The Art of Marvel and Its Greater Implications

Magic Feather

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Well, I don't know about you guys, but my head hurts. A lot. Between weeding out some emotionally biased sources and trying to put together everything that has been spit out today (my take from what I have been able to accumulate: nobody is completely telling the truth), I'm feeling done with it all. So, to quote Ludacris in Fast and Furious: Supercharged, "Let's Forget About all that mess. The party is here; the party is now. Time to act a fool."

So, as much as I would love a "group therapy" thread, I do have some actual news to get out there, and it all begins in Paris.

As many of you may or may not know, quasi-recently, Disneyland Paris's #2 hotel (Hotel New York) was taken out of commission for a multiyear refurb that will eventually turn it into "Hotel New York- The Art of Marvel." While the hotel's datedness demanded a refurb, the reason why Marvel was chosen for the refurb has to do with one of Chapek's biggest mandates to "leverage IP." So, with that in mind, you may be wondering why this is in the WDW forum, especially when that is old news. For better or worse, this is very much the strategy looking at being adopted going forward for WDW's resorts. While none of the resorts are bad enough to mandate a full closure of the hotel (and WDW isn't looking to shrink hotel capacity any time soon), lots of themes have been, and are being, explored for resorts, the most publicly known of which being the potential Incredibles refurb of the Contemporary.

The reason why The Art of Marvel is the comparison here, and not something like Art of Animation, is simply because this is meant to be more subdued, with the characters merely fitting into a designated motif (art deco for Marvel, mid century modern for the Incredibles, organic living for the upcoming Reflections resort, etc.) as opposed to an "immersive" (I hate that overused word) world that puts you into the movie. Thankfully, these developments have been stopped in some places (you can thank Disney Meetings and Gran Destino for preventing Coco from taking over Coronado Springs). Grand Floridian seems to be moving forward with a "Princess" inspiration following a decidedly "regal" motif, as seen in the upcoming Beauty and the Beast Lounge and infiltration of BBB.

If these efforts are given a complete green light, don't expect too many resorts to go under the knife, but the changes will be very noticeable at any resorts that do change. For instance, Poly and AK Lodge are safe with their pre-existing Lilo & Stitch, Moana, and Lion King "touches." Definitely watch to see how Art of Marvel and Reflections are received, as they may be reflections of the future of WDW Resorts.

PS: I know Gran Destino and Riviera fail to fit with this trend. The former was made for conventions, and the later has an AK Lodge level of IP integration that was deemed acceptable.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program where Martin is Walt's Secretary from a Past Life or Djuan Rivers is plotting to tank FOX's movie slate or lord knows what else.
 

kpilcher

Well-Known Member
Good post. Matches rumblings I've heard and breadcrumbs... the Incredibles test rooms being the most obvious. The newly-refurbed AK Lodge rooms adding a bit more Simba, etc.
 

FigmentForver96

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't know about you guys, but my head hurts. A lot. Between weeding out some emotionally biased sources and trying to put together everything that has been spit out today (my take from what I have been able to accumulate: nobody is completely telling the truth), I'm feeling done with it all. So, to quote Ludacris in Fast and Furious: Supercharged, "Let's Forget About all that mess. The party is here; the party is now. Time to act a fool."

So, as much as I would love a "group therapy" thread, I do have some actual news to get out there, and it all begins in Paris.

As many of you may or may not know, quasi-recently, Disneyland Paris's #2 hotel (Hotel New York) was taken out of commission for a multiyear refurb that will eventually turn it into "Hotel New York- The Art of Marvel." While the hotel's datedness demanded a refurb, the reason why Marvel was chosen for the refurb has to do with one of Chapek's biggest mandates to "leverage IP." So, with that in mind, you may be wondering why this is in the WDW forum, especially when that is old news. For better or worse, this is very much the strategy looking at being adopted going forward for WDW's resorts. While none of the resorts are bad enough to mandate a full closure of the hotel (and WDW isn't looking to shrink hotel capacity any time soon), lots of themes have been, and are being, explored for resorts, the most publicly known of which being the potential Incredibles refurb of the Contemporary.

The reason why The Art of Marvel is the comparison here, and not something like Art of Animation, is simply because this is meant to be more subdued, with the characters merely fitting into a designated motif (art deco for Marvel, mid century modern for the Incredibles, organic living for the upcoming Reflections resort, etc.) as opposed to an "immersive" (I hate that overused word) world that puts you into the movie. Thankfully, these developments have been stopped in some places (you can thank Disney Meetings and Gran Destino for preventing Coco from taking over Coronado Springs). Grand Floridian seems to be moving forward with a "Princess" inspiration following a decidedly "regal" motif, as seen in the upcoming Beauty and the Beast Lounge and infiltration of BBB.

If these efforts are given a complete green light, don't expect too many resorts to go under the knife, but the changes will be very noticeable at any resorts that do change. For instance, Poly and AK Lodge are safe with their pre-existing Lilo & Stitch, Moana, and Lion King "touches." Definitely watch to see how Art of Marvel and Reflections are received, as they may be reflections of the future of WDW Resorts.

PS: I know Gran Destino and Riviera fail to fit with this trend. The former was made for conventions, and the later has an AK Lodge level of IP integration that was deemed acceptable.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program where Martin is Walt's Secretary from a Past Life or Djuan Rivers is plotting to tank FOX's movie slate or lord knows what else.
Thank you for what you are doing by adding some normalcy back into the forum. I can’t imagine everything going on with your sources or even the impact it could have. To many, people would find one crazy to be so connected to a brand let alone a forum. Yet, to us part of this is our family, friends and daily life. You sorta build a trust and when that trust is broken, it hurts. So thank you and I wish you the best over the coming days.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't know about you guys, but my head hurts. A lot. Between weeding out some emotionally biased sources and trying to put together everything that has been spit out today (my take from what I have been able to accumulate: nobody is completely telling the truth), I'm feeling done with it all. So, to quote Ludacris in Fast and Furious: Supercharged, "Let's Forget About all that mess. The party is here; the party is now. Time to act a fool."

So, as much as I would love a "group therapy" thread, I do have some actual news to get out there, and it all begins in Paris.

As many of you may or may not know, quasi-recently, Disneyland Paris's #2 hotel (Hotel New York) was taken out of commission for a multiyear refurb that will eventually turn it into "Hotel New York- The Art of Marvel." While the hotel's datedness demanded a refurb, the reason why Marvel was chosen for the refurb has to do with one of Chapek's biggest mandates to "leverage IP." So, with that in mind, you may be wondering why this is in the WDW forum, especially when that is old news. For better or worse, this is very much the strategy looking at being adopted going forward for WDW's resorts. While none of the resorts are bad enough to mandate a full closure of the hotel (and WDW isn't looking to shrink hotel capacity any time soon), lots of themes have been, and are being, explored for resorts, the most publicly known of which being the potential Incredibles refurb of the Contemporary.

The reason why The Art of Marvel is the comparison here, and not something like Art of Animation, is simply because this is meant to be more subdued, with the characters merely fitting into a designated motif (art deco for Marvel, mid century modern for the Incredibles, organic living for the upcoming Reflections resort, etc.) as opposed to an "immersive" (I hate that overused word) world that puts you into the movie. Thankfully, these developments have been stopped in some places (you can thank Disney Meetings and Gran Destino for preventing Coco from taking over Coronado Springs). Grand Floridian seems to be moving forward with a "Princess" inspiration following a decidedly "regal" motif, as seen in the upcoming Beauty and the Beast Lounge and infiltration of BBB.

If these efforts are given a complete green light, don't expect too many resorts to go under the knife, but the changes will be very noticeable at any resorts that do change. For instance, Poly and AK Lodge are safe with their pre-existing Lilo & Stitch, Moana, and Lion King "touches." Definitely watch to see how Art of Marvel and Reflections are received, as they may be reflections of the future of WDW Resorts.

PS: I know Gran Destino and Riviera fail to fit with this trend. The former was made for conventions, and the later has an AK Lodge level of IP integration that was deemed acceptable.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program where Martin is Walt's Secretary from a Past Life or Djuan Rivers is plotting to tank FOX's movie slate or lord knows what else.
That seems like a recipe for datedness and at a faster pace. For instance, you state a Coco makeover was stopped... great! I really liked that movie but is anyone really gonna remember it (as in crave *more* Coco content) in 5 years?

If they want to leverage their IP, they should be more selective. Yah, Marvel is here for the foreseeable future and some (but not all) the classic animated characters are a win but does anyone need a Brave makeover?

Makes me feel pretty leery. PORS is our ‘home resort’ and despite not minding the Princess Rooms, the classic I still like more. I’d dislike to seeing more specific Princess and the Frog details in the main buildings. I like that it is its own unique thing.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
This has generally been the trend at DLP before Hotel New York, so I guess it's not surprising they would be bringing it over to WDW. For example, Hotel Santa Fe rooms are basically Cars themed, Cheyenne has Woody & Co, Sequoia has Bambi, etc.

I don't love it but don't outright hate it in any of those cases as the rooms generally got a lot better with the refurbs. Marvel, though, is a theme I am completely disinterested in and would probably stop me from staying at the hotel. That, I think, is the risk. Staying at the Grand Floridian suddenly becomes a different proposition if it basically becomes the Disney Princess hotel.
 

rudyjr13

Well-Known Member
Good, I’m paying a crap ton of money to go to WDW and stay at their Deluxe resort, I want more Disney theming. Those Incredible test images looked great. I don’t get the anti-character/IP sentiments on this board. If I didn’t want Disney characters as part of my hotel theme, I wouldn’t go to Disney World.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Good, I’m paying a crap ton of money to go to WDW and stay at their Deluxe resort, I want more Disney theming. Those Incredible test images looked great. I don’t get the anti-character/IP sentiments on this board. If I didn’t want Disney characters as part of my hotel theme, I wouldn’t go to Disney World.
Did you expect Mickey Mouse in Frozen?
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
No I understand different IPs, but Frozen in Norway replacing that bizarre ride was a plus in my opinion.
I thought I was the only other person who felt this way! I overall didn’t mind Maelstrom. The troll was cool, at least, but it was moldy and the ending was just kinda..what. I like the Frozen ride much more and think it’s overall really well done.

I don’t mind subtle IP worked into the resorts but I don’t need overt/glaring work-ins. And they should be selective. I like that each resort has its own vibe that’s not always based specifically on a Disney property.

(I don’t always get the IP hate but at the same time, I get the frustrations when things seem shoe-horned in. Frozen made sense to me in Norway as Arendelle is a weird fantasy of it but it obviously bugged some people ;) )
 
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rudyjr13

Well-Known Member
Then why can't the parks be their own IP?

I would counter that with they were always full of IP and people don’t care for the newer IP being added (Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel). What is wrong with someone loving all 3 of those IPs in addition to the “classic” Disney they grew up with throughout the 80s and 90s? In other words, because I am a fan of all of it, I see the additions over the past few years as positive.
 

rudyjr13

Well-Known Member
I thought I was the only other person who felt this way! I overall didn’t mind Maelstrom. The troll was cool, at least, but it was moldy and the ending was just kinda what. I like the Frozen ride much more and think it’s overall really well done.

I don’t mind subtle IP worked into the resorts but I don’t need overt/glaring work-ins. And they should be selective. I like that each resort has its own vibe that’s not always based specifically on a Disney property.

(I don’t always get the IP hate but at the same time, I get the frustrations when things seem shoe-horned in. Frozen made sense to me in Norway as Arendelle is a weird fantasy of it but it obviously bugged some people ;) )

Good post. I’m also a 39 year old male with 2 daughters ages 8 and 9 who love the Frozen ride. They also love Journey into Imagination. I think people my age forget that the parks are never done and have to adjust with the times and current IPs the kids are into. Frozen, Descendants, yes even Marvel. My girls loved taking pictures with Cap and Black Panther a week and a half ago at California Adventure. I secretly loved it too...
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I would counter that with they were always full of IP and people don’t care for the newer IP being added (Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel). What is wrong with someone loving all 3 of those IPs in addition to the “classic” Disney they grew up with throughout the 80s and 90s? In other words, because I am a fan of all of it, I see the additions over the past few years as positive.
Your counter would be factually incorrect. That is why making the original Vacation Kingdom hotels into character centric hotels a half century after their opening would be a change. Why can you not just be a fan of the parks as parks, as their own form of unique story telling? The problem isn't liking the films of Disney, Pixar, Lucasfilm or Marvel, but thinking the parks must only follow them.
 

rudyjr13

Well-Known Member
Your counter would be factually incorrect. That is why making the original Vacation Kingdom hotels into character centric hotels a half century after their opening would be a change. Why can you not just be a fan of the parks as parks, as their own form of unique story telling? The problem isn't liking the films of Disney, Pixar, Lucasfilm or Marvel, but thinking the parks must only follow them.

My point was these are all IP:
Peter Pan
Cinderella
Winnie the Pooh
Snow White and the 7 Dwarves
Sleeping Beauty
Mr. Toad
Beauty and the Beast
Lion King
Honey I Shrunk the Kids

Did Disney create more unique attractions and characters in the 70s and 80s? Yes. See Figment for one great example. Do I fault them for wanting to integrate more of their IPs that they have invested billions into over the past 10 years into parks and resorts? Not at all. Bring it on, it’s Disney World. Does the Contemporary need to be renamed “The Incredible Hotel” or course not. But adding in some character elements is a nice way to refresh the hotel and make it even more Disney. But hey I’m one person, if you don’t enjoy all that I get it. At Disneyland the characters in It’s a Small World was a nice touch that my kids loved.
 

SpaceMountain77

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't know about you guys, but my head hurts. A lot. Between weeding out some emotionally biased sources and trying to put together everything that has been spit out today (my take from what I have been able to accumulate: nobody is completely telling the truth), I'm feeling done with it all. So, to quote Ludacris in Fast and Furious: Supercharged, "Let's Forget About all that mess. The party is here; the party is now. Time to act a fool."

So, as much as I would love a "group therapy" thread, I do have some actual news to get out there, and it all begins in Paris.

As many of you may or may not know, quasi-recently, Disneyland Paris's #2 hotel (Hotel New York) was taken out of commission for a multiyear refurb that will eventually turn it into "Hotel New York- The Art of Marvel." While the hotel's datedness demanded a refurb, the reason why Marvel was chosen for the refurb has to do with one of Chapek's biggest mandates to "leverage IP." So, with that in mind, you may be wondering why this is in the WDW forum, especially when that is old news. For better or worse, this is very much the strategy looking at being adopted going forward for WDW's resorts. While none of the resorts are bad enough to mandate a full closure of the hotel (and WDW isn't looking to shrink hotel capacity any time soon), lots of themes have been, and are being, explored for resorts, the most publicly known of which being the potential Incredibles refurb of the Contemporary.

The reason why The Art of Marvel is the comparison here, and not something like Art of Animation, is simply because this is meant to be more subdued, with the characters merely fitting into a designated motif (art deco for Marvel, mid century modern for the Incredibles, organic living for the upcoming Reflections resort, etc.) as opposed to an "immersive" (I hate that overused word) world that puts you into the movie. Thankfully, these developments have been stopped in some places (you can thank Disney Meetings and Gran Destino for preventing Coco from taking over Coronado Springs). Grand Floridian seems to be moving forward with a "Princess" inspiration following a decidedly "regal" motif, as seen in the upcoming Beauty and the Beast Lounge and infiltration of BBB.

If these efforts are given a complete green light, don't expect too many resorts to go under the knife, but the changes will be very noticeable at any resorts that do change. For instance, Poly and AK Lodge are safe with their pre-existing Lilo & Stitch, Moana, and Lion King "touches." Definitely watch to see how Art of Marvel and Reflections are received, as they may be reflections of the future of WDW Resorts.

PS: I know Gran Destino and Riviera fail to fit with this trend. The former was made for conventions, and the later has an AK Lodge level of IP integration that was deemed acceptable.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program where Martin is Walt's Secretary from a Past Life or Djuan Rivers is plotting to tank FOX's movie slate or lord knows what else.

@Magic Feather , I feel somewhat slighted that you did not like my post in the Incredibles Steakhouse thread from the other day:

Thursday at 9:58 PM
I am going to be the first to say it. Disney's Contemporary Resort is going to follow Disney's Hotel New York. Instead of the Art of Marvel, Disney's Contemporary resort will soon be filled with the art of the Incredibles alongside the mid-century modern architecture. It will be a thorough retheme, from the resort's lobby to rooms.
 

Magic Feather

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
@Magic Feather , I feel somewhat slighted that you did not like my post in the Incredibles Steakhouse thread from the other day:

Thursday at 9:58 PM
I am going to be the first to say it. Disney's Contemporary Resort is going to follow Disney's Hotel New York. Instead of the Art of Marvel, Disney's Contemporary resort will soon be filled with the art of the Incredibles alongside the mid-century modern architecture. It will be a thorough retheme, from the resort's lobby to rooms.
Didn't even see that. Unfortunately, this trend will not stop at the Contemporary.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I would counter that with they were always full of IP and people don’t care for the newer IP being added (Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel). What is wrong with someone loving all 3 of those IPs in addition to the “classic” Disney they grew up with throughout the 80s and 90s? In other words, because I am a fan of all of it, I see the additions over the past few years as positive.

The parks plural definitely were not. Magic Kingdom had IP of course, although even it has always had numerous non-IP attractions. EPCOT had no IP at all for a long time, and, not coincidentally, it was the best theme park in the world during that time.

There's nothing wrong with IP in some of the parks. But there is something incredibly wrong with shoving it into ever nook and cranny without caring whether it fits the overall theme.
 

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