The “wealthy” is not going to work

[EPCOT-O.G.]

I'm not going to say Disney is catering to the rich, but I feel like Disney's actions have and continue to price the middle class out.

One thing is clear, the parks are crowded, the rooms are full, disney is making money hand over fist. There is nothing in their current business model that will change because what they're doing is being validated by people continuing to go. Only when reservations/visits/reservations start decreasing, only when their income is decreasing will they review what they're doing

My problem with this whole movement is that while they have always had these things to separate the wealthy from their wealth, they were functionally opt-ins. The average experience was not diminished by those who didn’t want to spring for the top end rooms at GF. The cost of admission guaranteed a baseline experience to do most of what you wanted. Now? You have to do some combo of G+ and ILL for each day in a park. Magical Express gone. Ticket prices much more expensive; rooms too. Put simply, the value proposition is substantially decreased given 1) how much more expensive it is just to get in the door, and 2) what your experience will be if you don’t pony up for a deluxe, G+, or ILL.

I think of it this way: one ILL ride on 7DMT (approx 2 mins) for my family of five costs as much as a new Xbox/PS5 game full retail. Or, two movie theater experiences. This is on top of the thousands I’ve already spent (plane tickets, hotel, park tickets) to get in the door. It’s obscene.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Redirect Notice

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I won’t drone on (like usual)…but I can’t stress how recessions have “stabilized” the prices over time.

It’s been 14 years and that is way off the cycle. You can’t ignore that if you want to make judgements on what is going “off track”

 

[Lilofan]

I really enjoy my New Years trips. I don’t like New York so Disney seems like a suitable alternative.

My wife and I don’t drink but still really enjoy our night at Epcot. My wife loves dancing, me not so much, but I can get into it for 1 night a year.

We did the MK New Years on the 30th this year and to my surprise that was enjoyable also.

I don’t remember what the trip cost but whatever it was I felt like it was a pretty good value.

That being said it was busy, but we don’t focus on how many rides we do a day, having experienced everything plenty of times.

NYE in a jammed packed Epcot was awesome but I noticed a number of families / groups as early as 3pm were already claiming their spots, sitting down on their blankets around World Showcase to view the NYE fireworks approx 9 hours later. When we viewed the fireworks we stood near the families that had been there 9 hours before. We showed up at 1115pm. That would be not a good use of time and money in my book. I did notice more than 10 helicopters viewing the NYE midnight fireworks at the edge of World Showcase. I would think wealthy or not those guests paid a hefty sum to view the fireworks from the sky.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

I won’t drone on (like usual)…but I can’t stress how recessions have “stabilized” the prices over time.

It’s been 14 years and that is way off the cycle. You can’t ignore that if you want to make judgements on what is going “off track”

How so? You can PM me if you want. I do think it’ll take an economic correction to force TWDC to course correct, both in terms of consumer spending and stock price (the only thing the board cares about, ultimately)

 

[Trauma]

I won’t drone on (like usual)…but I can’t stress how recessions have “stabilized” the prices over time.

It’s been 14 years and that is way off the cycle. You can’t ignore that if you want to make judgements on what is going “off track”

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what they will do when the recession comes.

What benefits will they bring back or discounts will they offer?

Does free dining return?

Just not sure what they are willing to do when they are trying desperately to maintain “unprecedented demand” for Wall Street.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

IMO, it's not that the "wealthy won't work." It's more so "the wealthy may start to realize that what they paying for is not what they are actually getting".

Even so, the middle class still goes but they are seeing this sooner because their wallets are on tighter purse strings.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what they will do when the recession comes.

What benefits will they bring back or discounts will they offer?

Does free dining return?

Just not sure what they are willing to do when they are trying desperately to maintain “unprecedented demand” for Wall Street.

RECESSION THEME

A slowing economy has finally caught up with the Mouse House. Walt Disney Co. yesterday posted a 13 percent drop in fiscal fourth-quarter profit to $760 million as its once-bulletproof theme parks …

nypost.com

“The company is in the midst of introducing new marketing campaigns and a discount program aimed at encouraging visits despite the hard times.”

Disney’s rough year

Spending on tickets, food and merchandise at Walt Disney World fell in 2009, the first annual drop at the Orlando resort in nearly a decade and yet another example of how it has been squeezed by th…

www.orlandosentinel.com

“Both drops reflected Disney's use of heavy discounts -- including promotions featuring either seven hotel nights for the price of four or free dining -- to keep travelers coming amid the brutal environment. Average ticket prices and average daily hotel-room rates both fell on the discounting.”

 

[Lilofan]

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what they will do when the recession comes.

What benefits will they bring back or discounts will they offer?

Does free dining return?

Just not sure what they are willing to do when they are trying desperately to maintain “unprecedented demand” for Wall Street.

Recall post 9/11 when parks near empty ( ie DHS Hollywood and Vine open even days, Prime Time open odd days , Fantasmic night show open a few nights a week ( weather permitting ).

 

[Lilofan]

RECESSION THEME

A slowing economy has finally caught up with the Mouse House. Walt Disney Co. yesterday posted a 13 percent drop in fiscal fourth-quarter profit to $760 million as its once-bulletproof theme parks …

nypost.com

“The company is in the midst of introducing new marketing campaigns and a discount program aimed at encouraging visits despite the hard times.”

Disney’s rough year

Spending on tickets, food and merchandise at Walt Disney World fell in 2009, the first annual drop at the Orlando resort in nearly a decade and yet another example of how it has been squeezed by th…

www.orlandosentinel.com

“Both drops reflected Disney's use of heavy discounts -- including promotions featuring either seven hotel nights for the price of four or free dining -- to keep travelers coming amid the brutal environment. Average ticket prices and average daily hotel-room rates both fell on the discounting.”

What a time when Disney stock was down to $22 per share in 2008, it reached as high as $197 per share in March 2021. Some who bought big at $22 and sold at $197 are dancing in the streets!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what they will do when the recession comes.

What benefits will they bring back or discounts will they offer?

Does free dining return?

Just not sure what they are willing to do when they are trying desperately to maintain “unprecedented demand” for Wall Street.

…you sure you want to go down that twisted rabbit hole?

 

[DarthVader]

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what they will do when the recession comes.

I believe many of the incentives we've enjoyed these past few years (and now complain about them missing) largely came from the last recession when Disney tried to entice people.

I suspect once attendance drops and their profit margins shrink, regardless of the reason, Disney will look to make visiting the park more enticing.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I believe many of the incentives we've enjoyed these past few years (and now complain about them missing) largely came from the last recession when Disney tried to entice people.

I suspect once attendance drops and their profit margins shrink, regardless of the reason, Disney will look to make visiting the park more enticing.

Agreed. The Disney bean counters ( who control everything ) will signal when something needs to be done.

 

[el_super]

Supply and demand. Real business 101 stuff.

Parks have unprecedented demand and a lack of supply? Raise the costs.

 

[Trauma]

…you sure you want to go down that twisted rabbit hole?

 

[Naplesgolfer]

IMO, it's not that the "wealthy won't work." It's more so "the wealthy may start to realize that what they paying for is not what they are actually getting".

Even so, the middle class still goes but they are seeing this sooner because their wallets are on tighter purse strings.

IMO it is actually the people who regularly vacation in the 1K-2.5K per night class of resort that know right away that they aren't getting the same from Disney. In the 80's and 90's yes. But for now they are still coming for the nostalgia and the park/children experience. For now......

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Supply and demand. Real business 101 stuff.

Parks have unprecedented demand and a lack of supply? Raise the costs.

I would argue that you can't double or triple the park pass to lower crowds and not bring back the late 80's 90's experience. People wouldn't make that purchase without the substance. They have shown no appetite for bring back the "Walt" guest experience.

 

[Trauma]

What a time when Disney stock was down to $22 per share in 2008, it reached as high as $197 per share in March 2021. Some who bought big at $22 and sold at $197 are dancing in the streets!

I can’t look further back right now, but I know for at least the last 5 years DIS had lagged behind the S&P so it has not been a good investment recently.

Now if you bought after the Covid crash and sold into the Disney + euphoria that’s a different story.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How so? You can PM me if you want. I do think it’ll take an economic correction to force TWDC to course correct, both in terms of consumer spending and stock price (the only thing the board cares about, ultimately)

To keep it simple: the cyclic nature of boom and bust from 1955-2010ish provided “price resets” that allowed Disney parks to maintain relative value as compared to discretionary spending habits.

Prices never went “down”…and it was never “cheap”…

But they Maintained more value/affordability. I could pour into numbers of the reign of King Ogre…but it’s just an opinion. Someone will “counter” with a graph that shows ticket prices are “on par” with inflation. But it’s not a “one factor” argument. It’s a collection of things relative to travel and the overall economic climate.

Here’s my take: if you asked people if they are getting good value today - what percentage would say “yes”?
10, 20, 30, 40 years ago?

What are the percentages in comparison? Longterm effects

 

[ppete1975]

People are no longer afraid of debt. They arent afraid to whip out a credit card for spontaneous wants and desires.... let alone a little billy and little princess sally first second third fourth trip to disney. As mickey says... nothings going to stop us now.