Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[ToTBellHop]

If people were making an honest choice they would not need to rationalize it with misunderstanding, lies and conspiracies.

It sounds better than, “I am choosing to be selfish.”

 

[TP2000]

What is far more believable to me, is that you got caught in an indefensible position, making baseless claim after baseless claim, and are still dodging responsibility for it.

The position at hand is that there is no scientific proof that outdoor dining is a key spreader of Covid.

Both the counties of Los Angeles and San Diego lost that legal argument badly in court last month, because those big county legal teams could provide absolutely no Science & Data to show that outdoor dining spreads Covid.

If you call that an indefensible position, it's a good thing you aren't a lawyer, because you'd lose that case faster than Los Angeles County did.

This week this exact issue has moved up to the Napa Valley. A group of wineries has just sued Governor Newsom over his outdoor dining ban. They are demanding to see the scientific proof Governor Newsom's administration used in that decision to close their dining businesses. This will be yet another fun court case to watch!

More than 50 Bay Area restaurants, wineries sue Gov. Newsom over ban on in-person dining

A group of more than 50 wineries and restaurants across Napa and Sonoma counties are suing to overturn a state ban on in-person dining, saying their constitutional rights are being trampled as they…

ktla.com

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

My post wasn’t trying to point out wrong or right. Not really interested in that discussion anymore. It was meant to give some perspective to people that may have had it much easier the last 10 months.

Do you have young kids or have you been impacted financially?

I can't imagine many people - outside of very rich people - have had it easy these last 10 months.

I suspect most people on these boards have been seriously and negatively impacted to at least some meaningful degree.

 

[mickEblu]

I can't imagine many people - outside of very rich people - have had it easy these last 10 months.

I suspect most people on these boards have been seriously and negatively impacted to at least some meaningful degree.

My key words were may** and easier**

I also doubt it’s as black and white as you re painting out to be.

 

[TP2000]

Look at that, more lies about something you can't distinguish from the cold.

I don't know that I've done any "lying" here, just typing out loud my thoughts and some of the Science & Data that is available.

My point is that it will be interesting to see how publicly stated positions change once Covid is tamed.

Organizations like the teacher's union drew a line in the sand that schools must remain closed, even though the death rate among children from Covid is nearly non-existent. There were about 75 Covid deaths of school-aged children in 2020, out of 60 Million Americans aged 5 to 18.

In 2019 the CDC knows of 188 American schoolchildren who died of the Flu, although their "statistical modeling" and the fact many patients aren't specifically tested for Flu virus, says that about 600 American schoolchildren died of the Flu that year.

How do the teacher's union who argued vehemently that schools must remain closed indefinitely ignore a school-age death rate from Flu that is double or triple that of Covid? Yes, yes, the teacher's unions claimed they were protecting the 70 year old school librarian or the 50 year old morbidly obese math teacher. But instead of just removing those higher-risk staff members and keeping them at home, they shut the whole school system down and banished American children to a year-long collapse of education.

So I just wonder how organizations like that, just using the teacher's union here but there are others, walk all those positions back in 2021 and 2022???

Or, we could just do like we did through 2019 and simply ignore the hundreds of American school children who die of the Flu every year.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I can't imagine many people - outside of very rich people - have had it easy these last 10 months.

I suspect most people on these boards have been seriously and negatively impacted to at least some meaningful degree.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you have lost your job then you're just lazy living off others. If you have not lost your job then you have no empathy for others.

 

[el_super]

My post wasn’t trying to point out wrong or right.

Trying to point out that stay at home orders might make things worst, is doing exactly that.

Not really interested in that discussion anymore. It was meant to give some perspective to people that may have had it much easier the last 10 months.

Yes, some of us may have had it easier the last few months than others. But that doesn't change what needs to be done or how it needs to be done. It's hard, and I think we all get that. I can, to some degree sympathize for those who have had it harder over the course of the pandemic, but that doesn't change my opinion on whether they should be allowed to socially gather, dine out with their friends, go maskless into a store, or go to Disneyland. Just because it's hard, doesn't mean you can quit.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't know that I've done any "lying" here, just typing out loud my thoughts and some of the Science & Data that is available.

My point is that it will be interesting to see how publicly stated positions change once Covid is tamed.

Organizations like the teacher's union drew a line in the sand that schools must remain closed, even though the death rate among children from Covid is nearly non-existent. There were about 75 Covid deaths of school-aged children in 2020, out of 60 Million Americans aged 5 to 18.

In 2019 the CDC knows of 188 American schoolchildren who died of the Flu, although their "statistical modeling" and the fact many patients aren't specifically tested for Flu virus, says that about 600 American schoolchildren died of the Flu that year.

How do the teacher's union who argued vehemently that schools must remain closed indefinitely ignore a school-age death rate from Flu that is double or triple that of Covid? Yes, yes, the teacher's unions claimed they were protecting the 70 year old school librarian or the 50 year old morbidly obese math teacher. But instead of just removing those higher-risk staff members and keeping them at home, they shut the whole school system down and banished American children to a year-long collapse of education.

So I just wonder how organizations like that, just using the teacher's union here but there are others, walk all those positions back in 2021 and 2022???

Or, we could just do like we did through 2019 and simply ignore the hundreds of American school children who die of the Flu every year.

Claiming that doctors are misdiagnosing people without any evidence is something you made up, it is a lie. Exaggerating the annual deaths from influenza is also lying.

 

[el_super]

The position at hand is that there is no scientific proof that outdoor dining is a key spreader of Covid.

You moved the goalposts. The indefensible position I was referring to was your ridiculous claims that it's just the flu.

 

[TP2000]

Claiming that doctors are misdiagnosing people without any evidence is something you made up, it is a lie.

I honestly don't remember making that claim. Did I claim they were misdiagnosing in favor of Covid, or against it?

I'm not saying I didn't say something regarding that, but it might have been one of those late night posts I made after a good glass of Scotch and it simply is lost to my mind's ether.

Exaggerating the annual deaths from influenza is also lying.

I got the statistic of 188 child deaths from Flu last year from the CDC, plus their estimation that their modeling shows the actual Flu death toll among youngsters at approximately 600 deaths last year. I got the approximately 60 Million Americans aged 5 to 18 from the US Census Bureau.

If these basic statistics from the CDC and Census are angering to you, you shouldn't blame me, you should write your congressman.

2019-20 Season’s Pediatric Flu Deaths Tie High Mark Set During 2017-18 Season | CDC

Everything you need to know about the flu illness, including symptoms, treatment and prevention.

www.cdc.gov

 

[mickEblu]

Trying to point out that stay at home orders might make things worst, is doing exactly that.




Yes, some of us may have had it easier the last few months than others. But that doesn't change what needs to be done or how it needs to be done. It's hard, and I think we all get that. I can, to some degree sympathize for those who have had it harder over the course of the pandemic, but that doesn't change my opinion on whether they should be allowed to socially gather, dine out with their friends, go maskless into a store, or go to Disneyland. Just because it's hard, doesn't mean you can quit.

I’m not trying to to change your opinion.

Why didn’t you answer my question?

No I definitely can’t quit homeschooling my son or taking care of my kids in general no matter how crappy my mental health may be.

Oh well. If everything goes as planned, I’ll be on a plane to WDW in less than 5 weeks.

And yes I’m not convinced stay at home orders don’t make things worse or at the very least not help a whole lot.

 

[TP2000]

You moved the goalposts. The indefensible position I was referring to was your ridiculous claims that it's just the flu.

It's not the flu, it's two different things.

What I have stated repeatedly is that in the majority of people Covid presents itself as Flu or Cold symptoms. If the person who gets Covid even gets symptoms, as many Covid carriers are symptomless.

That's not my specific position, it's the position I took after reading the basic Science & Data on how Covid impacts the vast majority of people. Which is why I took on the personal risk analysis to carry on with my life and accept dinner party invitations; personally I have no more need to worry about Covid than I worry about the Flu.

If you disagree with medical information being given out by doctor's such as that below, you should contact the media sites and news stations that have spread this information. From the article posted below from Medical News Today...

Both influenza and COVID-19 are contagious respiratory illnesses caused by viruses. Symptoms may be similar, and doctors may look to testing to help reveal or confirm their diagnosis.

Both the flu and COVID-19 can cause complications, including life threatening issues, such as acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and respiratory failure.

Some groups are at higher risk of complications from both conditions, including:

• older adults
• people with some underlying medical conditions

Key differences between COVID-19 vs. the flu vs. RSV

COVID-19 shares some similarities with other respiratory conditions, such as RSV and influenza. However, there are also crucial differences.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[castleparker]

I honestly don't remember making that claim. Did I claim they were misdiagnosing in favor of Covid, or against it?

I'm not saying I didn't say something regarding that, but it might have been one of those late night posts I made after a good glass of Scotch and it simply is lost to my mind's ether.



I got the statistic of 188 deaths from Flu last year from the CDC, plus their estimation that their modeling shows the actual Flu death toll among youngsters at approximately 600 last year. I got the approximately 60 Million Americans aged 5 to 18 from the US Census Bureau.

If these basic statistics from the CDC and Census are angering to you, you shouldn't blame me, you should write your congressman.

You literally made that claim today.

Currently in the middle of winter, the flu season is non-existent this year. Either because everyone is fully masked and slathered in complimentary disinfectant every time they go into Target, or because most flu deaths are being chalked up as a Covid death. Or more likely, a combination of those two things.

 

[TP2000]

This "old people are going to die anyways" shtick is getting old my friend.

The point, in case you missed it, is that culturally Scandinavians have a very blunt approach to death. A growing number of northern European countries do, and are even moving towards state-sponsored Euthanasia for their old people.

23 Norwegians in Norway's Nursing Homes died after getting Covid shots, and the foreign media jumped on it and tried to make it a story. So a spokesman for Norway's health authority bluntly reminded those reporters that 400 Norwegians die every week in Norway's Nursing Homes, so 23 deaths in a week is a drop in the bucket.

If you aren't Scandinavian, you might not understand that deathly humor.

But I know you value their cultural diversity.

 

[mickEblu]

The point, in case you missed it, is that culturally Scandinavians have a very blunt approach to death. A growing number of northern European countries do, and are even moving towards state-sponsored Euthanasia for their old people.

23 Norwegians in Norway's Nursing Homes died after getting Covid shots, and the foreign media jumped on it and tried to make it a story. So a spokesman for Norway's health authority bluntly reminded those reporters that 400 Norwegians die every week in Norway's Nursing Homes, so 23 deaths in a week is a drop in the bucket.

If you aren't Scandinavian, you might not understand that deathly humor.

But I know you value their cultural diversity.

I wish I came from cultures that dealt with death better. Italians don’t too well with it and don’t get me started on Arabs. The women scream and jump in the caskets at the funeral.

 

[TP2000]

You literally made that claim today.

Ohhh! We'll that's a bit different than this claim Lazyboy made...

"Claiming that doctors are misdiagnosing people without any evidence is something you made up, it is a lie."

The basic facts is that Flu is nearly non-existent this year. It's gone. Many states have recorded a total of Zero cases of Flu this year. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The Flu has been eradicated from our shores. That's bizarre!

And goes to my earlier point about organizations like the teacher's union ignoring previous virus deaths in prior years. How do they walk back in 2021 and 2022 from their extreme position in 2020 of an expectation of zero deaths?

To prevent Flu deaths, do we have to keep everything shut down and stay masked up for the rest of our lives?

Montana records 0 flu cases so far this season, thanks to COVID-prevention measures

The state of Montana has seen zero lab-confirmed cases of influenza this season, which could be largely contributed to COVID-19 mitigation procedures like masking and physical distancing, said Nancy Iversen, Billings Clinic director of patient safety and infection control.

missoulacurrent.com

Flu cases in Maine have plummeted this season

There have been no hospitalizations or deaths because of influenza, pneumonia or related illnesses so far this flu season.

bangordailynews.com

 

[Disney Irish]

The point, in case you missed it, is that culturally Scandinavians have a very blunt approach to death. A growing number of northern European countries do, and are even moving towards state-sponsored Euthanasia for their old people.

23 Norwegians in Norway's Nursing Homes died after getting Covid shots, and the foreign media jumped on it and tried to make it a story. So a spokesman for Norway's health authority bluntly reminded those reporters that 400 Norwegians die every week in Norway's Nursing Homes, so 23 deaths in a week is a drop in the bucket.

If you aren't Scandinavian, you might not understand that deathly humor.

But I know you value their cultural diversity.

No I got the point you were trying to make. And I do get gallows or dark humor. However in this case its more of your constant "Hey old people die anyways" shtick you've been peddling for the last 10 months. Its getting old, so it needs to die just like those 23 old Norwegians.

 

[TP2000]

I wish I came from cultures that dealt with death better. Italians don’t too well with it and don’t get me started on Arabs. The women scream and jump in the caskets at the funeral.

Yes. Note I used the phrase "northern European". I come from a long line of Swedes, and when it comes to how we deal with aging and death I'm very glad of that cultural background.

The southern European cultures deal with death very, very differently than a Norwegian or a Dutchman. In southern Europe there is much public crying and wailing and very obvious displays of mourning and sadness, and in today's Social Media age there is public Virtue Signaling about how much you care about it all. Don't forget to Like & Subscribe!

 

[TP2000]

Its getting old, so it needs to die just like those 23 old Norwegians.

Look at that, you're getting the hang of Scandinavian death humor!

 

[el_super]

I’m not trying to to change your opinion.

Why didn’t you answer my question?

Because it doesn't matter.

No I definitely can’t quit homeschooling my son or taking care of my kids in general no matter how crappy my mental health may be.

Suggesting you need help with mental health or homeschooling support is a different request than saying we need to stop fighting the virus and go back to normal. You will find nothing but support from me for seeking (or demanding) additional resources for those things, because they absolutely should be available.

Oh well. If everything goes as planned, I’ll be on a plane to WDW in less than 5 weeks.

Traveling right now would be gravely irresponsible.

And yes I’m not convinced stay at home orders don’t make things worse or at the very least not help a whole lot.

So you are trying to determine right from wrong?