TEA/AECOM 2013 Report

[seascape]

I think I have this right reading the responses

1. Universal is great and everyone wants to go there.
2. Universal will continue to build and build in Orlando even if their capital would provide a better return in Asia.
3. Universal can build expand on land they don't own.
4. Universal only has to follow the parts of the Marvel contract they want to but Marvel has to follow all of it.
5. Walt Disney World is going to wind up with the tens of thousands of empty rooms because all those customers are going to squeeze into the 10,000 rooms which will eventually be built at Universal.
6. Walt Disney World is doing nothing to grow and provide new attractions.
7. TDO was stupid in building MDE and Fast Pass Plus. That those here who don't like it know more than anyone who likes it. There are many financial analysts who claim it is working. The latest addition is remote check in. It's being tested for hotel guests. If half the quests can check in without needing to use the lobby check in this can save $2,205,000 a year. That is based on 17,000 check ins per week, 10 minutes a check in and $15.00 an hour in salary benefits and payroll taxes. Too many people only look at hourly wages and not employee benefits and the government's payroll taxes. It also is grossly underestimated because the number of check ins is significantly more than 34,000 a week and it should be used by more than 1/2 within a year.
8. MDE will never work. Even though TDO is saving credit card fees by combining all those pesky minimum charges for each transaction by combining them with room charges. For food and wine that is thousands of little charges each and every day. Even customers who want to minimize their charges find a couple of them a day. My wife and I and F&W and F&G eat lunch and dinner by snacking around the world and that adds up to over 20 charges a day just for that. Then add all the shopping my wife does and for the 9 days it cuts the number of credit card transaction from over 200 to 8. Those saving can amount to millions in savings a year from those staying on property. If they can find a way to get this done for those staying off site it would be millions more.

Please note that 7 and 8 above do not take into account if any of this gets customers to charge more and stay on property longer. It that part of it works it will add tens of millions more to the bottom line. It will also be able to better allocate resources and save millions in expenses.

 

[asianway]

Nah, say what you will about him (and I did) at least the King of All Thick could stay on point and remain focused....

King of all hack WDI show writers

 

[wm49rs]

I think I have this right reading the responses

1. Universal is great and everyone wants to go there.
2. Universal will continue to build and build in Orlando even if their capital would provide a better return in Asia.
3. Universal can build expand on land they don't own.
4. Universal only has to follow the parts of the Marvel contract they want to but Marvel has to follow all of it.
5. Walt Disney World is going to wind up with the tens of thousands of empty rooms because all those customers are going to squeeze into the 10,000 rooms which will eventually be built at Universal.
6. Walt Disney World is doing nothing to grow and provide new attractions.
7. TDO was stupid in building MDE and Fast Pass Plus. That those here who don't like it know more than anyone who likes it. There are many financial analysts who claim it is working. The latest addition is remote check in. It's being tested for hotel guests. If half the quests can check in without needing to use the lobby check in this can save $2,205,000 a year. That is based on 17,000 check ins per week, 10 minutes a check in and $15.00 an hour in salary benefits and payroll taxes. Too many people only look at hourly wages and not employee benefits and the government's payroll taxes. It also is grossly underestimated because the number of check ins is significantly more than 34,000 a week and it should be used by more than 1/2 within a year.
8. MDE will never work. Even though TDO is saving credit card fees by combining all those pesky minimum charges for each transaction by combining them with room charges. For food and wine that is thousands of little charges each and every day. Even customers who want to minimize their charges find a couple of them a day. My wife and I and F&W and F&G eat lunch and dinner by snacking around the world and that adds up to over 20 charges a day just for that. Then add all the shopping my wife does and for the 9 days it cuts the number of credit card transaction from over 200 to 8. Those saving can amount to millions in savings a year from those staying on property. If they can find a way to get this done for those staying off site it would be millions more.

Please note that 7 and 8 above do not take into account if any of this gets customers to charge more and stay on property longer. It that part of it works it will add tens of millions more to the bottom line. It will also be able to better allocate resources and save millions in expenses.

Now conspiracy theories are including stereotypes; excellent. A distinct change from your usual monorail prattle....

 

[seascape]

Now conspiracy theories are including stereotypes; excellent. A distinct change from your usual monorail prattle....

The facts are the facts. WDW had 1.6 million more attendance in 2013 and Universal had 1 million more. Disney has much more capacity than Universal. Disney has more rooms and is building more rooms than Universal. These are the facts. Now Universal will probably gain more attendance in 2014. But that is not a fact yet. Universal did increase by a higher percent in 2014 than did Disney, which is a fact, but space is a limit on Universals potential grown and that is a fact.

This tread was supposed to be about attendance and it was those with Universal colored glasses that took it off topic. As far as worldwide attendance and profits if Universal goes down the road of investing more in Orlando right now they may fall to number 4 in worldwide theme park attendance because that China company is catching up fast. Universal grew at 5.3% and is now at 36,360,000 but Oct Parks China grew at 12.1% and is now at 26,180,000. If Universal does not invest heavily in Asia, Oct Parks will pass them in a few years. That is a fact. As far as moving up the list Merlin has 58,800,000 and Disney has 132,549,000. I would not be surprised if in 2016 Shanghai Disney and Tokyo Disney are the 2 highest attended parks. With Shanghai alone added over 10 to 15 percent to Disney World Wide attendance. The opening of Shanghai and the growth of Hong Kong and Tokyo should add more to Disney World Wide attendance through 2016 than Universal current total of 36 million. It is only the stupid arrogance of Americans to believe we are where everything is and should be. China and India are where we should be investing. That is also why it's stupid for Universal to keep the Marvel right in just one theme park. But I hope those here can make Universal listen and spend billions in Orlando rather than elsewhere and give that Market to Disney.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Did you miss the part about Universal building a park in Beijing? And they have one in Singapore and Osaka.

And I like the part that USF MAY see an increase in 2014. Haha. You really do believe that USF will remain flat or actually have an attendance decrease with the opening of Diagon Alley. You're delusional.

Universal will continue to expand in Orlando with more hotel rooms, a new water park, more attractions, and they will build a 3rd gate before WDW adds a 5th.

 

[seascape]

Did you miss the part about Universal building a park in Beijing? And they have one in Singapore and Osaka.

And I like the part that USF MAY see an increase in 2014. Haha. You really do believe that USF will remain flat or actually have an attendance decrease with the opening of Diagon Alley. You're delusional.

Universal will continue to expand in Orlando with more hotel rooms, a new water park, more attractions, and they will build a 3rd gate before WDW adds a 5th.

If you are going to quote me at least get it right. I said universal would gain more in attendance in 2014. Taking the full statement which you neglected to do, the statement was comparing projected Universal attendance in 2014 to Disney and my belief that universal would have a higher increase in actual number not just percentage. Please if you want to say I am wrong go ahead but at least know what you are saying.

 

[wm49rs]

If you are going to quote me at least get it right. I said universal would gain more in attendance in 2014. Taking the full statement which you neglected to do, the statement was comparing projected Universal attendance in 2014 to Disney and my belief that universal would have a higher increase in actual number not just percentage. Please if you want to say I am wrong go ahead but at least know what you are saying.

Beliefs aren't facts, regardless of how hard you try. Just like finding monorail footers doesn't mean WDW is expanding their lines....

 

[seascape]

Beliefs aren't facts, regardless of how hard you try. Just like finding monorail footers doesn't mean WDW is expanding their lines....

Oh so you are saying I am wrong and universal will not gain more customers in 2014 than Disney? I can't believe you said that.

 

[wm49rs]

Oh so you are saying I am wrong and universal will not gain more customers in 2014 than Disney? I can't believe you said that.

Because I didn't....

Just like I never said there weren't unused monorail footers around WDW. But you overlooked that as well....

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Both UOR parks will see an increase in attendance this year. All the parks in Orlando will see an attendance increase this year with USF getting the highest percentage increase.

 

[seascape]

Because I didn't....

Just like I never said there weren't unused monorail footers around WDW. But you overlooked that as well....

I did not overlook you monorail statement. I have said they will not expand the monorail. I don't know why you keep talking about it. It may be because you think it upsets people but I think it has to be for another reason because only someone is a fool would keep doing that showing they are a fool.

Anyway please address the issue of world wide attendance and why Universal will fall to number 4 in the next few years. Based on numbers the better look out for a drop in ranking.

Also an interesting note is that Universals United States combined attendance was 21,351,000. That is even below Six Flags 26 million.

 

[wm49rs]

I did not overlook you monorail statement. I have said they will not expand the monorail. I don't know why you keep talking about it. It may be because you think it upsets people but I think it has to be for another reason because only someone is a fool would keep doing that showing they are a fool.

Anyway please address the issue of world wide attendance and why Universal will fall to number 4 in the next few years. Based on numbers the better look out for a drop in ranking.

Also an interesting note is that Universals United States combined attendance was 21,351,000. That is even below Six Flags 26 million.

No, I'll continue to address the fact you seem to think your beliefs equate to facts. Just like your arguments about the monorails, PA.

 

[seascape]

What fact have I said that is wrong?

1. Disney grew more customer in 2013.
2. Disney has built more hotel rooms in the recent past than Universal.
3. Disney will be building more hotel rooms than Universal.
4. Disney has more land than Universal to grow.
5. Universal does not own the land you claim they can expand on . And if you want to address the school I can give you reasons and especially actual election results around the country on why a politician would be crazy to sell a school for a business to expand and also legal fights between home owners against businesses that want to expand right next to them. It would cost at minimum of 500 million for the school property not counting all the legal fights and the cost of building a new gate. Universal management is too smart for that. The land on the other side of is not adjacent to the existing parks and I don't want to go over that debate again. There are too many transporting issue and other reasons.

Also Universal is not even the second larges theme park company in the US. They are even behind Six Flags and that is a fact. They are also behind Cedar Fair.

 

[seascape]

I also forgot Sea World has higher attendance in the US. That make Universal the 5th larges theme park company in the US. And that is a fact.

 

[CDavid]

As for the parks and how they will do no one knows with 100 percent certainty but you can be sure that when Walt Disney Land is finally built out it will be much bigger than it is today, at least twice as large.

If Walt Disney World is going to grow twice as large as today, perhaps they should stop selling off land, because it is really, really hard to grow twice as large when you are getting smaller...

TDO was stupid in building MDE and Fast Pass Plus. That those here who don't like it know more than anyone who likes it. There are many financial analysts who claim it is working.

Who are these financial analysts? Since even Disney has repeatedly dodged questions on the subject, with Bob Iger admitting "we're not even close to being able to quantify it in a public sense", on what exactly are these analysts basing their conclusions?

 

[Lord_Vader]

The numbers are increasing quicker at Universal. Universal is also gaining guests from Sea World.

Percentages are increasing faster at UO, pure numbers TDO. UO added a total of 1,027,000 guests while TDO added 1,616,000. While Universal is adding a significant number of new guests Disney added more than 60% more guests which is very significant.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Percentages are increasing faster at UO, pure numbers TDO. UO added a total of 1,027,000 guests while TDO added 1,616,000. While Universal is adding a significant number of new guests Disney added more than 60% more guests which is very significant.

And that is the bump they get from the $425 million "largest expansion in the MK's history". Universal did pretty good for their <$60 million they spent on Transformers.
I don't really understand the argument Seascape is trying to start. Yes, Disney has more land, hotel rooms, parks, water parks, and shopping/dining. This is news to no one. Universal is capturing more market share and will continue to do so at least until Avatar opens and maybe even then depending on what Uni decides to put up against it.

 

[seascape]

If Walt Disney World is going to grow twice as large as today, perhaps they should stop selling off land, because it is really, really hard to grow twice as large when you are getting smaller...



Who are these financial analysts? Since even Disney has repeatedly dodged questions on the subject, with Bob Iger admitting "we're not even close to being able to quantify it in a public sense", on what exactly are these analysts basing their conclusions?

Has.Disney sold land? Yes and more than I would like. But they still have lots of land to build on and will draw over 100 million a year in the future even if it takes 20 years to get there they will. I think it will be much sooner but are you saying they never will?

As for the financial proof that next gen is working look at my posts concerning the savings from check ins and credit card costs. These are only 2 minor areas of savings. The use of MDE at BOG is also proving to increase business making more money in the same amount of time and if expanded elsewhere will save even more in labor costs while increasing sales. The cost savings is easier to show than increases in spending. The answer to the question of will it work in getting people to spend more time on property will not be able to be answered with documentation until next year. It is the most difficult part to quantify. In any case the cost savings can easily reach 10 to 15 million a year just with productivity improvements in restaurants, check ins and lower credit card fees. There will be other areas of costs savings that will be announced over the next year. In any case a just from what has been announced will produce a 10% return on investment but it will be much higher.

Believe what you want. But this is off topic. Universal is only the 5th largest theme park.company in the US and that is a fact and on topin.

 

[Lord_Vader]

And that is the bump they get from the $425 million "largest expansion in the MK's history". Universal did pretty good for their <$60 million they spent on Transformers.
I don't really understand the argument Seascape is trying to start. Yes, Disney has more land, hotel rooms, parks, water parks, and shopping/dining. This is news to no one. Universal is capturing more market share and will continue to do so at least until Avatar opens and maybe even then depending on what Uni decides to put up against it.

UO is capturing a small amount of TDO/UO market share, 23.27% in 2013 vs. 22.61% in 2012. I would hardly call a 0.67% increase in market share something to tout though.

UO is doing a lot right to gain traction, I don't think too many people would deny that however they are way behind TDO right now with less than 25% of admissions. They are so far behind TDO that it will be very hard for them to catch up anytime soon and with both companies focusing on Asia I am willing to bet they will start to slow their capital spending while TDO keeps going, slow and steady. Disney's slow and steady approach will never appease a lot of people on these boards but it will win over the long run IMO.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

I did not overlook you monorail statement. I have said they will not expand the monorail. I don't know why you keep talking about it. It may be because you think it upsets people but I think it has to be for another reason because only someone is a fool would keep doing that showing they are a fool.

Anyway please address the issue of world wide attendance and why Universal will fall to number 4 in the next few years. Based on numbers the better look out for a drop in ranking.

Also an interesting note is that Universals United States combined attendance was 21,351,000. That is even below Six Flags 26 million.

Six Flags had 26 million worldwide... which included attendance for their water parks, Six Flags Mexico, & Six Flags in Canada.
If you include Universal's water park in the US attendance, they had an attendance of 22,610,000.

I also forgot Sea World has higher attendance in the US. That make Universal the 5th larges theme park company in the US. And that is a fact.

What fact have I said that is wrong?

1. Disney grew more customer in 2013.
2. Disney has built more hotel rooms in the recent past than Universal.
3. Disney will be building more hotel rooms than Universal.
4. Disney has more land than Universal to grow.
5. Universal does not own the land you claim they can expand on . And if you want to address the school I can give you reasons and especially actual election results around the country on why a politician would be crazy to sell a school for a business to expand and also legal fights between home owners against businesses that want to expand right next to them. It would cost at minimum of 500 million for the school property not counting all the legal fights and the cost of building a new gate. Universal management is too smart for that. The land on the other side of is not adjacent to the existing parks and I don't want to go over that debate again. There are too many transporting issue and other reasons.

Also Universal is not even the second larges theme park company in the US. They are even behind Six Flags and that is a fact. They are also behind Cedar Fair.

Dont forget @seascape Sea world has 12 parks, Cedar has over 13 parks in the US compared to Universal's 4 parks. Putting Universal just about 800,000 behind Sea World with 8 less parks and ahead of Cedar by about 2,670,000 with 9 less parks... that is impressive if you ask me.