'Strange World' Disney's 2022 Animated Film

[TP2000]

As a gay man, I’m delighted that young queer people are finally able to see people like themselves in Disney productions. Perhaps it’ll help them to feel better about themselves than I did. Hurrah for progress!

Unfortunately, statistically very few of them actually saw Strange World. Most people don't even know it exists.

 

[LittleBuford]

Unfortunately, statistically very few of them actually saw Strange World. Most people don't even know it exists.

I was making a general point. Queerness in Disney films and shows is here to stay, regardless of how Strange World did. And it’s a wonderful thing!

 

[TP2000]

I was making a general point. Queerness in Disney films and shows is here to stay, regardless of how Strange World did. And it’s a wonderful thing!

I agree with that as a point for general entertainment, particularly for adult movies that are rated PG-13 or R.

But I will be watching very closely for Elemental and Wish and future family animation from Burbank to see if they try shoehorning in more gay characters into family films. I'm thinking they're going to pause and pull back on that for now.

The box office failure of Strange World, much of it of their own making marketing-wise, has to mean something to them. Disney is a business, not a social service agency or educational department funded by the UN. This current path is not sustainable for their business.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think it all depends on what the characters are doing, I wouldn’t want a movie geared for 8 year olds to show anyone (straight or gay) being intimate beyond a hug or a welcome home kiss, up to that point though I don’t see the harm in it whether it’s a straight or gay couple.

I’m surprised you would draw the line at a welcome-home kiss. Classic Disney animated films often depict full-on snogging:

Would you consider this inappropriate for an eight-year-old? (I’m asking sincerely, by the way, not to catch you out or anything!)

 

[BrianLo]

Anyway being discriminated against has nothing to do with the childrens movies we’re talking about.

Part of this stems from heterosexuality being normative and homosexuality being taboo likely in the era you grew up. That makes homosexuality unfortunately seen more 'sexualized' than it really should be. Little Mermaid by all accounts is a kind of raunchy film and I assume something you would have seen during your own childhood.

Why Childrens films matter is because if they become an indiscriminate lens homosexuality becomes more 'normative' and therefore less sexualized for a future generation. I think the goal is to make it normal, but unfortunately the implication that a gay crush is inappropriate, but a straight one is... then gay isn't really normal.

(American) Society isn't clearly there yet, you are right. But I do think that's why Children's movies actually do matter for the next generation.

 

[ILoveWDW4ever]

Because of a brief depiction of a narratively inconsequential gay crush? Are straight audiences really that easily triggered?

As I pointed out earlier. No. So many mainstream, gay families and couples in entertainment.

The problem is, and this is a real issue. Disneys reputation has changed. They used to be known for making creative, funny, exciting, family movies. Now, they are known for diversity and inclusion in film making. Not both. Just the latter.

If I see a new Disney movie/series coming out, I just assume it’s going to be pandering. And it looks like I’m not alone.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

But how it is overbearing if it’s a five-minute subplot that has no bearing on the overall plot?

Have you ever met a four year old? A five minute subplot mean four hours of questions that day, and 45 minutes of questions every day for the next month. Lots of kids have simplified worldviews where a "family" is a mom and a dad who fall in love and have children. They don't understand same-sex relationships just like they don't understand divorce, single parenthood, split custody, adoption, infertility, surrogacy, teen pregnancy, contraception, abortion, and ten thousand other concepts in the sphere of sexuality and family formation.

A parent who doesn't want those conversations sprung on them isn't evil or a bigot, they just don't want to be forced into grand conversations about the nature of humanity when they're trying to watch a fun family movie.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Part of this stems from heterosexuality being normative and homosexuality being taboo likely in the era you grew up. That makes homosexuality unfortunately seen more 'sexualized' than it really should be. Little Mermaid by all accounts is a kind of raunchy film and I assume something you would have seen during your own childhood.

Why Childrens films matter is because if they become an indiscriminate lens homosexuality becomes more 'normative' and therefore less sexualized for a future generation. I think the goal is to make it normal, but unfortunately the implication that a gay crush is inappropriate, but a straight one is... then gay isn't really normal.

(American) Society isn't clearly there yet, you are right. But I do think that's why Children's movies actually do matter for the next generation.

Two points.

1. Normalization is partially a reflection of what's considered acceptable and what's considered taboo, like you said, but it's also a reflection of what's  common. If all you've ever seen in your life are blue cars and all of a sudden you see a red car, the red car is going to stand out to you, even if you have zero moral or religious or cultural or any other sort of objection to red cars. There are neighborhoods in this country where half the people are LGBTQ, and there are neighborhoods where no one is. In those neighborhoods, and for kids who have lived in them their whole lives, it's something that will *stand out* even if it's not seen as *taboo.*

2. Oh the topic of why homosexuality is seen as more sexualized, I've been thinking about it and I have a theory. When parents introduce the idea of sex to children, it's not framed in terms of pleasure or even romance. It's framed in terms of procreation. "This part goes here because this from the man and that from the woman need to combine inside of the woman and that's where babies come from." It's all very clinical. When you're talking about a same-sex relationship, there's no procreative angle to approach it from so you lose the ability to frame things that way. When you take away the possibility of the creation of children, you're left with sex-for-sex's sake. Obviously there are a lot of straight people having sex-for-sex's sake too, but at least parents have an "out" in those situations.

 

[Chi84]

Two points.

1. Normalization is partially a reflection of what's considered acceptable and what's considered taboo, like you said, but it's also a reflection of what's  common. If all you've ever seen in your life are blue cars and all of a sudden you see a red car, the red car is going to stand out to you, even if you have zero moral or religious or cultural or any other sort of objection to red cars. There are neighborhoods in this country where half the people are LGBTQ, and there are neighborhoods where no one is. In those neighborhoods, and for kids who have lived in them their whole lives, it's something that will *stand out* even if it's not seen as *taboo.*

2. Oh the topic of why homosexuality is seen as more sexualized, I've been thinking about it and I have a theory. When parents introduce the idea of sex to children, it's not framed in terms of pleasure or even romance. It's framed in terms of procreation. "This part goes here because this from the man and that from the woman need to combine inside of the woman and that's where babies come from." It's all very clinical. When you're talking about a same-sex relationship, there's no procreative angle to approach it from so you lose the ability to frame things that way. When you take away the possibility of the creation of children, you're left with sex-for-sex's sake. Obviously there are a lot of straight people having sex-for-sex's sake too, but at least parents have an "out" in those situations.

I understand what you're saying, but we're talking about a kiss or hand-holding in a movie. Those actions don't have to lead to introducing the idea of sex to children. From the earliest age, children understand kissing and hand-holding as displays of love and affection between people without connecting them to sex. When kids see Prince Charming kiss Cinderella, are parents going into full on explanations of what parts go where for procreation?

 

[Andrew C]

I just want a return to good animated features....

 

[Phroobar]

I just want a return to good animated features....

That is what Illumination is for.

 

[DKampy]

Remember, as of today Wakanda Forever still hasn't earned a profit. It cost $250 Million to produce, and it's global box office hasn't yet broken the 3X The Budget threshold of $750 Million. That will happen sometime this weekend, but it's already petering out at the box office. Wakanda Forever may only make $100 Million or less for Burbank.

And you want them to continue making flops like Lightyear and Strange World just to prove a point?

That's not realistically or financially sustainable, no matter how lofty the ambition.

so 100 million in profit net gain is a flop…here’s to me flopping

 

[Phroobar]

Agreed 100% they also c

so 100 million in profit net gain is a flop…here’s to me flopping

It still doesn't make expected returns. Breaking even is not expected for a Marvel movie no matter how much they hype up the death of last movie's star as part of their marketing.

 

[DKampy]

Well, it may be worth asking yourself why you feel that way.

As a gay man, I’m delighted that young queer people are finally able to see people like themselves in Disney productions. Perhaps it’ll help them to feel better about themselves than I did growing up. Hurrah for progress!

Agreed…my nephew just came out..and I know it has been tough on him…you know who you are attracted to by your teen years…how does one even go about being honest with your peers at that age…the more we normalize it… the less stigma there will be…it takes all different people to make this world go around…your a narcissist if you think everything revolves what make you up as a person

By the way the largest suicidal group is gay teens

 

[MrPromey]

I used to feel this way. Then I realised the importance of allyship, particularly given that those who dislike us tend to group us all together as deviants anyway. We are stronger together.

I'm not sure your age but these are people from an "older generation" - not the ones everyone focuses on with this kind of stuff, these days, it seems.

They became adults in a time when it wasn't talked about, when it was something they were taught to be ashamed of, etc. and that was broadly accepted as okay by the wider culture at large - not just something you had to be careful of in certain towns or parts of the country (obviously, this is very specific to the US) - when certain subjects in media, if addressed at all, were punchlines - like Three's Company.

They're point, I believe, wasn't so much that they didn't feel for these other people as it was "see me as an individual". They never signed up for any culture war and seemed tired of people assuming what they are and aren't for, just because they've been in an almost 30 year same-sex relationship.

... and I get that.

As I get older, I find myself a lot less passionate about "causes" in general than I was when I was younger and more about making my way through life and trying to raise a self-aware confident son who doesn't fall into any of the traps I see around him - things like nine year olds committing suicide. (His cousin had one in her school last year and I had to talk about it with him because she'd told him about it)

I understand that in the broader sense, the world around him that he will live in still matters but I see a strong point of diminishing returns when it comes to spitting into the wind for change in that world when I could put that same energy and focus into helping him become stronger and better learn to navigate it.

He'll have his own time for the causes he chooses, just like I did mine.

For them, they have no children and maybe you could consider them selfish for not wanting to pay it forward more but I think that comes down to perspective from a generational standpoint.

Things have already changed more in the last 10-15 years than all of human history combined. They've gone from not sharing their relationship openly with people they aren't close to, to being able to legally get married with equal respect in the eyes of the law within a single decade.

I remember when the person in question came out to me, he was anticipating some form of shock and actually seemed a little disappointed when he didn't get it but when you really know a person, it's hard for them to hide who they are... and I had an unusual childhood. Most kids don't get taken to see Trockadero by their grandmother when they're seven years old - so I didn't particularly care about the non-shocking reveal.

There will always be progress to be made with everything but there are only so many years in a human life and at some point, when the reality of that sets in, you have to start thinking about how you want to spend what you have left of them.

For a younger more passionate person, that may seem selfish but again, I get it - everyone has their time.

 

[DKampy]

It still doesn't make expected returns. Breaking even is not expected for a Marvel movie no matter how much they hype up the death of last movie's star as part of their marketing.

Except it is not breaking even..it will make 100 million in profit at the very least

Edit: It is still ahead of Strange MOM at this point in it’s run and that made close to a billion

 

[Ghost93]

But I will be watching very closely for Elemental and Wish and future family animation from Burbank to see if they try shoehorning in more gay characters into family films. I'm thinking they're going to pause and pull back on that for now.

She's not always reliable, but Grace Randolph from Beyond the Trailer said she's heard that Wish will have "strong" LGBTQ representation.

However, she made this statement before the box office failure of Strange World. Ariana DeBose, who is voicing the main character, is "openly queer," so it could have been seen as an opportunity by Disney to have its first lesbian princess voiced by a queer actress. We shall see next November.

 

[Heppenheimer]

But some of you are misidentifying the issue and therefore hoping for a kind of change that I find totally objectionable, because it's basically asking Disney to pander to reactionary fearmongering. Wherever we stand on the issue ideologically, we all know that Disney is never going to go back to making films that don't feature queer characters and romances. The shift has happened, and it's permanent.

I agree that lessons should be learnt from the poor reception of Lightyear (which I found extremely boring) and Strange Word (which I haven't seen yet and so can't really comment on). But those lessons have to do with storytelling, marketing, etc. Representation and diversity are not the problem here.

I just hope Disney Feature Animation stays away from science fiction. They really do no have a good track record with the genre, but to be fair, most other animation studios don't either.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I’m surprised you would draw the line at a welcome-home kiss. Classic Disney animated films often depict full-on snogging:

Would you consider this inappropriate for an eight-year-old? (I’m asking sincerely, by the way, not to catch you out or anything!)

Perhaps should have just said a kiss, many movies have a kiss or two in some form.

 

[LittleBuford]

The problem is, and this is a real issue. Disneys reputation has changed. They used to be known for making creative, funny, exciting, family movies. Now, they are known for diversity and inclusion in film making. Not both. Just the latter.

“Used to” suggests a long time ago, yet most of Disney’s recent animated films have been pretty well received. Does the failure of Strange World undo the success of Encanto that easily for you?