Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[bestcoastracer]

The issue is unofficial Social gatherings, where few, if any, wear mask or observe 6 feet distancing.

Operating restaurants, shops, malls, museums, casinos, etc. were they do temperature checks, require mask wearing (exception of eating/drinking while keeping the 6 foot distance), social distancing, etc. is NOT spreading COVID, as proven in multiple courts.

Yes, good luck going to East LA or South LA to stop these neighborhood parties. (Yes, LAPD/LASD is trying to find and stop Super Spreader events). But then, laws in those areas tend to not be followed more often in general.

But why punish the Law Abiding residents of California? As we are seeing, these folks, after seeing the Politicians breaking their own rules, are now operating when the current rules don't allow it.

If being in close quarters are bad, why are planes being allowed to operate?

The rules don't make sense.

Could you show evidence of these "East" or "South" LA parties being the main source of being super-spreader events? It comes off as dog-whistling and you should be ashamed of yourself for someone who is a City-Counsel member.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Could you show evidence of these "East" or "South" LA parties being the main source of being super-spreader events? It comes off as dog-whistling and you should be ashamed of yourself for someone who is a City-Counsel member.

First off, I am not a City Councilperson, or any other elected official.

67 arrested after sheriff’s officials break up party in Compton; deputies respond to 2 other ‘super-spreader’ events | KTLA

Los Angeles County party: 158 people arrested, sex trafficking victim recovered at coronavirus 'super spreader' party - CNN

Los Angeles Coronavirus (COVID-19) Hot Spot Tracker Map by Neighborhood (covid19losangeles.org)

 

[Pete Schweddy]

If you or someone in your care is in a high risk group, stay home. Other than that, live your life as you see fit. Take precautions as you feel comfortable with.

Politicians who should have access to all the science, experts and data don't even follow the rules they make up.

If you work in a service industry and don't feel comfortable going back to work, stay home and collect unemployment. That's probably what you're doing now anyways, so let those that want to work get on with it.

 

[TP2000]

Hmm, might be the reason due to LA County is now AVERAGING over 13k new cases daily when just last month it was averaging 1300.

I mean just last week LA County hit 21k new cases, but I'm sure there is no direct correlation between people ignoring the stay at home orders and the huge spike in new cases. Oh and your beloved OC also saw a 10x increase in cases going from 300 new cases daily last month to now averaging over 3k daily this month. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with people ignoring the stay at home orders either.

What you are seeing is the huge rise in cases all over California, and the world. San Francisco County has also seen a massive spike, and is triple the caseload that OC had six weeks ago and headed higher.

And as the Contact Tracing across California has shown, about 70% of the cases are traced right back to homes. Particularly crowded home environments of the working classes where five or six or eight people are living in small apartments, often multi-generational with kids and parents and grandparents all in a 1,000 square foot apartment.

That's just the Science & Data as proved by Contact Tracing.

But sure, have bureaucrats close Downtown Disney restaurants and remove a highly regulated outdoor environment where people can safely gather, and instead force them into indoor dinner parties and household gatherings. Science & Data!

 

[TP2000]

Its the cross mixing of households that is causing the rise is cases. That can be at ANY location, whether a private party or a Downtown LA restaurant.

No. LA County's own Contact Tracing shows that this past fall before their outdoor patios were closed, LA County restaurants accounted for 3.4% of Covid cases. That's three point four percent. And most of those cases were the employees, young kids working in fast food restaurants where they stand shoulder to shoulder flipping burgers.

LA County government offices make up over 7% of Covid cases according to Contact Tracing.

Private home environments were responsible for about 70% of Covid cases according to Contact Tracing.

And yet, restaurants are closed, government is still open, and the government has done everything they can to prevent people from leaving their homes where the most Covid cases happen. Science & Data!

How much are restaurants contributing to the spread of COVID-19 in LA County?

Data from L.A. County's health department shows a small percentage of outbreaks have been tied to restaurants and bars. But some have been cited for coronavirus-related violations.

abc7.com

 

[TP2000]

Could you show evidence of these "East" or "South" LA parties being the main source of being super-spreader events? It comes off as dog-whistling and you should be ashamed of yourself for someone who is a City-Counsel member.

Dog whistling to who? What's he whistling about? The Science & Data for months and months has shown that the poorer zip codes in East and South Los Angeles have the highest rates of Covid cases, and the general hypothesis is because those folks are living with more people in smaller homes and apartments. They also use public transit, and work in jobs that don't allow them to stay home to get paid six figures for Zoom meetings while drinking Cabernet. In short, the working classes of south and east LA do all the things that subject them more to Covid transmission.

This map that was just updated on December 21st shows the most cases in LA County are found in the working class neighborhoods south and east of the downtown core.

Upper-Middle Class Redondo Beach and Santa Monica have very low Covid rates, while Working Class Lynwood and South Central have very high rates. Covid is practically non-existent in Upper Class Bel Air or Pacific Palisades. This is simply the Science & Data, and you don't even have to know how to whistle to see it.

 

[TP2000]

No one I know knows anyone who has it or has been bedridden or killed as a result of it in recent history. I continue to go out every day into the Chinavirus Frontier to work. Can't just stay home and lose my paychecks. Where's my vaccine dosage? Looks like a 31 year old congresswoman who can Skype for work has gotten it to show off on social media, but this Frontline Essential Worker still hasn't even been offered it.

I don't know anyone who has it either. If anyone in my social circle got it, or lives with someone who got it, then they kept it hidden very well and managed their social calendar brilliantly from spring through Christmas.

I did hear from the local gossip there was a household down the hill who had kids and a parent who tested positive for it, but the mom and one of the kids only had the sniffles and recovered.

Granted, I live in a zip code that has very low transmission rates. And spent the summer in a zip code with very low transmission rates. And drove up to Thanksgiving with people who all live in very low transmission rate zip codes. But still, for a pandemic entering it's 10th month, you'd think I'd know someone who has at least had it.

The Vaccine should first go to those most at Risks, Those in Nursing Homes or 75 years of age or older.

Not to politicians and Social Influencers. Let them go to Nursing Homes and create Photo/Video/Audio ops, showing the Nursing Home Residents getting a shot!

I heard on the radio tonight that Governor Newsom has a meeting tomorrow to "decide which Californians should get the vaccine next after health care workers", and I literally yelled at the radio "THE OLD PEOPLE, YOU IDIOT!"

For politicians and bureaucrats who claim they only follow the Science & Data, they seem to not actually follow Science & Data a lot.

Covid-19 primarily kills old people. The vast majority of deaths are in those over the age of 65. Over 40% of Covid deaths in California (and the USA) have been in old people living in nursing homes.

I am not a rocket scientist nor am I a doctor, but even I can tell you that the first round of vaccines should go to people over the age of 80. Then expand that to people over 75. Then when more shots arrive, expand it to 70 and older. Then 65. Etc., etc.

Of course there's the simple fact that most Covid deaths involve co-morbidities, and the biggest are heart disease, lung disease (smokers) and obesity. So target the sickly and the overweight as well, taking into account their age.

So a 70 year old fat man should get the vaccine before a 35 year old thin man. An 82 year old woman who smoked from 1956 to 2012 should get the vaccine before a 38 year old lady non-smoker who jogs three times a week and Instagrams her Kale salads.

Or, just do the TP2000 Scientific Method and give it to the oldest people first this winter, and then work your way down to middle aged folks by spring, and the college kids and schoolkids this summer. Rinse & Repeat. Science & Data.

 

[Disney Irish]

No. LA County's own Contact Tracing shows that this past fall before their outdoor patios were closed, LA County restaurants accounted for 3.4% of Covid cases. That's three point four percent. And most of those cases were the employees, young kids working in fast food restaurants where they stand shoulder to shoulder flipping burgers.

LA County government offices make up over 7% of Covid cases according to Contact Tracing.

Private home environments were responsible for about 70% of Covid cases according to Contact Tracing.

And yet, restaurants are closed, government is still open, and the government has done everything they can to prevent people from leaving their homes where the most Covid cases happen. Science & Data!

How much are restaurants contributing to the spread of COVID-19 in LA County?

Data from L.A. County's health department shows a small percentage of outbreaks have been tied to restaurants and bars. But some have been cited for coronavirus-related violations.

abc7.com

And for all your soap boxing you just confirmed exactly what I just said. I never said it was restaurants alone, never even made that statement at all and never have, which by the way even if the 3.4% is true is STILL NOT ZERO. I said it was ANYWHERE that mixing of households occurs, meaning someone you don't live with. That can be at an office building for a multi-Billion dollar corporation, a government building, a restaurant, a small business, or even at a private residence where someone has a "few" people over. Its the mixing NO MATTER THE LOCATION that is causing a rise in cases all over the state.

 

[TP2000]

And for all your soap boxing you just confirmed exactly what I just said. I never said it was restaurants alone, never even made that statement at all and never have, which by the way even if the 3.4% is true is STILL NOT ZERO. I said it was ANYWHERE that mixing of households occurs, meaning someone you don't live with. That can be at an office building for a multi-Billion dollar corporation, a government building, a restaurant, a small business, or even at a private residence where someone has a "few" people over. Its the mixing NO MATTER THE LOCATION that is causing a rise in cases all over the state.

Perfect. And you just proved what angers so many hardworking, honest taxpayers and small business owners.

3.4% of cases in a county of 10.1 Million people were traced to restaurants. The majority of those were not customers, but kitchen employees of fast food restaurants where the kitchens are small and crowded. This isn't out on the patios of upscale dining locations like Ballast Point Brewery or Naples Ristorante at Downtown Disney.

And yet 3.4% of cases, not deaths, merely cases, were traced to restaurants and so that means all restaurants must be put out of business and hundreds of thousands of lives ruined? While over twice that amount of cases is traceable to government offices, yet government bureaucrats all get to keep their cushy jobs and government stays in business?

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Meanwhile, 70% of Covid cases are being traced to private households. So let's encourage people to stay indoors in their crowded households in working class neighborhoods where Covid is most widespread. Science & Data.

 

[TP2000]

Courts have proven nothing. A judge is not a scientist nor is a court ruling anywhere near comparable to actual scientific research.

If you have secret Science & Data that proves outdoor patio dining spreads Covid, you should probably call the health authorities of both Los Angeles and San Diego counties first thing in the morning! Because both of those large, wealthy counties with well-paid legal teams lost their court cases quickly and resoundingly in recent weeks because they couldn't provide a shred of evidence that outdoor dining spread Covid.

Or, in the case of San Diego, that indoor dining with topless ladies entertaining Socially Distanced diners, spread Covid.

Seriously, if there's some evidence out there that proves all these restaurants should remain closed for another year and then through the 2021-2022 flu season, you should get that evidence out to some legal teams ASAP. They obviously need your help, because they keep losing in court.

 

[Disney Irish]

Perfect. And you just proved what angers so many hardworking, honest taxpayers and small business owners.

3.4% of cases in a county of 10.1 Million people were traced to restaurants. The majority of those were not customers, but kitchen employees of fast food restaurants where the kitchens are small and crowded. This isn't out on the patios of upscale dining locations like Ballast Point Brewery or Naples Ristorante at Downtown Disney.

View attachment 520145

And yet 3.4% of cases, not deaths, merely cases, were traced to restaurants and so that means all restaurants must be put out of business and hundreds of thousands of lives ruined? While over twice that amount of cases is traceable to government offices, yet government bureaucrats all get to keep their cushy jobs and government stays in business?

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Meanwhile, 70% of Covid cases are being traced to private households. So let's encourage people to stay indoors in their crowded households in working class neighborhoods where Covid is most widespread. Science & Data.

And you still missed the point, or more precisely ignore them. The point isn't restaurants vs government buildings vs private household gatherings. IT ALL IS A SOURCE OF NEW INFECTIONS, the science and data backs this up, you've proven that yourself. That is the point.

Also I'd like to point out even in the article you posted there is at least a 19% (likely more) non-compliance rate for social distancing requirements for restaurants. So that's thousands of restaurants with tens of thousands of potential customers and employees all at risk for contracting COVID.

But you go ahead and keep continuing with your diatribes.

 

[DisneyDrum]

While you're arguing how silly the restaurant restrictions are - there are only 30 ICU beds left in LA county, and we clearly haven't hit a peak in hospitalizations

What would you do instead of the restaurant restrictions? There are limits to what the government can do. How would you convince folks to stop gathering, wear masks, and cut down on infections? All this criticism comes off as petty compared to the crisis we're going to face in the upcoming weeks. Just hope you don't have to go the hospital...

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Well, I appreciate Home Depot being open so I can buy supplies for work and use their restrooms on break.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The reason I take issue with the restaraunt ban as well is because every mall and every store inside is open. People are touching items on the shelves and its not like those are disinfected.

Many non-essential stores are open and if the government is worried about the spread of the virus, only grocery stores and home improvement stores would be open.

Surfaces haven’t been a major concern for some time now. And which is it? Is it ridiculous to close most places or is ridiculous to only close some places? It’s hypocritical to be upset that more isn’t open and then deride it as nonsense when more is allowed to stay open.

 

[DisneyDrum]

I'm not hypocritical at all. I'm saying the metrics for what stays open and what stays closed unfairly targets certain industries without making any sense.

Restaurants=no masks when eating and mixing of different households. That seems to make sense to me

 

[flutas]

And as the Contact Tracing across California has shown, about 70% of the cases are traced right back to homes. Particularly crowded home environments of the working classes where five or six or eight people are living in small apartments, often multi-generational with kids and parents and grandparents all in a 1,000 square foot apartment.

And where did they get it? The virus doesn't just poof into existence at random homes at night like some sort of chinese caused boogyman.

Let's take a hypothetical scenario.

If someone gets it at DTD while dining with a friend, then gives it to 5 people in their household...didn't DTD just give it to 6 people? Yet as you would claim in this scenario "over 80% got it from their household, only 1 person got it from DTD."

 

[TP2000]

And you still missed the point, or more precisely ignore them. The point isn't restaurants vs government buildings vs private household gatherings. IT ALL IS A SOURCE OF NEW INFECTIONS, the science and data backs this up, you've proven that yourself. That is the point.

Restaurants=no masks when eating and mixing of different households. That seems to make sense to me

You guys really need to reach out to the legal teams being paid big bucks to represent LA County and San Diego County in court. Because those legal teams keep losing in court due to the fact they are completely unable to provide any Science & Data the state and local bureaucrats have used to close restaurants.

After many folks were increasingly suspicious that these industry closures were entirely arbitrary and not backed by Science & Data, that exact opinion has been validated by multiple judges in multiple court cases this month.

That is the point.

But if you've got secret Science & Data to help these highly paid legal teams win these court cases, you really should be emailing Sacramento ASAP. They'll need the help next month.

I'm not hypocritical at all. I'm saying the metrics for what stays open and what stays closed unfairly targets certain industries without making any sense.

Exactly. And that's also what the judges said when handing down victories in court to restaurants, and even strip clubs. These restaurant closures are completely arbitrary and it turns out the bureaucrats have not been using Science & Data.

Just think about that; a couple of strip clubs in San Diego hired a cheap lawyer and went up against the wealth and might of an entire legal team representing a giant bureaucracy. And the strip club lawyer easily won.

There's no Science & Data being used here. Just panic and arbitrary power grabs.

 

[TP2000]

And where did they get it? The virus doesn't just poof into existence at random homes at night like some sort of chinese caused boogyman.

Let's take a hypothetical scenario.

If someone gets it at DTD while dining with a friend, then gives it to 5 people in their household...didn't DTD just give it to 6 people? Yet as you would claim in this scenario "over 80% got it from their household, only 1 person got it from DTD."

Well, actually the virus was from China, but I don't think it involved a boogeyman.

The point is that there is no Science & Data that proves sitting at a disinfected table set 10 feet from each other on an outdoor patio is how you'll get Covid. There is no evidence that this is the environment where Covid is spreading.

Covid is spreading primarily in the home. Especially when folks have parties and gatherings that are completely unregulated by the government, and there's no Dockers-clad manager hovering in the dining room to make sure Aunt Clara wipes down the table with disinfectant when the kids are done playing Scrabble.

So if World of Disney can remain open to sell mountains of Chinese made waste that no one actually needs, then Ballast Point Brewery and all the other Downtown Disney restaurants should also be able to remain open. Especially the ample patio dining spaces, even though there's no Science & Data that shows indoor dining is any more dangerous than outdoor dining.

I thought of this thread last night. At about 10:45pm I left my home and went down to Target to pick up one non-essential item I needed today, and in true Target fashion I found five other things I also didn't need. Since it was four days until Christmas the store was surprisingly busy and open until Midnight. No one disinfected the products I picked up after I touched them, and God only knows how many dozens of random people had touched the things I bought over the past few days.

That type of Target retail experience; operating past the fake 10pm "Statewide Curfew" to buy silly baubles that are nowhere close to being Essential or Critical, is very typical. And yet all the restauranteurs have to destroy their businesses and the livelihoods of all their employees? It makes absolutely no sense. It's completely arbitrary.

 

[DisneyDrum]

It makes absolutely no sense. It's completely arbitrary.

So you wrote lots of text, but didn't engage with my argument. You can wear masks the entire time you are in Target, but not while you're eating dinner. You need to buy groceries, not eat in a restaurant. These seem like clear differences.

Therefore...it's not arbitrary. The state is trying its best to limit the spread. It sucks for restaurants, and the government should do more to support them.

 

[TP2000]

So you wrote lots of text, but didn't engage with my argument. You can wear masks the entire time you are in Target, but not while you're eating dinner. You need to buy groceries, not eat in a restaurant. These seem like clear differences.

Therefore...it's not arbitrary. The state is trying its best to limit the spread. It sucks for restaurants, and the government should do more to support them.

There's no Science & Data that proves that. Not only that, the Contact Tracing evidence the LA County legal team provided in court actually showed restaurants had dramatically less risk of transmission than other industries that are allowed to stay open. LA County torpedoed their own case with what little evidence they brought to court.

The judge in the LA County case stated quite clearly in his ruling that what state and local bureaucrats and political leaders are doing is arbitrary.

"...the county acted arbitrarily and its decision lacks a rational relationship to a legitimate end,'' -Superior Court Judge Chalafant, in his ruling against the County of Los Angeles.

Judge says LA County acted 'arbitrarily' in banning outdoor dining

L.A. County health officials acted "arbitrarily'' and without a proper "risk-benefit" analysis when they banned outdoor dining as a coronavirus-control measure, a judge ruled Tuesday.

abc7.com