TEA/AECOM 2013 Report

[seascape]

And that is the bump they get from the $425 million "largest expansion in the MK's history". Universal did pretty good for their <$60 million they spent on Transformers.
I don't really understand the argument Seascape is trying to start. Yes, Disney has more land, hotel rooms, parks, water parks, and shopping/dining. This is news to no one. Universal is capturing more market share and will continue to do so at least until Avatar opens and maybe even then depending on what Uni decides to put up against it.

I am not trying to start a fight. There is a long going debate over growth and market share.

Yes universal is doing great and I am.glad for Universal and their stockholders. However I do not like the constant posts on this board by some who put a Disney down and complain about what Disney has done with their investments. They don't like fast pass plus. Well the majority of customers do and surveys show that. So when there are things being done by a Disney using next gen to save money and provide better customer service I post it. Disney is and has invested a great deal of capital in WDW and and will continue in the years to come. TDO just is finishing a 5.8 billion dollar capital expenditure is Shanghai. That park will be twice the size of Hong Kong Disney. It is money well spent and will provide a high ROR. The money could have been used in Orlando but that would have provided a lower ROR.

 

[seascape]

Six Flags had 26 million worldwide... which included attendance for their water parks, Six Flags Mexico, & Six Flags in Canada.
If you include Universal's water parks in the US attendance, they had an attendance of 22,610,000.


Don't forget that Sea world owns many more properties that Universal.
Sea world has 12 parks in the US compared to Universal's 4 parks.

Sea world's attendance does not include water parks. Water parks are listed seperately and Aquatica was above Wet N Wild which was 4th in Orlando. Also if you want to include water park BB and TL would bring Disney up by over 4 million more. As for six flags water parks don't count either but you may be right on six flags so let's say Universal is the 5th largest theme park company in North America. I do not have the numbers for those small parks which are not in the top 20. I am sorry for the mistake? I could still be right but it does not matter. I am not sure what the breakdown is for Merlin in North America. I know they own a lot of smaller parks but can't figure out what their North America attendance is. I will just believe it's lower that Universals.

 

[asianway]

Now conspiracy theories are including stereotypes; excellent. A distinct change from your usual monorail prattle....

This is Peter? Let us know so we can ignore

 

[Tony Perkis]

Just out yourself, Jimmy Thick. This alias is just as dense and uses the same talking points as your previous self.

 

[Goofyernmost]

This is Peter? Let us know so we can ignore

I could be wrong, but, if this is Peter, he has adapted an entirely different writing style. Must have some sort of split personality. (Oops, I meant personality disorder) It does sound a lot more like Jimmie though!

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Sea world's attendance does not include water parks. Water parks are listed seperately and Aquatica was above Wet N Wild which was 4th in Orlando. Also if you want to include water park BB and TL would bring Disney up by over 4 million more. As for six flags water parks don't count either but you right so let's say Universal is the 5th largest theme park company in North America since I do not have the numbers for those small parks which are not in the top 20. I am sorry for the mistake? I could still be right but it does not matter. I am not sure what the breakdown is for Merlin in North America. I know they own a lot of smaller parks but can't figure out what their North America attendance is. I will just believe it's lower that Universals.

Actually, if you do the math, Sea World's numbers did include the water parks. The combine totals of SeaWorld Orlando, San Antonio, San Diego, BG Tampa, and BG Williamsburg barely total 18,000,000. The water parks boost them to 23,400,000.
Six flags 26 million was indeed including water parks too, the highest attendance for a Six Flags water park was 518,000 and highest attendance in theme parks was SFMM with 2,906,000.
Using TEA numbers Disney's US attendance was 78,951,000 including Typhoon Lagoon & Blizzard Beach.
They are still number one. Followed by(in US attendance only including water parks):
2. Merlin (guessing, because they have wayyyyyy too many attractions to add up)
3. SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment (23,400,000)
4. Universal Studios Rec Group (22,610,000) I wouldn't be surprised if they pass SeaWorld by the end of this year.
5. Six Flags Inc. (i dont have the exact numbers but if La Ronde attendance is more than 1,145,000 then they drop below Universal in US attendance.)
6. Cedar Fair (19,937,000)

 

[CDavid]

As for the financial proof that next gen is working look at my posts concerning the savings from check ins and credit card costs. These are only 2 minor areas of savings. The use of MDE at BOG is also proving to increase business making more money in the same amount of time and if expanded elsewhere will save even more in labor costs while increasing sales. The cost savings is easier to show than increases in spending. The answer to the question of will it work in getting people to spend more time on property will not be able to be answered with documentation until next year. It is the most difficult part to quantify. In any case the cost savings can easily reach 10 to 15 million a year just with productivity improvements in restaurants, check ins and lower credit card fees. There will be other areas of costs savings that will be announced over the next year. In any case a just from what has been announced will produce a 10% return on investment but it will be much higher.

But who are these 'financial analysts' who are claiming success for NGE? Neither your nor my opinion amounts to a hill of beans, really. But as for the 'experts' who are supposed to know what they're talking about, you stated "There are many financial analysts who claim it is working". I'm just interested in who has made such claims and on what do they base their conclusions?

 

[Tony Perkis]

I actually want to address each of these points, even though the vast majority are sarcastic and meant to generalize points that haven't been made.

I think I have this right reading the responses

1. Universal is great and everyone wants to go there.

I do. They're adding the things I want to see above all else: state-of-the-art attractions.

2. Universal will continue to build and build in Orlando even if their capital would provide a better return in Asia.

They will do both because they're notice that continually quality investments in multiple projects can pay out exponentially.

3. Universal can build expand on land they don't own.

This is why they'd buy and/or lease the land around them.

4. Universal only has to follow the parts of the Marvel contract they want to but Marvel has to follow all of it.

Nobody said that. You did.

5. Walt Disney World is going to wind up with the tens of thousands of empty rooms because all those customers are going to squeeze into the 10,000 rooms which will eventually be built at Universal.

Nobody said that. You did.

6. Walt Disney World is doing nothing to grow and provide new attractions.

At DHS and Epcot, they really aren't adding anything. Providing FP+ is not adding attractions.

AT DAK, the next new attraction won't open until 2018 at the earliest.

7. TDO was stupid in building MDE and Fast Pass Plus. That those here who don't like it know more than anyone who likes it. There are many financial analysts who claim it is working. The latest addition is remote check in. It's being tested for hotel guests. If half the quests can check in without needing to use the lobby check in this can save $2,205,000 a year. That is based on 17,000 check ins per week, 10 minutes a check in and $15.00 an hour in salary benefits and payroll taxes. Too many people only look at hourly wages and not employee benefits and the government's payroll taxes. It also is grossly underestimated because the number of check ins is significantly more than 34,000 a week and it should be used by more than 1/2 within a year.

They're banking on MDE and FP+ as the primary methods of cost savings and adding value to the company. They aren't the added bonus that they should be.

8. MDE will never work. Even though TDO is saving credit card fees by combining all those pesky minimum charges for each transaction by combining them with room charges. For food and wine that is thousands of little charges each and every day. Even customers who want to minimize their charges find a couple of them a day. My wife and I and F&W and F&G eat lunch and dinner by snacking around the world and that adds up to over 20 charges a day just for that. Then add all the shopping my wife does and for the 9 days it cuts the number of credit card transaction from over 200 to 8. Those saving can amount to millions in savings a year from those staying on property. If they can find a way to get this done for those staying off site it would be millions more.

See above.

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

I could be wrong, but, if this is Peter, he has adapted an entirely different writing style. Must have some sort of split personality. (Oops, I meant personality disorder) It does sound a lot more like Jimmie though!

I don't think its Jimmy. The content of the posts are simular but Seascape apologies in almost every post, Jimmy never apologized for anything, and has a "bruteish" style this guy can't quite duplicate. I think its a bad clone attempt.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Let me start by saying it is possible that some people love and get more enjoyment from Universal than they do from Walt Disney World. However it is also possible that some people get more enjoyment from Walt Disney World and love it. Is either person wrong? NO. People have their own opinions and views.

My wife and I don't like most roller coasters. We like family ones but not the large ones like they have at Great Adventure in Jackson NJ. However we do love the safari in Jackson and the lion cubs you get see just a couple of feet away from you. We actually like the Six Flags Great Adventure Safari better than AK because it's much bigger and includes many more animals. We still love WDW and the family rides and shows. We love Food and Wine, Flower and Garden and Disney Christmas. We will eventually get over to Universal and we think we will like Spiderman but we will not like to ride the roller coasters. Now unlike another poster here I do think Disney should probably have a large coaster or 2, but think they should build them in a 5th gate which should be aimed more towards teenagers. I do not think they belong in any of the existing gate.

Does is make a difference, I don't think so. Again I just don't get the hate. Enjoy the parks for what they have to offer.

One last thing, this thread was supposed to deal with attendance and the Disney fans are right Disney grew by 600,000 more customers than Universal. That is not putting Universal down but some of the comments in response to the attendance is to say the people who went to Disney had to be wrong and they should have gone to universal, that's just wrong. If you are in NJ go to Great Adventure and try the safari. You will enjoy it. If you are in Orlando go where you want to go. Don't listen to others and just have fun.

Take it from someone who not only has a Great Adventure season pass but worked there from 2008 to 2010. Universal & Great Adventure are not the same. Great Adventure is about 90% coasters while both USF & IOA combined have 3 roller coasters, 4 if you count Revenge of the Mummy.
So go! I'm sure you will be surprised by the rides, attractions, and shows at Universal!

 

[seascape]

Take it from someone who not only has a Great Adventure season pass but worked there from 2008 to 2010. Universal & Great Adventure are not the same. Great Adventure is about 90% coasters while both USF & IOA combined have 3 roller coasters, 4 if you count Revenge of the Mummy.
So go! I'm sure you will be surprised by the rides, attractions, and shows at Universal!

If you read my prior posts you would know I am a season ticket holder at six flags in Jackson. A neighbor of mine did the original electric work in 1973-1974 at great adventure and I have seen the elephants every year. I really enjoy seeing the old ladies. I also have been every weekend this year to visit the Lion cubs. I have been there every year since it opened and I think it has gone down hill. When it opened they had a circus in the areana. The high dive show and other shows. In fact wide world of sports showed a diving competition from there. The log flume was one of the first in the country. Now this may give me away but my bother in law was one of the lawyers on the haunted house court case. I have lived at the Jersey Shore my entire life.

For the record I have also said that the safari off road adventure is better than the Disney safari because of its size and number of of animals. The Disney ride is great but it's just shorter and I don't think Disney treats the animals as well. I know six flags copied the idea and no longer has the monkeys but maybe next year.

I also love the Jersey Shore Board Walks and cry when driving down the stip to Seaside. The Jersey Shore has a long way to go before it's recovered from Sandy. I wish Christie had done a better job on the Sandy recovery.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

If you read my prior posts you would know I am a season ticket holder at six flags in Jackson. A neighbor of mine did the original electric work in 1973-1974 at great adventure and I have seen the elephants every year. I really enjoy seeing the old ladies. I also have been every weekend this year to visit the Lion cubs. I have been there every year since it opened and I think it has gone down hill. When it opened they had a circus in the areana. The high dive show and other shows. In fact wide world of sports showed a diving competition from there. The log flume was one of the first in the country. Now this may give me away but my bother in law was one of the lawyers on the haunted house court case. I have lived at the Jersey Shore my entire life.

For the record I have also said that the safari off road adventure is better than the Disney safari because of its size and number of of animals. The Disney ride is great but it's just shorter and I don't think Disney treats the animals as well. I know six flags copied the idea and no longer has the monkeys but maybe next year.

I also love the Jersey Shore Board Walks and cry when driving down the stip to Seaside. The Jersey Shore has a long way to go before it's recovered from Sandy. I wish Christie had done a better job on the Sandy recovery.

I actually work for the family that used to own the land Six Flags was built own, Switlik.
I haven't had a chance to visit this season yet. I agree it has gone down hill, and I can tell you that when I worked there, management was terrible. I probably by my season pass every year because it is only a few dollars more than a one day ticket, sometimes they have good concerts, and for freight fest.
I haven't tried the new safari either. The last time I visited the safari was back when I was only 10 and you had to ride your car through at your own risk.
Hehe... I witnessed those monkeys ripping off windshield wipers too many times!
I haven't stepped foot on Seaside since Sandy, we did make it too Atlantic City in March and it definitely wan't the same. I've put off going to Seaside for awhile because of Sandy but I know I'll be there a few times this summer.

 

[seascape]

I actually work for the family that used to own the land Six Flags was built own, Switlik.
I haven't had a chance to visit this season yet. I agree it has gone down hill, and I can tell you that when I worked there, management was terrible. I probably by my season pass every year because it is only a few dollars more than a one day ticket, sometimes they have good concerts, and for freight fest.
I haven't tried the new safari either. The last time I visited the safari was back when I was only 10 and you had to ride your car through at your own risk.
Hehe... I witnessed those monkeys ripping off windshield wipers too many times!
I haven't stepped foot on Seaside since Sandy, we did make it too Atlantic City in March and it definitely wan't the same. I've put off going to Seaside for awhile because of Sandy but I know I'll be there a few times this summer.

You should go for the safari. It is the best ride there. The water park is okay and my wife and I do go there a number of times each summer. As for the other ride we take the big wheel, sky ride, merry-go-round, and run away train. I wish they would add dark rides and better theme the park.

I do find it interesting the relationship you have to the park. I hope you have a great career. The best advice I can give you which I give every other younger worker is to save as much as you can.. you start small and increase the percentage every time you get a raise. Before long you will be saving the.maximum allowed and be able to enjoy a long and healthy retirement. Also since you love to go to Orlando, never buy a timeshare retail. Buy resale and don't borrow to buy it. Its better to wait until you can pay cash. I love my DVC and Wyndham points. I got the Wyndham to stay in Atlantic City, Poconos, or Newport in February.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

You should go for the safari. It is the best ride there. The water park is okay and my wife and I do go there a number of times each summer. As for the other ride we take the big wheel, sky ride, merry-go-round, and run away train. I wish they would add dark rides and better theme the park.

I do find it interesting the relationship you have to the park. I hope you have a great career. The best advice I can give you which I give every other younger worker is to save as much as you can.. you start small and increase the percentage every time you get a raise. Before long you will be saving the.maximum allowed and be able to enjoy a long and healthy retirement. Also since you love to go to Orlando, never buy a timeshare retail. Buy resale and don't borrow to buy it. Its better to wait until you can pay cash. I love my DVC and Wyndham points. I got the Wyndham to stay in Atlantic City, Poconos, or Newport in February.

I have been lucky to find a good job that matches what I put into my 401k, and also allows me to put my Christmas bonus and profit sharing plan (10% of my salary) into my 401k. I haven't mastered saving $$$ outside of that into a savings account but I'm trying, kinda hard with student loans.
We actually sat through a DVC presentation back in May and we're so ready to buy in but decided to wait since both my DFi and I will have paid off both our cars in November a year earlier than what we financed! And then possibly use that extra money towards a DVC purchase without adding to the bills we already have.
We probably should wait to pay cash.. but who wants to wait for Disney?!? LOL. We'll figure it out... we may take a break from Disney after 2016 to start a family, so we may not buy into DVC at all. Between now and 2016 we already have planned 3 definite trips, 1 possible Disney cruise, and 1 possible trip with our parents.. so buying into DVC would probably be cheaper than paying OOP for all those trips. But who knows?
I do appreciate the advice @seascape!

 

[seascape]

I have been lucky to find a good job that matches what I put into my 401k, and also allows me to put my Christmas bonus and profit sharing plan (10% of my salary) into my 401k. I haven't mastered saving $$$ outside of that into a savings account but I'm trying, kinda hard with student loans.
We actually sat through a DVC presentation back in May and we're so ready to buy in but decided to wait since both my DFi and I will have paid off both our cars in November a year earlier than what we financed! And then possibly use that extra money towards a DVC purchase without adding to the bills we already have.
We probably should wait to pay cash.. but who wants to wait for Disney?!? LOL. We'll figure it out... we may take a break from Disney after 2016 to start a family, so we may not buy into DVC at all. Between now and 2016 we already have planned 3 definite trips, 1 possible Disney cruise, and 1 possible trip with our parents.. so buying into DVC would probably be cheaper than paying OOP for all those trips. But who knows?
I do appreciate the advice @seascape!

If you do buy DVC check out all the resale sites and pay cash or at least the vast majority. I think SSR is the best buy. I have points there, Boardwalk and a small GF. I got them all resale. I won't trade outside DVC and don't care about the DCL. If I did take a cruise I'd pay cash for it. That's a better deal anyway. I want to stay at AK sometime but would never buy there due to the annual fees. However the one thing with DVC is think of your age and how long you will it use it. Don't buy a resort closing in 2042 because you will still be young. At your age I think BLT would be the best buy. It lasts a lot longer and the dues are low. I love GF but will only stay their a weekend every year in December. That is all the points I have there. My other points are for my anniversary and Flower and Garden. Remember this, Dave Ramsey and Susie Orman are right. Live like no one else so you can live like no one else. Live within your needs but below your means.

You are off to a good start saving 10% with a match. Try to increase that small amounts every year and live on the rest. Your 401k is the best place to save your money. It is paying your self first. Having a family though is more important. That is another a Susie Orman saying. FAMILY FIRST. Good luck.

 

[asianway]

I don't think its Jimmy. The content of the posts are simular but Seascape apologies in almost every post, Jimmy never apologized for anything, and has a "bruteish" style this guy can't quite duplicate. I think its a bad clone attempt.

More reminiscent of patty melt IMO