lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
And you would complain about changing goalposts.
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Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???
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planodisney
Well-Known Member
Can someone give me an explanation of why our numbers in Texas, in terms of new cases and deaths, have been dramatically lower than California for weeks now? We have very few restrictions in place save wearing masks indoors, all businesses are open, indoor dining everywhere, theme parks were all open for the holidays, all kids sports leagues are running as normal, including indoor sports, and pro and college football teams have been allowing large, yet curtailed numbers of fans. Obviously I’ve been a “can’t shut everything down” advocate, but even I’m surprised by these numbers.
el_super
Well-Known Member
No, it wouldn't be. If the vaccine starts rolling out, and hospitals are still warzones, then the restrictions will have to stay in place. It would make the most sense to keep the same response in place: restrictions in effect until ICU capacity/hospitalizations reach safe levels. That is just as much about saving people who have/potential to have COVID as it is, saving hospital capacity for other life threatening conditions.
On a normal summer day, Disneyland can send upwards of 20 to 30 people to the ER. There's no reason to subject the hospitals to that, while they are still in the midst of a crisis.
We have more people, and have severely relaxed restrictions and reopened schools. Obviously too early.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
California clearly has large areas of no actual enforcement with many people, including business owners, ignoring guidelines. Despite no significant restrictions I can only do some indoor dining at national chains while it seems I’d have no trouble finding a small place full of people in California. Texas also has a higher positivity rate meaning they are likely missing many more cases than California.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Or the restrictions don’t really work as well as people want because a virus is going to do what it does and aside from a complete and total shut down (which just helps short term) everything else are just bandaids. And like you said it’s not enforceable so all these restrictions do is ensure more people get together in private homes with no regulations. I haven’t looked at the numbers but imagine Texas having less people in more space to sprawl out also plays a role.
So if California has all these restrictions and Florida and Texas don’t, why are they doing better than us or not way worse off? Are Texas and Florida lying about the numbers? If so, can you lie about dead bodies?
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
Death's per 100K residents:
Florida: 108
Texas: 107
California: 72
U.S. COVID death rate by state 2023 | Statista
As of March 2023, Arizona had the highest COVID death rate in the U.S., with 455 deaths per 100,000 population. Hawaii had the lowest death rate.
www.statista.com
Regarding the true death count, they have already determined that Covid deaths have been way underreported, particularly among young people. I'll have to find the study again. A lot of those are in the younger demos, which make all of the chatter about it only affects old people so troubling.
This has to do with excess deaths (the number of deaths over what is expected in a given month or year.) So no you can't lie about dead bodies. The number of excess deaths in the US for 2020 is going to be massive.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Death's per 100K residents:
Florida: 108
Texas: 107
California: 72
U.S. COVID death rate by state 2023 | Statista
As of March 2023, Arizona had the highest COVID death rate in the U.S., with 455 deaths per 100,000 population. Hawaii had the lowest death rate.
Regarding the true death count, they have already determined that Covid deaths have been way underreported, particularly among young people. I'll have to find the study again. A lot of those are in the younger demos, which make all of the chatter about it only affects old people so troubling.
This has to do with excess deaths (the number of deaths over what is expected in a given month or year.) So no you can't lie about dead bodies. The number of excess deaths in the US for 2020 is going to be massive.
Not to downplay 40 more deaths per 100,000 as these are real people with families but I just wonder how Many people we re losing because of the economic impacts and mental health issues these regulations create. Maybe it can’t be measured now and we ll only know the full effect in a few years.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
We can look at Sweden which is worse off than all of its neighbors in terms of COVID and the economy. No place that has prioritized the economy is seeing a great economy. People dying and having symptoms for months (which is becoming more and more people) is going to have negative impacts on mental health. The places doing the best economically are the places where people took it seriously and dealt with the virus first.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
But what happens if we fumbled in the beginning? We can’t go back in time. Is there a comparable country in size and population that is doing significantly better than us?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Size can’t be an excuse. The issues are all the same. We might be bigger but we also have resources that are multiple times any other country. We’re supposedly the only global superpower and we’re talking about how things are hard.
But even with government missteps it shouldn’t be an issue of government. We have known for awhile now that the virus spreads person-to-person. We as free people should take the initiative and lead, not have to be told. That’s the issue. We’ve coddled anti-science garbage for years and just don’t want to be bothered.
Travel Junkie
Well-Known Member
By far the best way to see an economic recovery is getting the virus at least somewhat manageable. The countries that you have seen bounce back the quickest thus far have been in Asia. Why? They took it more seriously and had compliance among their citizens. I happened to be in SE Asia during January and February 2020. I was shocked when I returned the the US. Asia took it seriously and they have largely rebounded domestically. The economic hit most of those countries are still experiencing is related to international trade and tourism. Industries not affected by those factors are back to normal pretty much.
That doesn't mean they still don't have outbreaks. They still do. However they are contained and have compliance by their citizens to government measures. Only watch the news to see how compliant American's have been lately about any subject.
I think it's because the Science & Data shows that about 70% of the transmissions are happening in the home, not at Target or an outdoor patio at a Chili's. Even the Science & Data that LA County's legal team provided in their failed attempt to prove to the court that outdoor dining spread Covid showed that only 3% of Covid transmission was happening at restaurants, and most of that was among the kitchen staff in the back of a busy, crowded kitchen. It wasn't happening out on the patio.
Using that Science & Data, LA County shut down outdoor dining patios, but allowed takeout to continue so the kitchen staffs are all still in the back passing Covid to each other while the business flounders. Science & Data!
Texas is also doing extremely well in vaccine distribution and administration, beating California by a landslide. Even Florida, another state Californians love to hate, is doing dramatically better. Texas ranks 9th among the 50 states, Florida is 22nd, and California slipped two spots today to 44th. These stats are updated daily, and as of 1/13...
9. Texas - Population 30 Million
1,949,125 Doses Delivered, 46.7% Administered
22. Florida - Population 22 Million
1,676,300 Doses Delivered, 37.8% Administered
44. California - Population 39 Million
3,286,050 Doses Delivered, 24.4% Administered
How the individual states perform on their vaccine distribution and administration will be an interesting story to watch the next few months!
States ranked by percentage of COVID-19 vaccines administered: Nov. 30
Wisconsin has administered the highest percentage of COVID-19 vaccines it has received, according to the CDC's COVID-19 vaccine distribution and administration data tracker.
Death's per 100K residents:
Florida: 108
Texas: 107
California: 72
U.S. COVID death rate by state 2023 | Statista
As of March 2023, Arizona had the highest COVID death rate in the U.S., with 455 deaths per 100,000 population. Hawaii had the lowest death rate.
What's interesting about that is that those stats are already outdated. California rose higher today, to 79, while Texas and Florida remained the same. And then when you show the top states in the union for death rates, it really paints an interesting picture. No one in the media dares criticize the Democrat governors of New York or New Jersey, but their death tolls are the highest in the nation. By a landslide.
Deaths Per 100K Residents:
New Jersey: 226
New York: 206
Florida: 108
Texas: 107
California: 79
I would love to see that study if you find it! California, with 39 Million people, has reported only two (2) deaths of people under age 20 due to Covid thus far. One of those young people was here in Orange County; the Register reported she was a teenage girl who had a history of serious health problems since birth, and she passed away this past summer with Covid and battling all her other health problems.
If there's a bunch of extra deaths of young people dying of Covid, how are the hospitals hiding that exactly I wonder? Anyone who is admitted to a hospital gets a Covid test now, so it would be seemingly hard to hide the fact that you have Covid as you receive hospital treatments, regardless of what age you are.
The CDC does a very good job of tracking deaths and their causes, I agree. And you can't hide dead bodies. Similarly, you can't hide positive Covid tests, especially if that patient does eventually die. Thus, I'd be fascinated to see information that young Americans are dying of Covid and not being reported to their local health authorities.
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Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
California needs to be more responsible with our money – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)
>>The fraud in unemployment claims in California now reportedly totals as much as $4 billion.
That’s the latest number, according to sources who spoke to the Los Angeles Times. Earlier reports had the total fraud estimated at $2 billion, including a staggering amount of fraudulent claims paid out to people who are currently incarcerated in California as well as in other states.
This is a cautionary tale for California, which is about to embark on another expansion of another benefits program, the state Earned Income Tax Credit.
The CalEITC differs from unemployment benefits in that it’s paid by all taxpayers, while unemployment benefits are paid by employers. But the two programs are similar in one important way: People who fill out a form and give specific answers will receive money from the government.
The federal government has had an Earned Income Tax Credit for many years, and it has repeatedly been listed by government budget watchdogs as one of the programs “at high risk for improper payments.” According to the Treasury Department Inspector General, “The IRS estimates 25.3 percent ($17.4 billion) of the total EITC payments of $68.7 billion made in Fiscal Year 2019 were improper.”
In a report issued on April 30, 2020, the inspector general said its latest audit was initiated to assess the IRS’s compliance with the requirements of the Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Improvement Act of 2010, as well as Executive Order 13520 on Reducing Improper Payments, and also the Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Improvement Act of 2012. It’s a stubborn problem.
The inspector general’s audit found that improper payment reporting has improved, but there has been “no significant reductions to the billions of dollars of improper payments.”
What does this mean for California? At the very least, it means the CalEITC program should have oversight and safeguards in place to prevent and detect fraud.
California lawmakers first passed a state Earned Income Tax Credit in 2015. According to Calbudgetcenter.org, about 500,000 California households were eligible to receive payments under the original program. Two years later, eligibility for the EITC was expanded, and in 2019, nearly 3.9 million tax returns claimed the CalEITC.<<
>>The fraud in unemployment claims in California now reportedly totals as much as $4 billion.
That’s the latest number, according to sources who spoke to the Los Angeles Times. Earlier reports had the total fraud estimated at $2 billion, including a staggering amount of fraudulent claims paid out to people who are currently incarcerated in California as well as in other states.
This is a cautionary tale for California, which is about to embark on another expansion of another benefits program, the state Earned Income Tax Credit.
The CalEITC differs from unemployment benefits in that it’s paid by all taxpayers, while unemployment benefits are paid by employers. But the two programs are similar in one important way: People who fill out a form and give specific answers will receive money from the government.
The federal government has had an Earned Income Tax Credit for many years, and it has repeatedly been listed by government budget watchdogs as one of the programs “at high risk for improper payments.” According to the Treasury Department Inspector General, “The IRS estimates 25.3 percent ($17.4 billion) of the total EITC payments of $68.7 billion made in Fiscal Year 2019 were improper.”
In a report issued on April 30, 2020, the inspector general said its latest audit was initiated to assess the IRS’s compliance with the requirements of the Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Improvement Act of 2010, as well as Executive Order 13520 on Reducing Improper Payments, and also the Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Improvement Act of 2012. It’s a stubborn problem.
The inspector general’s audit found that improper payment reporting has improved, but there has been “no significant reductions to the billions of dollars of improper payments.”
What does this mean for California? At the very least, it means the CalEITC program should have oversight and safeguards in place to prevent and detect fraud.
California lawmakers first passed a state Earned Income Tax Credit in 2015. According to Calbudgetcenter.org, about 500,000 California households were eligible to receive payments under the original program. Two years later, eligibility for the EITC was expanded, and in 2019, nearly 3.9 million tax returns claimed the CalEITC.<<
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
California’s technology woes deepen – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)
>>While doing his stretch in solitary confinement as lieutenant governor of California, Gavin Newsom wrote a book entitled “Citizenville: How to Take the Town Square Digital and Reinvent Government.”
In the book, published in 2013, Newsom sang the praises of digital technology and its potential for making government and its services more transparent, more efficient and more responsive.
A half-decade later, Newsom succeeded Jerry Brown in the governorship and thus management of a state government that had been struggling, with little success, to implement the technological nirvana he envisioned.
Since then, it’s become even more evident that despite being the cradle of the digital revolution that has utterly transformed how humankind lives and works, California’s government just can’t make technology work well. In fact, its tech failures have gone the other way, making services even less reliable.
We’ve seen two spectacular examples in the first two years of Newsom’s governorship, meltdowns at the Department of Motor Vehicles and the Employment Development Department. The DMV fiasco was annoying, but the one at EDD has serious human consequences, delaying or denying cash benefits to those suddenly thrown out of work by COVID-19 shutdowns while allowing billions of dollars to be squandered on fraudulent claims.
Just this month, there was another. Software meant to hasten the distribution and application of vaccinations against COVID-19 stumbled, contributing to California’s subpar rollout of lifesaving inoculations against the dread disease and thus possibly adding to the pandemic’s already horrendous death roll.
Asked about the vaccination tech failures as he rolled out his new state budget last week, Newsom responded, rather lamely, “We have a lot of work to do in bringing California into the digital age.”
No kidding.
A day before Newsom’s budget announcement, the state auditor’s office gave California’s sorry efforts to implement technology another black mark on its most ambitious project, Financial Information System for California (FI$Cal), meant to become a centralized repository of financial data.<<
>>While doing his stretch in solitary confinement as lieutenant governor of California, Gavin Newsom wrote a book entitled “Citizenville: How to Take the Town Square Digital and Reinvent Government.”
In the book, published in 2013, Newsom sang the praises of digital technology and its potential for making government and its services more transparent, more efficient and more responsive.
A half-decade later, Newsom succeeded Jerry Brown in the governorship and thus management of a state government that had been struggling, with little success, to implement the technological nirvana he envisioned.
Since then, it’s become even more evident that despite being the cradle of the digital revolution that has utterly transformed how humankind lives and works, California’s government just can’t make technology work well. In fact, its tech failures have gone the other way, making services even less reliable.
We’ve seen two spectacular examples in the first two years of Newsom’s governorship, meltdowns at the Department of Motor Vehicles and the Employment Development Department. The DMV fiasco was annoying, but the one at EDD has serious human consequences, delaying or denying cash benefits to those suddenly thrown out of work by COVID-19 shutdowns while allowing billions of dollars to be squandered on fraudulent claims.
Just this month, there was another. Software meant to hasten the distribution and application of vaccinations against COVID-19 stumbled, contributing to California’s subpar rollout of lifesaving inoculations against the dread disease and thus possibly adding to the pandemic’s already horrendous death roll.
Asked about the vaccination tech failures as he rolled out his new state budget last week, Newsom responded, rather lamely, “We have a lot of work to do in bringing California into the digital age.”
No kidding.
A day before Newsom’s budget announcement, the state auditor’s office gave California’s sorry efforts to implement technology another black mark on its most ambitious project, Financial Information System for California (FI$Cal), meant to become a centralized repository of financial data.<<
unmitigated disaster
Well-Known Member
Where do you live that young people are never around the elderly and people at risk? Next you're going to tell us that because Typhoid Mary never suffered from Typhoid those who had contact with her and got ill or died were mythical. And we all know no Native Americans died of European diseases like smallpox after contact with Europeans.
truecoat
Well-Known Member
It’s called population density. The east coast has the highest density in the country. On top of this, you are comparing 3 other high population states that sit in much better climates where people spend more time outside.
planodisney
Well-Known Member
Those are interesting numbers in terms of death rate per 100,000, but I’m talking about numbers based on the last few weeks of California having renewed lockdown measures and Texas opening up more every week. Texas numbers are lower even when taking the population in to account.
Just look at today’s case and death numbers for both states. Every state has areas where people don’t take measures as seriously. That’s not unique to California.
Just look at today’s case and death numbers for both states. Every state has areas where people don’t take measures as seriously. That’s not unique to California.
They spend more time outside in Florida and Texas this winter.
California banned outdoor dining two months ago, forcing young people inside to unregulated home environments instead of highly regulated/sanitized outdoor restaurants.
Yes, if you are talking about transmission rates those numbers are much better in Texas than California. On a rolling average of the past seven days, California is the 2nd highest case rate in the nation and Texas is 24th. Florida is 26th.
Average Daily Covid Cases Per 100K For Last Seven Days, As Of 1/13/21
California = 107 Cases Per 100K
Texas = 75 Cases Per 100K
Florida = 72 Cases Per 100K
COVID Data Tracker
CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.
covid.cdc.gov