Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[mickEblu]

Because it doesn't matter.




Suggesting you need help with mental health or homeschooling support is a different request than saying we need to stop fighting the virus and go back to normal. You will find nothing but support from me for seeking (or demanding) additional resources for those things, because they absolutely should be available.




Traveling right now would be gravely irresponsible.




So you are trying to determine right from wrong?

Ok. So I’ll assume you don’t have young kids and have not been impacted financially in a meaningful way. Obviously, your opinion on this matter is just as valid whether you have kids or not. I just seem to notice a trend (here and elsewhere) where the most patient people seem to be the ones that have it the easiest.

Thanks. I don’t think I need outside help yet...

Gravely irresponsible? I honestly look at it more like taking a slight risk. Don’t get me wrong, I do have some slight concerns but at this point If they would stop shutting the entire state down I wouldn’t feel the need to travel. Never once imagined going on my first WDW in these conditions. I was always putting it off for the “perfect” time but if I don’t drastically break my routine soon I may jump off a bridge.

Nope just stating my opinion.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

My key words were may** and easier**

I also doubt it’s as black and white as you re painting out to be.

Think of it this way - I've been out of work since December 2019 because of an injury that started to get better in March, then immediately my industry shut down and has remained closed, lost my art studio space in NYC and had to quarantine with my family out of town (one of whom is an essential medical worker), have been taking every precaution, have gone nowhere except the rare necessary trip to the grocery store (fully masked, always), have not visited with friends, have no car because I'm normally working in the city, moved 20 years worth of my artwork out of different storage spaces into the house because I couldn't afford to store them, were already on top of each other . . . then had a house fire the day after Thanksgiving where we lost a pet and most of our possessions, are under-insured, will be out of the house for a year (or more because COVID is slowing everything) and are now all living together in a too-small hotel because it's simply impossible to find an apartment in our price range these days, so I'm sleeping on the couch, and am now navigating some adverse health effects because of smoke inhalation. And I'm still wearing a mask any time I *have* to go anywhere, and those are the only times I do.


Now, would you find it helpful if I were to try to tell you how much easier you have it?


Everyone's got something these days. Very, very few have it easy. There's always someone somewhere who has it better and these days sadly many who have it worse. There are people without kids who haven't had a genuine human interaction in almost a year. There are people who haven't been financially impacted who have lost the people they love most in the world. I'm living through the worst period of my life. And guess what? I still see the magnitude of the national and global situation and understand that and why things are closed. So I think your assertion that there are people here need some "perspective" on that to help understand why stay-at-home orders can be problematic is a little erroneous.

 

[el_super]

What I have stated repeatedly is that in the majority of people Covid presents itself as Flu or Cold symptoms.

No, you've moved the goalposts again. You have consistently tried to downplay the severity of the virus, by equating the deaths from COVID as being equal to that of the Flu, in order to negate the need for any kind of social distancing restrictions.

This is basically the same sentiment that you have "stated repeatedly" from March:

It's not ten times deadlier than the flu. The flu virus, that's always morphing and changing, kills 250,000 to 500,000 people around the world every year. Year after year after year. If Coronavirus was ten times deadlier than the flu, that would be up to 5 Million people dead this year.​

​

We can check back on this post six months from now, but I'd bet you two churros there won't be 5 million people dead. Or even 250,000 people dead from coronavirus.​

To be fair you were kind of right, there were only 230,000 people dead (in the US) when this post his 6 months old. Of course that was with all the restrictions in place though.

 

[castleparker]

Ohhh! We'll that's a bit different than this claim Lazyboy made...

"Claiming that doctors are misdiagnosing people without any evidence is something you made up, it is a lie."

The basic facts is that Flu is nearly non-existent this year. It's gone. Many states have recorded a total of Zero cases of Flu this year. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The Flu has been eradicated from our shores. That's bizarre!

The claim that flu deaths are being labeled as covid deaths is a misdiagnosis, and follows the same line of thinking.
Also the effect that virus mitigation has on the flu is not unique to America, as it happened in Australia as well.

To prevent Flu deaths, do we have to keep everything shut down and stay masked up for the rest of our lives?

You know the answer to that is no. But lets get this straight, The flu is not equal to covid. This is a false equivalence. Covid is much more dangerous. Covid pushes hospitals to their breaking point. It has more potential to cause deaths and is much more transmissible. The flu does not have this level of destructive potential. Comparing it to the flu at this point is disingenuous. Your reliance on strawman arguments is also getting old, TP.

 

[castleparker]

"Or even 250,000 people dead from coronavirus."

Ooh that aged poorly. But hey if I believe all 400,000 died from something else with no evidence I can still enjoy myself at applebees without that pesky jiminy cricket on my shoulder bugging me...

 

[mickEblu]

Think of it this way - I've been out of work since December 2019 because of an injury that started to get better in March, then immediately my industry shut down and has remained closed, lost my art studio space in NYC and had to quarantine with my family out of town (one of whom is an essential medical worker), have been taking every precaution, have gone nowhere except the rare necessary trip to the grocery store (fully masked, always), have not visited with friends, have no car because I'm normally working in the city, moved 20 years worth of my artwork out of different storage spaces into the house because I couldn't afford to store them, were already on top of each other . . . then had a house fire the day after Thanksgiving where we lost a pet and most of our possessions, are under-insured, will be out of the house for a year (or more because COVID is slowing everything) and are now all living together in a too-small hotel because it's simply impossible to find an apartment in our price range these days, so I'm sleeping on the couch, and am now navigating some adverse health effects because of smoke inhalation. And I'm still wearing a mask any time I *have* to go anywhere, and those are the only times I do.


Now, would you find it helpful if I were to try to tell you how much easier you have it?


Everyone's got something these days. Very, very few have it easy. There's always someone somewhere who has it better and these days sadly many who have it worse. There are people without kids who haven't had a genuine human interaction in almost a year. There are people who haven't been financially impacted who have lost the people they love most in the world. I'm living through the worst period of my life. And guess what? I still see the magnitude of the national and global situation and understand that and why things are closed. So I think your assertion that there are people here need some "perspective" on that to help understand why stay-at-home orders can be problematic is a little erroneous.

I’m sorry to hear about your troubles. Yes I do find it helpful in the sense it helps change my “perspective” even just a little in that not everyone on these boards who appear to be so patient are sitting at home fat and happy. Well, we re Disney park nerds, I’m sure a fair number of us are fat but I digress. Anyway, I wasn’t really referring to someone like you who stays relatively quiet on the subject. I feel like I only see your posts on actual parks news and imagineering type stuff.

Also giving people perspective around here and taking a pandemic seriously are not mutually exclusive things. I certainly think it’s more “helpful” than repeating the same stuff that’s been said here over and over again for 10 months.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The point, in case you missed it, is that culturally Scandinavians have a very blunt approach to death. A growing number of northern European countries do, and are even moving towards state-sponsored Euthanasia for their old people.

23 Norwegians in Norway's Nursing Homes died after getting Covid shots, and the foreign media jumped on it and tried to make it a story. So a spokesman for Norway's health authority bluntly reminded those reporters that 400 Norwegians die every week in Norway's Nursing Homes, so 23 deaths in a week is a drop in the bucket.

If you aren't Scandinavian, you might not understand that deathly humor.

But I know you value their cultural diversity.

And yet the Scandinavians do not at all agree with your claims or approach regarding SARS-CoV-2. Even the Swedes tired of your preference.

The basic facts is that Flu is nearly non-existent this year. It's gone. Many states have recorded a total of Zero cases of Flu this year. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The Flu has been eradicated from our shores. That's bizarre!

Which you claim is due to it being labeled COVID. That is a misdiagnosis and something you made up. It is an outright lie. The flu test is a thing.

 

[TP2000]

No, you've moved the goalposts again. You have consistently tried to downplay the severity of the virus, by equating the deaths from COVID as being equal to that of the Flu, in order to negate the need for any kind of social distancing restrictions.

This is basically the same sentiment that you have "stated repeatedly" from March:

It's not ten times deadlier than the flu. The flu virus, that's always morphing and changing, kills 250,000 to 500,000 people around the world every year. Year after year after year. If Coronavirus was ten times deadlier than the flu, that would be up to 5 Million people dead this year.​

​

We can check back on this post six months from now, but I'd bet you two churros there won't be 5 million people dead. Or even 250,000 people dead from coronavirus.​

What you also left out is the context within which that post was written last March. In late March, 2020 we had shut down the entire economy, unemployment surged to 20% suddenly, and the "experts" were saying we had to do all that to "Flatten The Curve" because millions of Americans were going to die.

To be fair you were kind of right, there were only 230,000 people dead (in the US) when this post his 6 months old. Of course that was with all the restrictions in place though.

Thank you for noting my accuracy on that part. Current deaths "from" or "related to" Covid in the USA are 406,000. Out of a country of 330 Million. Context and nuance is the key there, looking at a giant country with hundreds of millions of people in it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thank you for noting my accuracy on that part. Current deaths "from" or "related to" Covid in the USA are 406,000. Out of a country of 330 Million. Context and nuance is the key there, looking at a giant country with hundreds of millions of people in it.

And there you keep going with conspiracies.

 

[TP2000]

Ooh that aged poorly. But hey if I believe all 400,000 died from something else with no evidence I can still enjoy myself at applebees without that pesky jiminy cricket on my shoulder bugging me...

Oh... my... Gawd. That's one of the most insulting things anyone has ever said to me. I will have you know that I have NEVER been to Applebee's!

 

[TP2000]

And there you keep going with conspiracies.

What is conspiratorial about 406,000 deaths? That's the current death toll as of today.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What is conspiratorial about 406,000 deaths? That's the current death toll as of today.

The scare quotes that calls into question their cause.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I’m sorry to hear about your troubles. Yes I do find it helpful in the sense it helps change my “perspective” even just a little in that not everyone on these boards who appear to be so patient are sitting at home fat and happy. Well, we re Disney park nerds, I’m sure a fair number of us are fat but I digress. Anyway, I wasn’t really referring to someone like you who stays relatively quiet on the subject. I feel like I only see your posts on actual parks news and imagineering type stuff.

Also giving people perspective around here and taking a pandemic seriously are not mutually exclusive things.

Full offense, what a bad take.


You: "To everyone who gets why things are closed, here's some perspective - my family is fed up with each other"

Me: "I'm suddenly in a category of people who might die if I got COVID, despite previously being young, active, and healthy"

You: "Thanks, that makes me feel better about my problems".


Did you really think most people were sitting home having a grand old time through a Pandemic? Looks like we know who actually needed some perspective. Lousy of you to make me have to provide it.

 

[TP2000]

The scare quotes that calls into question their cause.

Well, especially among the young, it almost always requires at least one "co-morbidity" (AKA a very serious health problem) in order for Covid to cause death. We can chalk all 406,000 deaths up solely to Covid if it makes you feel better, although the Science & Data has clearly shown that especially if you are under 65 Covid almost always requires a serious pre-existing co-morbidity to kill you.

US Covid Deaths For Patients With Co-Morbidities
Age 18-44 = 99.2% Had Co-Morbidity
Age 45-64 = 96.3% Had Co-Morbidity
Age 65-74 = 93.5% Had Co-Morbidity
Age 75-Up = 85.7% Had Co-Morbidity

Now certainly, that doesn't negate the issue that those people died because they had Covid. But even in the elderly, the majority of deaths aren't in otherwise healthy people. You need to have previous medical problems going on when you get Covid to be in the majority of deaths.

Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer

Age, sex, demographic characteristics such as pre-existing conditions, of coronavirus cases of patients infected with COVID-19 and deaths, as observed in studies on the virus outbreak originating from Wuhan, China

www.worldometers.info

 

[mickEblu]

Full offense, what a bad take.


You: "To everyone who gets why things are closed, here's some perspective - my family is fed up with each other"

Me: "I'm suddenly in a category of people who might die if I got COVID, despite previously being young, active, and healthy"

You: "Thanks, that makes me feel better about my problems".


Did you really think most people were sitting home having a grand old time through a Pandemic? Looks like we know who actually needed some perspective. Lousy of you to make me have to provide it.

Lol. Is that What I wrote? Wow dude, maybe you should go outside and get some fresh air.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, especially among the young, it almost always requires at least one "co-morbidity" (AKA a very serious health problem) in order for Covid to cause death. We can chalk all 406,000 deaths up solely to Covid if it makes you feel better, although the Science & Data has clearly shown that especially if you are under 65 Covid almost always requires a serious pre-existing co-morbidity to kill you.

Covid Deaths For Patients With Co-Morbidities
Age 18-44 = 99.2% Had Co-Morbidity
Age 45-64 = 96.3% Had Co-Morbidity
Age 65-74 = 93.5% Had Co-Morbidity
Age 75-Up = 85.7% Had Co-Morbidity

Now certainly, that doesn't negate the issue that those people died because they had Covid. But even in the elderly, the majority of deaths aren't in otherwise healthy people. You need to have previous medical problems going on when you get Covid to be in the majority of deaths.

Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer

Age, sex, demographic characteristics such as pre-existing conditions, of coronavirus cases of patients infected with COVID-19 and deaths, as observed in studies on the virus outbreak originating from Wuhan, China

www.worldometers.info

Most deaths in all people have a co-morbidity but we get it, a conspiracy is more fun.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Lol. Is that I wrote? Wow dude, maybe you should go outside and get some fresh air.

It’s not? You keep complaining about having to deal with your kids and asking people if they have kids to prove they don’t understand how hard you have it.

 

[TP2000]

Most deaths in all people have a co-morbidity but we get it, a conspiracy is more fun.

I get it, the media loves to use the phrase "conspiracy theory" against anyone that doesn't hew obediently to the approved language of the day. It's a very trendy word this winter.

But me providing fully documented statistics and data from highly respected authorities like the CDC or US Census Bureau is not a "conspiracy". It is simply statistics and data from highly respected authorities.

Or when big governments like the County of Los Angeles lose their court case because they could provide no such Science & Data to show that outdoor dining spreads Covid.

If the available data doesn't support your argument, your issue is with the CDC or data source, not me.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Lol. Is that What I wrote? Wow dude, maybe you should go outside and get some fresh air.

Let's use the direct quotes then:

Anyway, I hope everyone who is so understanding of everything being closed is doing well. You know, the folks who haven’t been affected financially and have grown children or no children. In the meantime, my family and I are about to kill each other

Think of it this way - I've been out of work since December 2019 because of an injury that started to get better in March, then immediately my industry shut down and has remained closed, lost my art studio space in NYC and had to quarantine with my family out of town (one of whom is an essential medical worker), have been taking every precaution, have gone nowhere except the rare necessary trip to the grocery store (fully masked, always), have not visited with friends, have no car because I'm normally working in the city, moved 20 years worth of my artwork out of different storage spaces into the house because I couldn't afford to store them, were already on top of each other . . . then had a house fire the day after Thanksgiving where we lost a pet and most of our possessions, are under-insured, will be out of the house for a year (or more because COVID is slowing everything) and are now all living together in a too-small hotel because it's simply impossible to find an apartment in our price range these days, so I'm sleeping on the couch, and am now navigating some adverse health effects because of smoke inhalation. And I'm still wearing a mask any time I *have* to go anywhere, and those are the only times I do.


Now, would you find it helpful if I were to try to tell you how much easier you have it?

Yes I do find it helpful in the sense it helps change my “perspective” even just a little in that not everyone on these boards who appear to be so patient are sitting at home fat and happy

Like I said. Lousy take. And that's me being kind for the Message Boards.

 

[mickEblu]

Let's use the direct quotes then:





Like I said. Lousy take. And that's me being kind for the Message Boards.

And yours is a very lousy take on my “lousy take”

Of course I don’t think everyone is at home enjoying themselves. My message was directed at a few frequent posters on the subject Who I feel may lack perspective in some aspects as they haven’t been hit has hard or effected as badly.

Again, I question if the stay at home orders work at all and if they are worth the toll it’s taking on the economy and peoples mental health.

Lastly your problems don’t make me feel any better. They don’t help me in any way at all.