Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[lazyboy97o]

I get it, the media loves to use the phrase "conspiracy theory" against anyone that doesn't hew obediently to the approved language of the day. It's a very trendy word this winter.

But me providing fully documented statistics and data from highly respected authorities like the CDC or US Census Bureau is not a "conspiracy". It is simply statistics and data from highly respected authorities.

Or when big governments like the County of Los Angeles lose their court case because they could provide no such Science & Data to show that outdoor dining spreads Covid.

If the available data doesn't support your argument, your issue is with the CDC or data source, not me.

When you allege widespread, coordinated criminal activity without a shred of evidence that is the very definition of a conspiracy.

 

[el_super]

What you also left out is the context within which that post was written last March.

The context you provided does nothing to change the quote. You have suggested that the restrictions were unnecessary because the inaction at the number of people who die from the flu, justified inaction against COVID.

Now that the number dead in the US has far surpassed the number killed by the FLU each year, it seems clear that was an incorrect position to take.

Thank you for noting my accuracy on that part. Current deaths "from" or "related to" Covid in the USA are 406,000. Out of a country of 330 Million. Context and nuance is the key there, looking at a giant country with hundreds of millions of people in it.

What do you think total COVID deaths would be if the restrictions were not in place?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

This you?

Yes I do find it helpful in the sense it helps change my “perspective” even just a little in that not everyone on these boards who appear to be so patient are sitting at home fat and happy.

Lastly your problems don’t make me feel any better. They don’t help me in any way at all.

You're doing great. Definitely keep digging.

 

[TP2000]

What do you think total COVID deaths would be if the restrictions were not in place?

Good question. I don't know off the top of my head, but my guesstimate for January, 2020 to January, 2021 is maybe 600,000? 650,000?

I mean, no county in the nation has been as locked down as Los Angeles County, and it still has one of the highest rates of Covid transmission in the nation (among it's poorest and thus densely populated zip codes, of course).

Over 40% of the deaths in this country were already people killed off in Nursing Homes, especially in the Northeast states who sent their sick patients back into Nursing Homes last spring and caused mass die-offs in infected homes.

The science is pretty clear on this; you generally need to be old and sickly to die after catching Covid. There's only so many old and sickly people to go around, and I think a big chunk of Americans have already had Covid (whether they knew it or not). I'm still convinced that weird head cold I had last February was Covid. Maybe it wasn't, but it was so unlike me to be sick like that, that it's convinced me that was Covid.

CDC COVID-19 Survival Rates

• Age 0-19 — 99.997%
• Age 20-49 — 99.98%
• Age 50-69 — 99.5%
• Age 70-105 — 94.6%

 

[Mac Tonight]

**And now... A moment of levity**​

"Somehow, I always thought the Resistance would be bigger..."

OK. Carry on with your arguing ​

 

[el_super]

Ok. So I’ll assume you don’t have young kids and have not been impacted financially in a meaningful way. Obviously, your opinion on this matter is just as valid whether you have kids or not. I just seem to notice a trend (here and elsewhere) where the most patient people seem to be the ones that have it the easiest.

Easier is a matter of perspective I guess. Some of us have been essential and working thru most of this pandemic. Forced to come in close contact with co-workers and question every single action of theirs as either being an innocent mistake, or an indicator of systemic disbelief of safety protocols. Easier maybe than some, but pleasant, it is not.

Gravely irresponsible? I honestly look at it more like taking a slight risk. Don’t get me wrong, I do have some slight concerns but at this point If they would stop shutting the entire state down I wouldn’t feel the need to travel. Never once imagined going on my first WDW in these conditions. I was always putting it off for the “perfect” time but if I don’t drastically break my routine soon I may jump off a bridge.

Even if you don't catch COVID, or even catch a mild or asymptomatic case, you can still be putting a strain on resources that otherwise would not be strained.

First world problems, I know, but I had multiple, non-Disney vacations cancelled last year (ok maybe one was a Disney trip). I've debated finding the sweet spot this year between booking something at a time I would feel safe, versus a time when everyone else in the world feels safe and starts booking everything. So I'd like to think that to some degree I understand.

The thing that has convinced me to stay home (mostly) has been the desire to NOT travel to the airport. Even if I believed that everyone at Walt Disney World was 100% in compliance with the rules (which I don't), there's still a lot of non-Disney interactions between Anaheim and Orlando. I have considered going out to a National Park and staying mostly isolated.

 

[TP2000]

**And now... A moment of levity**​

"Somehow, I always thought the Resistance would be bigger..."

View attachment 525699

OK. Carry on with your arguing ​

Thank you!

I will say, I am chuckling here on my end through almost all of this. But I thank you for your injection of levity!

Some of these posters are clearly not happy, and a few are downright mean. Or at least mean-spirited.

But I enjoy this sort of interesting chatter. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't be here. I'd go find something more fun to do.

 

[mickEblu]

This you?


You're doing great. Definitely keep digging.

I’m not digging. I really don’t care about your opinion of me. “Feeling better” and “helpful in changing my perspective” of pro shut down WDW magic users are two different things. But go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air before trying to process that.

Where I misspoke was in that you actually didn’t change my perspective. Because like I said my comments weren’t aimed at you. They were aimed at some of the other very vocal folks. They couldn’t be aimed at you as I don’t know enough about you as you don’t really post on this subject. At least that I’ve seen.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I’m not digging. I really don’t care about your opinion of me. “Feeling better” and “helpful in changing my perspective” of pro shut down WDW magic users are two different things. But go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air before trying to process that.

Where I misspoke was in that you actually didn’t change my perspective. Because like I said my comments weren’t aimed at you. They were aimed at some of the other very vocal folks. They couldn’t be aimed at you as I don’t know enough about you as you don’t really post on this subject. At least that I’ve seen.

My post didn't indicate that your initial post was directed at me. What my post indicated was that your post indicated that you were the one needing a dose of perspective.

Thanks for continuing to prove that point. But feel free to stop.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’m not digging. I really don’t care about your opinion of me. “Feeling better” and “helpful in changing my perspective” of pro shut down WDW magic users are two different things. But go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air before trying to process that.

Where I misspoke was in that you actually didn’t change my perspective. Because like I said my comments weren’t aimed at you. They were aimed at some of the other very vocal folks. They couldn’t be aimed at you as I don’t know enough about you as you don’t really post on this subject. At least that I’ve seen.

Unless you are stalking people you don’t actually know much about anyone else as well. You’re just making up scenarios in your head so that you can rationalize ignoring the advise of many medical professionals by claiming it’s just the ramblings of uncaring message board posters.

 

[mickEblu]

My post didn't indicate that your initial post was directed at me. What my post indicated was that your post indicated that you were the one needing a dose of perspective.

Thanks for continuing to prove that point.

And I disagree. Best of Luck

 

[mickEblu]

Unless you are stalking people you don’t actually know much about anyone else as well. You’re just making up scenarios in your head so that you can rationalize ignoring the advise of many medical professionals by claiming it’s just the ramblings of uncaring message board posters.

I know enough from posting history to come to my conclusion. Been around for a while.

Well so far I haven’t really ignored any of the professional advice so that point falls kind of flat.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know enough from posting history to come to my conclusion. Been around for a while.

Well so far I haven’t really ignored any of the professional advice so that point falls kind of flat.

You’ve made assumptions. You don’t know know if they are true but they are convenient for what you want to tell yourself.

At the very least you have encouraged and applauded people who do actively seek to discredit medical advise and spread misinformation, lies and conspiracies.

 

[mickEblu]

You’ve made assumptions. You don’t know know if they are true but they are convenient for what you want to tell yourself.

At the very least you have encouraged and applauded people who do actively seek to discredit medical advise and spread misinformation, lies and conspiracies.

I honestly don’t know who or what to believe anymore. I can only go off my common sense because that’s all I trust at this point, right or wrong.

 

[TP2000]

I honestly don’t know who or what to believe anymore. I can only go off my common sense because that’s all I trust at this point, right or wrong.

Go with that. It's the smartest thing to do.

I keep calling it "personal risk analysis", because I don't know what else to call it. But common sense works too.

This is exactly what Governor Newsom and First Partner did in their minds when they chose to drive to a different county to attend a dinner party with 12 other people from six other households held in a small, indoor dining room for 3 hours. They took responsibility for themselves, and knowing full well the Science & Data of Covid, they chose to attend that event.

Go with what your gut tells you. I certainly do, for any number of potentially risky situations. It's gotten me this far!

 

[el_super]

Good question. I don't know off the top of my head, but my guesstimate for January, 2020 to January, 2021 is maybe 600,000? 650,000?

So is that ten times or twenty times as deadly as the flu?

 

[TP2000]

So is that ten times or twenty times as deadly as the flu?

It depends on how many people caught the flu that year, and how many people got a flu shot against it. And if that year's flu shot strains were properly chosen by the CDC to match up to the circulating strains.

Did 60 Million Americans catch the flu and 70,000 died? Or did 250 Million Americans catch the flu and 70,000 died?

It's all quite a complicated medical equation, far above my pay grade. Plus, I hate math.

 

[MisterPenguin]

They were gonna die anyway!

It's just like the flu!

It's misdiagnosis from U.S. doctors getting government money!

574,000 More U.S. Deaths Than Normal Since Covid-19 Struck (Published 2021)

Since the coronavirus pandemic began sweeping across the country last year, deaths have been 21 percent above normal. See the breakdown by state.

www.nytimes.com

The Pandemic’s Hidden Toll: Half a Million Deaths (Published 2020)

Far more people died in 2020 during the pandemic than have been officially reported, a review of mortality data in 35 countries shows.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Disney Irish]

I know enough from posting history to come to my conclusion. Been around for a while.

Well so far I haven’t really ignored any of the professional advice so that point falls kind of flat.

I can only really speak for myself, but I'm not always comfortable speaking about my personal situation. However I'm sure a lot of us have been impacted not only financially but emotionally as well during this time even if we don't state it in the open forum.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Everyone is physically distancing and wearing masks where I live in the congested San Fernando Valley which is in the even more congested Greater Los Angeles area. EVERYONE. EVERYWHERE. If this virus keeps spreading its because it’s just what viruses do in heavily populated areas and these stay at home orders may or may not make things worse as people gather more often privately where there are no regulations.

It was not inevitable. Example:

LA County population 10 Million Covid Deaths: over 35,000
Tokyo population: 37 Million Covid death 4,779

Tokyo is the largest most congested population center in the world and Japan has the oldest population in the world. Covid should have wiped them out. It hasn't. Why? People listen to directions and do what they are told. They took it seriously.

In fact, Asia has performed the best overall and they have the majority of the most congested population centers on the planet.

The inevitable argument doesn't hold water.