.

Not saying its time to get rid of it yet. Just worried that in the future, with the direction Disney is moving in, it and others like it may be dropped in favor of "bigger" things.

 

[RayTheFirefly]

Amen. I think Pocahontas is unfairly maligned. The score is breathtaking and so is the animation. Apparently it was "boring" for the kiddies, but it came out when I was 5- loved it then, love it now.

I think Frozen is a great return to form, but it's not a Disney Renaissance film, and I'm talking through '99. Is it better than Tarzan, Mulan, etc.? I don't think so. (Hunchback has identity issues, but one thing I'm certain of is that Frozen's score can't touch Hunchback's.)

IMO, Pocahontas is in basically the top three Disney movies ever (music-wise).

 

[DisneyRoy]

Pics?

 

[RayTheFirefly]

Those costumes are actually very good.

 

[DisneyRoy]

Those costumes are actually very good.

I thought so. And you know, I thought they looked more like the actual girls from the movie than the ones in the parks too.

 

[MichWolv]

This Frozen "initiative" (why with quotes?) sounds about right to me in scope, as long as the temporary quick hit things do not turn into permanent things, like MIckey's Birthdayland. I agree with @sshindel that it isn't clear yet that Frozen will have staying power. So putting in a big-budget ride/show/land seems premature be about 10 years. On the other hand, the popularity currently is clear, even if @sshindel's daughter and her parents are sick of it. So put together some things that are entertaining, capitalize on the current zeitgeist (did I use that word right?), but don't require a big capital investment or, importantly, tie up real estate for a long period of time. A sing-along in an existing theater, a feature in a parade, an elaborate meet n greet, a new segment in Philharmagic (if it happens), a Frozen store with light theming, even a stage show (not a full production like Aladdin, but more like BaTB) in an existing venue. Sounds like the right kind of investment. If, in a couple years, Disney finds that removing those "temporary" things is not a good idea because the popularity of Frozen remains, then it will be time to plan for the bigger investment -- permanent presence.

What I worry about is the location of this temporary, cheap stuff. It doesn't belong in Epcot, I don't think. As I've said before, I only think Frozen could belong in Norway as an example of local myths/legends/folk tales (if it is a good example of that, and I'm not sure it is). That kind of information can do a lot to enhance the understanding of a culture. I'd love it if the WS countries had little exhibits, shows, walk-throughs of popular tales/stories, and most of them could work with Disney tie-ins. Mary Poppins or Winnie the Pooh in the UK. Mulan in China. Three Cabelleros (already there) in Mexico. Hunchback of Notre Dame in France, etc. But these should generally be sideline attractions in the pavilions, not the headliner.

But Frozen into MK (preference) or DHS (especially as a replacement for BaTB or in the Sounds Dangerous theater) and I'll be happy, so long as what's meant to be temporary is temporary (2-3 years).

 

[wdisney9000]

@WDW1974 mentioned how execs had little faith in the movie. Seems like they are now running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cash in as much as possible without spending too much. Do they still lack faith in the sense of building a world class attraction for it, or are they just being cheap? Would they rather opt to spend the money on trying to replicate the success of Frozen with a "copy-cat" style movie instead and call it "Burning"? (a queen with powers of fire). Im thinking along the lines of "Cars" then "Planes". Sounds stupid, but I would not be surprised if they seriously consider it. They (the execs) seem to gain vision/fatih in their product far too late nowadays, and then make horrible decisions for it, then blame their failure on anything but themselves.

 

[morningstar]

Never have I ever seen a single person, young or old, dressed up as an Avatar character on Halloween night.

You don't dress up as an Avatar character, you dress down.

I think Avatar could have made a crapload of money on merchandise - except that the Na'vi don't have possessions.

 

[wdisney9000]

This Frozen "initiative" (why with quotes?) sounds about right to me in scope, as long as the temporary quick hit things do not turn into permanent things, like MIckey's Birthdayland. I agree with @sshindel that it isn't clear yet that Frozen will have staying power. So putting in a big-budget ride/show/land seems premature be about 10 years.

Times are changing, look at Cars Land. It did about 1/6 of what Frozen did at the box office and they built an entire land for it within 5 years and it is insanely popular and quite arguably one of the best "Lands" Disney has built in some time. You make a good point about staying power, but if they build the land properly I dont think staying power matters, neither does the IP. They could build "The Notebook" Land and have a Rachel Mcadams look a like for M&G's and a dark ride based on her characters dimentia and people would flock to it if it was themed properly and was immersive. (so ashamed of my knowledge of The Notebook, for a guy, lol)

 

[morningstar]

@DisneyRoy, they are better Anna and Elsa than the ones at the parks, in my opinion. Especially Elsa's hair. The M&G Elsa hair always looks too "big" to me.

 

[twebber55]

Times are changing, look at Cars Land. It did about 1/6 of what Frozen did at the box office and they built an entire land for it within 5 years and it is insanely popular and quite arguably one of the best "Lands" Disney has built in some time. You make a good point about staying power, but if they build the land properly I dont think staying power matters, neither does the IP. They could build "The Notebook" Land and have a Rachel Mcadams look a like for M&G's and a dark ride based on her characters dimentia and people would flock to it if it was themed properly and was immersive. (so ashamed of my knowledge of The Notebook, for a guy, lol)

agree..obviously IP can help but its much more to do with quality of work done by WDI and does the movie have the ability to translate well to a theme park land...Cars was perfect fit in both cases....Harry Potter is another example of adapting to a theme park quite well..star wars and avatar as well

 

[lazyboy97o]

All of these arguments for "do it right and the property doesn't matter" completely negate the whole point of limiting oneself to a specific property.

 

[twebber55]

All of these arguments for "do it right and the property doesn't matter" completely negate the whole point of limiting oneself to a specific property.

cant think in absolutes..im a do it right guy, IP can help but there are lots of other variables in the success of a land...i think there are plenty of example of doing it right even though other properties are popular for example carsland vs Toy Story Land..to me IPs arent important (ie Mystic Manor) but they can only help

 

[wdisney9000]

All of these arguments for "do it right and the property doesn't matter" completely negate the whole point of limiting oneself to a specific property.

I would much rather see a new Land built based on pure imagination and have no IP tied to it. Will we ever see that again?

 

[morningstar]

Times are changing, look at Cars Land. It did about 1/6 of what Frozen did at the box office and they built an entire land for it within 5 years and it is insanely popular and quite arguably one of the best "Lands" Disney has built in some time.

Yep. Cars is perfectly suited for a ride. Avatar is perfectly suited for a land. It doesn't matter if you think Cars was just okay and Avatar was a crap movie. They are / will be good attractions. Frozen is perfectly suited for ... a M&G. Its success was based on characters. I wouldn't say it can't be translated into a successful ride or land, but that its attraction success will not outdo its box office success.

Not sure about your Notebook Land. If someone could pull it off though it would definitely be novel.