The “wealthy” is not going to work

[Sirwalterraleigh]

While it's true that retirement accounts aren't easily used to pay for Disney trip (a loan against your 401K notwithstanding), it should be considered as a part of one's net worth. I guess you could look at it this way... if you have $500K in a retirement account, that's $500K(minus taxes) that you don't have to save up in post-tax earnings to have a decent retirement nest egg. If someone had $2M in 401K funds then they're much closer to 'wealthy' than if they didn't.

"Disney" wealthy, and perhaps the point of your comments, are people with a boatload of liquidity to throw into a lavish WDW vacation, which may (or may not) be connected to how well their retirement accounts are doing and more relates to liquidity.

Correct.

Nothing personal against well managed retirement savings…but it has nothing to do with day to day “wealth” and the tastes that grow out of that.

Most Disney frequenters are pretty proud of themselves…we all know this…
…but that’s not a wealthy playground or a status symbol. A bit deluded there.

 

[SteveAZee]

Correct.

Nothing personal against well managed retirement savings…but it has nothing to do with day to day “wealth” and the tastes that grow out of that.

Most Disney frequenters are pretty proud of themselves…we all know this…
…but that’s not a wealthy playground or a status symbol. A bit deluded there.

It also goes back to the OP's suggestion that wealthy (liberally) is an income of $200K, which is middle class in some areas and probably upper middle class in others. To me it's about what you suggest, access to cash... not retirement funds and not equity in general, though that probably helps people feel more relaxed about spending. It's really about discretionary income... how much is coming in vs. how big the bills are. If you have a mortgage on your $5M house and you make $200K, you're probably negative cash flow... not going to WDW any time soon.

I think my view is that Disney will keep ratcheting up the prices on things until something gives on the bottom line, and it's not targeting the wealthy per se, but those with lots of disposable income and who would not mind at all if the crowds got thinned a bit as one of the outcomes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It also goes back to the OP's suggestion that wealthy (liberally) is an income of $200K, which is middle class in some areas and probably upper middle class in others. To me it's about what you suggest, access to cash... not retirement funds and not equity in general, though that probably helps people feel more relaxed about spending. It's really about discretionary income... how much is coming in vs. how big the bills are. If you have a mortgage on your $5M house and you make $200K, you're probably negative cash flow... not going to WDW any time soon.

I think my view is that Disney will keep ratcheting up the prices on things until something gives on the bottom line, and it's not targeting the wealthy per se, but those with lots of disposable income and who would not mind at all if the crowds got thinned a bit as one of the outcomes.

Correct.

$200K is comfortable with a house that’s too big and a mancave…in most places. Not a Rockefeller

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Correct.

$200K is comfortable with a house that’s too big and a mancave…in most places. Not a Rockefeller

I honestly think $200k is the demo Disney is targeting for their moderate and even value resort vacations.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think my view is that Disney will keep ratcheting up the prices on things until something gives on the bottom line, and it's not targeting the wealthy per se, but those with lots of disposable income and who would not mind at all if the crowds got thinned a bit as one of the outcomes.

This.
As we have seen, Disney turns on a dime (Ha, that works on multiple levels ) and as @SteveAZee said, Disney will keep ratcheting up the prices and if they feel they need to, run specials, "discounts" etc.

I have always said, for every family they have priced out, there are many to take their place including first timers who don't know any better.

 

[Ayla]

But you can do nothing really with it. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.

You can use stock as an asset to lend to yourself from.

401Ks are fine…iras are better…but you can’t spend it until you’ve passed 3rd base.

IRA's have an income cap, which is why we don't have them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I honestly think $200k is the demo Disney is targeting for their moderate and even value resort vacations.

Based on the cost? I agree

The problem is the “above”…
They’re trying to get those people to spend a lot more while pulling their tastes/expectations down

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

IRA's have an income cap, which is why we don't have them.

They have a contribution cap…which is different. There are income limits on Roth IRAs.
Key advantage is its not dictated by employers…who are scumbags in the United States by federal mandate l.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This.
As we have seen, Disney turns on a dime (Ha, that works on multiple levels ) and as @SteveAZee said, Disney will keep ratcheting up the prices and if they feel they need to, run specials, "discounts" etc.

I have always said, for every family they have priced out, there are many to take their place including first timers who don't know any better.

First…quoting yourself is bad enough…you MENTIONED Yourself??

Ok…but that aside…you’re making the “praetorian mistake”…
There is not “two for every one” customer they lose. That’s a complete cover story for the danger of these tactics. Statistically…there are not MORE people coming up with money…there are fewer as the world transitions into a new reality with more wealth concentration that ever. And the “developing” world is advancing…some…but not booking a week at the poly.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It's not Disney's responsibility to make sure you can afford your purchases.

Calm down Roy, who said it was?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Hot take: A large emergency savings are highly overrated if you have a nice severance at work and/or low ongoing fixed costs. Get that money in the market working for you.

Lately it ain't working for you, it is mostly on vacation and spending like drunken sailors.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But you can do nothing really with it. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.

You can use stock as an asset to lend to yourself from.

401Ks are fine…iras are better…but you can’t spend it until you’ve passed 3rd base.

Wealth is much more important in old age then when you are young and earning money regularly.

 

[Lilofan]

Wealth is much more important in old age then when you are young and earning money regularly.

One aspect of having wealth in your golden years what I have been told is you can't take it with you. Some contribute to charity or give wealth to surviving members of family per the family will. One senior citizen who was a successful business exec worth $3B donated $300M to their local hospital. The hospital changed their name to reflect the very generous donor.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wealth is much more important in old age then when you are young and earning money regularly.

Agreed…but who is Disney trying to lure into the swamp with a bag of lollipops?

 

[bryanfze55]

Lately it ain't working for you, it is mostly on vacation and spending like drunken sailors.

Absolutely true… but we all need to do that from time to time . Just remember life can’t be a permanent drunken vacation and you need to come back to reality at some point - to “go back up” if you will.

 

[BrianLo]

It's not an illusion. Wealth and dispensable cash are two completely different things. Founders of companies are often worth billions of dollars (see Elon Musk) but have very little liquidity.

In this scenario, the person quite literally owns outright $2.5 million in assets. How is that an illusion lol

It's not an illusion, but lacks context. The problem is the entire asset is tied into shelter, which is inherently non-discretionary.

If their housing costs are consuming an extremely high proportion of their income, their income stream is somewhat dependent on their continual living in a high cost of living market or their (lack of) retirement savings does not allow them to retire in place... maybe they aren't actually wealthy.

You can have 2 million dollars of equity and still not be able to afford a vacation to Disney. Would we still describe that individual as wealthy?

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It's not an illusion, but lacks context. The problem is the entire asset is tied into shelter, which is inherently non-discretionary.

If their housing costs are consuming an extremely high proportion of their income, their income stream is somewhat dependent on their continual living in a high cost of living market or their (lack of) retirement savings does not allow them to retire in place... maybe they aren't actually wealthy.

You can have 2 million dollars of equity and still not be able to afford a vacation to Disney. Would we still describe that individual as wealthy?

Technically, yes. But that’s part of the reason I said Disney is targeting high income earners and not necessarily the wealthy. Most wealthy people aren’t liquid. Some (typically older people) have almost no income at all (social security). Wealth is a representation of the overall financial picture; not a representation of spending ability.

 

[Lilofan]

Absolutely true… but we all need to do that from time to time . Just remember life can’t be a permanent drunken vacation and you need to come back to reality at some point - to “go back up” if you will.

It wasn't that drunken but to go back to Vegas it is the go back up feeling ( aka trying to regain back casino losses and leave a winner ) Not always the case but the quality of food, drink ( at times free ) , shows, hotels, service etc do help with the getaway experience.

 

[Disstevefan1]

First…quoting yourself is bad enough…you MENTIONED Yourself??

Ok…but that aside…you’re making the “praetorian mistake”…
There is not “two for every one” customer they lose. That’s a complete cover story for the danger of these tactics. Statistically…there are not MORE people coming up with money…there are fewer as the world transitions into a new reality with more wealth concentration that ever. And the “developing” world is advancing…some…but not booking a week at the poly.

First, you need to look closer, I mentioned @SteveAZee NOT myself.
Second, I never said there was two for every one customer they lose.

I said, "for every family they have priced out, there are many to take their place including first timers who don't know any better."

 

[Goofyernmost]

One aspect of having wealth in your golden years what I have been told is you can't take it with you. Some contribute to charity or give wealth to surviving members of family per the family will. One senior citizen who was a successful business exec worth $3B donated $300M to their local hospital. The hospital changed their name to reflect the very generous donor.

There's that I suppose, but there is one complete unknown when you are older and that is the date of ones departure from this mortal coil. Although it is true that no one is promised a tomorrow, the older you get the closer you get to that day. In the meantime you have to live and you don't want to end up broke before that time. Ideally you and your money run out at approximately the same time, but if your money goes first that dumpster dinner is not a very rewarding prospect.