The "Disney Look"

Piebald

Well-Known Member
I spoke to the man in question's brother (I went to HS with both of them) and the way he spoke of the situation can only lead me to assume that this is simply for the money. He spoke about it like it was a joke and "they were gonna get rich off of it". He didn't seem to want to talk about it though and I'm guessing that is protocol for any situation like this when a lawyer tells you to STFU about what is going on in a case like this. So... yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say this guy is full of it.
 

Legacy

Well-Known Member
I spoke to the man in question's brother (I went to HS with both of them) and the way he spoke of the situation can only lead me to assume that this is simply for the money. He spoke about it like it was a joke and "they were gonna get rich off of it". He didn't seem to want to talk about it though and I'm guessing that is protocol for any situation like this when a lawyer tells you to STFU about what is going on in a case like this. So... yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say this guy is full of it.

Well, darn.

Now that that's established, the thread will die.

Oh well.

Feelings were hurt, friends were made, fun was had by most. :lookaroun
 

Lomma

New Member
Firstly, a crucifix (that being a cross or Jesus on a cross) is a symbol of both Catholicism and Protestants. Both are based on the Christian faith. So, to say a cross would be removed because the wearer is Catholic and not Protestant is a little outlandish; an ineffective hyperbole.

Secondly, a person's faith is a choice. How they practice, and to what extent they practice it, is a choice. Arguably (I say this only because people have individual stances on this matter), the sexual orientation of a person is not. Thirdly, a transexual is someone who has had their gender changed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transexual) This means that the "man" you saw no longer had a , so was authorized to wear female clothing. I may be wrong, but I have yet to hear of a corporation (other than some clubs, services, etc.), that issues a uniform or costume that is for the opposite gender.

Biology is different than religion. Don't think you can associate the two.

A crucifix which shows the body of Jesus is a Catholic symbol and a symbol rejected by most if not all Protestants.

There are post-op and pre-op transexuals. The word "transexual" does not mean somone has had an operation.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
I spoke to the man in question's brother (I went to HS with both of them) and the way he spoke of the situation can only lead me to assume that this is simply for the money. He spoke about it like it was a joke and "they were gonna get rich off of it". He didn't seem to want to talk about it though and I'm guessing that is protocol for any situation like this when a lawyer tells you to STFU about what is going on in a case like this. So... yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say this guy is full of it.

And we thought we'd never find out the real story! Thanks for the insight.
 
But what (I don't believe) MichWolv knows, and what you should know, is how willing Disney is to accommodate for people's religious, ethnic, cultural backgrounds. Disney is one of the most accepting places to work- they've got all kinds of groups that they've started to make sure that their CMs have "support" groups- there are groups for different races, religions (I think), and lifestyles (GLBT and the like). They value diversity very highly. In fact, when I first started as a CP, one of my interview questions was something along the lines of "you will be living with people with different religious beliefs, backgrounds, cultures, etc- how will you handle this?" They try very hard to make sure that they create a good environment for those who may be in some sort of a minority.

I've seen quite a few exceptions and accommodations made on Disney's part- whether it be things pertaining to the Disney Look- such as a beard or a tattoo, or accomodations that will allow someone in a wheelchair to work on stage. Many of you who do not work for the company don't see all of this though, and are so eager to claim that the company is unwilling to accomodate- when I know differently. Knowing all of this, the most logical explanation would be that there was an unknown factor that affected his lack of employment the second time around. Disney DOES try hard to accomodate people, and they DID already accomodate him- but instead of looking at it logically, people would rather jump on the PC bandwagon and claim religious discrimination. I'm not an extreme, die-hard Disney fanboy who feels Disney can do no wrong, but I have seen the lengths they've gone to to accomodate people- while many of you haven't.

I imagine we'll never know the ENTIRE story, but with what I do know, the most logical explanation IS NOT that Disney is biased and unwilling to accomodate.


and progroupie- entertainment is a whole different story. I'm sure everyone would agree that when it comes to characters, there HAS to be typecasting (whether face or fur). Yes they change things on a whim- but it is never because of race or religion. There was a big overhall about a year ago where about half (I think) of the friends of face characters were re-evaluated and either disapproved or put onto a sort of probation- and in all honesty, that was completely necessary. Anyone who works in entertainment knows that there are certain requirements and standards, and in order to keep character integrity, those standards need to continually be met. I've gotten disaproved from friends twice- both because of my body build. I'm not going to whine and cry about how they "discriminate against skinny people and girls" just because certain characters require a bigger body build. That's just the way it is.

Sorry, but comparing entertainment requirements and Disney's willingness to accomodate for religion is not at all comparing apples to apples

I'm just using it as an example of Disney changing their stance frequently, not just as it relates to entertainment, just the fact that nothing seems to be set in stone with them. But I don't think it's that odd of a comparison, seeing as how this individual was applying for an entertainment position. I'm not saying that the way they dissaprove characters is unfair, just that it's forever changing as are many things within the company. I was approved and then dissaproved as friends with the same face character 4 times. I've met people with very similar builds where one was dissaproved in a costume but the other one wasn't. But it's the same way in other departments, one week you may be required to wear hosiery with an outfit and then the next week it might be perfectly fine to wear ankle socks or one person who is better liked may be able to get away with it and another isn't. That's what I would consider a problem at Disney, the way they aren't uniform in their decision. For example they're willing to accommodate women who wear only skirts and dresses for religious reasons but they aren't willing to accommodate women who wear headscarves unless it's for a backstage role. That doesn't make any sense to me.
 

T-1MILLION

New Member
I'm just headdesking over the argument that is equating religion to race. The extent to which you believe or practice a religion or faith is one based on personal convictions. If I refuse to work on Sundays because of my faith, but my job requires me to work on Sundays then I have a choice to make. I can either choose to work on Sundays, or I can not take the job. The question comes down to how far I am willing to compromise. It's a choice.

Race, on the other hand, is not a choice. A person cannot decide to be more African-American or less Caucasian. The race you are has no compromise. Discrimination against something that cannot be decided is justifiably wrong. Discrimination against a choice is justified.

This is more or less what I was trying to say. I think this post sums it up wonderfully. Nice job.:sohappy::D
 
Religion may technically be a choice but is it really a choice we should expect people to have to make when it's something that could easily be accommodated?
 

Legacy

Well-Known Member
Religion may technically be a choice but is it really a choice we should expect people to have to make when it's something that could easily be accommodated?

What is easy to accomodate? Is that stated by law or is that up to the discretion of the employer?

I'm in the military. We are not allowed to have beards (unless there is a medical condition). We are not allowed to wear turbans. Males are not allowed to have piercings. We are not allowed to have visible tatoos while wearing long sleeves. How we wear our hair is regulated.

There are lots of similarities between it and Disney

We ARE however, authorized to attend religious services if they are at the same time work. We are authorized to observe religious practices, as long as they do not interfere with what is authorized.

To me, both sides have to make a compromise. If either is not willing to, then something must be sacrificed. You can't have it both ways.
 

ClemsonTigger

Naturally Grumpy
I'm just using it as an example of Disney changing their stance frequently, not just as it relates to entertainment, just the fact that nothing seems to be set in stone with them. But I don't think it's that odd of a comparison, seeing as how this individual was applying for an entertainment position. I'm not saying that the way they dissaprove characters is unfair, just that it's forever changing as are many things within the company. I was approved and then dissaproved as friends with the same face character 4 times. I've met people with very similar builds where one was dissaproved in a costume but the other one wasn't. But it's the same way in other departments, one week you may be required to wear hosiery with an outfit and then the next week it might be perfectly fine to wear ankle socks or one person who is better liked may be able to get away with it and another isn't. That's what I would consider a problem at Disney, the way they aren't uniform in their decision. For example they're willing to accommodate women who wear only skirts and dresses for religious reasons but they aren't willing to accommodate women who wear headscarves unless it's for a backstage role. That doesn't make any sense to me.

That's not quite true. Disney does not change it's requirements...that is the main contention of this thread.

When it comes to entertainment however, personal opinion is ALWAYS involved and ALWAYS changes. Why are there tryouts for plays, musical groups etc? A judgement is made by an individual or small group as to what they want. If that judgement were the same, you would have the same few actors in all the roles, the same musicians chosen, the same vocalists. But no, you have to meet the preferences of the person or group selecting at that moment. And the more judges or judging groups, the greater the variety of preferences. If you are in entertainment, it is surprising that you don't recognize and understand that. Tryouts, judges and opinions have always been a part of that "life".

Same situation with a baseball umpire. Commentators and players talk about a certain umpires "strike zone"...and it does differ between umpires. Do the umpires believe they are altering the rules....no they don't. They all use the same definition of a strike zone. When it comes to human judgement, there is always variability.

BUT....that is far different from saying that person A can have long hair and person B cannot, he can wear earrings but the other one can't. Those type issues, the ones at the root of this case are black and white and are consistent in their application.
 

bfbulldog

Member
Disney has to make a reasonable attempt to place him in a job away from the guests as was the case with the woman and her hijab. The woman refused the job and then sued Disney. She did not win. If there are no openings or if he refuses the job offered to him then...:shrug:

Unfortunately it is this type of statement that is a big part of the problem, this comment simply gives people like this guy validation, which is that it's Disney who should be bending over backwards and do everything in their power to accommodate him, rather than him abiding by the conditions set forth in his contract. Disney employs 55,000 people give or take and this clown thinks he's someone special, he's no different than any of the other 54,999 people that choose to abide by their contracts.

Fact is Disney is under no obligation whatsoever to re-hire this person or place him or any other person in a job, period. If he's decided he doesn't like the rules as set forth in his contract then tough for him.
 

kimmychad

Member
I spoke to the man in question's brother (I went to HS with both of them) and the way he spoke of the situation can only lead me to assume that this is simply for the money. He spoke about it like it was a joke and "they were gonna get rich off of it". He didn't seem to want to talk about it though and I'm guessing that is protocol for any situation like this when a lawyer tells you to STFU about what is going on in a case like this. So... yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say this guy is full of it.


if this is true i hope it can be proved in court and this guy gets charged with insurance fraud. its because "victims" like this that insurance companies keep raising premiums.
 

Kuzco

New Member
http://www.littler.com/presspublications/index.cfm?event=pubItem&pubItemID=17249&childViewID=249&type=all&section=Press%20&%20Publications&subject=ASAPs&title=Accommodating%20a%20Muslim%20Woman's%20Right%20to%20Wear%20a%20Headscarf%20at%20Work:%20Recent%20Court%20Decisions

I thought these case discussions gave a little bit of insight about what happens when a dress code conflicts with an employee's religious beliefs regarding dress. "Religion" is a protected class under Title VII and many state civil rights statutes. These laws apply to both private and public employers, including Disney. If a company's dress code and the company's execution of that dress code don't comply with federal or state law, an employee may have a valid claim against the employer.
 

DisneyJoe

Well-Known Member
http://www.littler.com/presspublications/index.cfm?event=pubItem&pubItemID=17249&childViewID=249&type=all&section=Press%20&%20Publications&subject=ASAPs&title=Accommodating%20a%20Muslim%20Woman's%20Right%20to%20Wear%20a%20Headscarf%20at%20Work:%20Recent%20Court%20Decisions

I thought these case discussions gave a little bit of insight about what happens when a dress code conflicts with an employee's religious beliefs regarding dress. "Religion" is a protected class under Title VII and many state civil rights statutes. These laws apply to both private and public employers, including Disney. If a company's dress code and the company's execution of that dress code don't comply with federal or state law, an employee may have a valid claim against the employer.

Thanks for the citations, very insightful, however, they all refer to people who were currently employees of the company concerned. The man in question in our lawsuit was not an employee. He is contesting the fact that he wasn't hired. I believe the difference is very important.
 

1disneydood

Active Member
If they dig hard enough, I'm sure they will find a valid reason for not hiring him. Not saying it's right, but that's how places work. I've been denied several jobs for different reasons, but I know it was my look that hurt me. Now I'm self employed and can have my hair down to my whatever if I choose. Disney wouldn't hire me for anything other than possibly Captain Jack.

http://members..net/reefdood/xxx.gif
Yeah, I wouldn't disturb the flow of retail. :lol:
 

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