'Strange World' Disney's 2022 Animated Film

[Heppenheimer]

I admit to enjoying both Treasure Planet and Atlantis. I rewatched them recently and think they’re both much better than their reputation suggests.

Treasure Planet, yes I agree. Atlantis, not so much. The world-building was too rushed, and I don't know about you, but I found Atlantis itself and the people who lived there completely uninteresting. And it doesn't help in retrospect that Avatar later did essentially the same plot, but with much more impressive visuals.

I've been pondering about this, and I think the problems with audience reception to animated science fiction comes down to what the average theater goer wants from the genre: lasers and things blowing up. High tech but somewhat antiseptic violence. No, I'm not saying that this is what all science fiction fans probably want, its just part of the expectations for general audiences, who just want good entertainment for an hour or two.

For animated films that mostly need to succeed with families, you can't feature the same level of violence that would be seen in a live action film (although The Incredibles came kind of close). You'd think it would be the opposite, but for some reason, watching the violent death of an animated character just seems so much more disturbing than the often sanitized deaths in live action movies (all those stormtroopers...). So, the easiest go-to tropes in science fiction for marketing to audiences needs to be toned down or eliminated when the film is animated.

Or maybe not at all. I'm just speculating here.

I don't think the problem is that Disney doesn't have the ability to make a good animated science fiction film, I just think it's an uphill battle to sell it to general audiences.

 

[MrPromey]

Would you feel the same if the crush were on a girl?

This whole discussion would be a lot easier, I think, if everyone involved would actually see the movie.

Watching people go back-and-forth on what they've read or what they assume is... well, it's not doing anything except teasing out the biases and apparently blissful ignorance in some of the people doing the talking.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

But those conversations are going to happen anyway. Young people today are inevitably going to encounter depictions of queer love, if not actual queer people expressing affection for one another out there in the real world.

Of course they are. It's not about hiding everything forever, it's about introducing things at a pace that's appropriate for each family and each child. (Again, not "appropriate" like "gays are evil," "appropriate" like "what concepts can my child wrap her head around at what age?")

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This whole discussion would be a lot easier, I think, if everyone involved would actually see the movie.

Watching people go back-and-forth on what they've read or what they assume is... well, it's not getting anything anywhere.

But that's sort of the point, right? We're not debating the content of the movie on its merits for people who have seen it, we're debating whether the content of the movie as perceived by the general public is directly responsible (at least in part) for people not seeing it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Normalization is partially a reflection of what's considered acceptable and what's considered taboo, like you said, but it's also a reflection of what's  common. If all you've ever seen in your life are blue cars and all of a sudden you see a red car, the red car is going to stand out to you, even if you have zero moral or religious or cultural or any other sort of objection to red cars.

This analogy breaks down by considering that:

Imagine all your life in the real world you've seen 95% of cars being blue and 5% of cars being red.

But, in every movie you've ever seen, all the cars are blue. Red cars are never shown.

Then someone makes a movie with two red cars prominently featured. For that movie, it seems that red cars have an outsized proportion. "Why is this movie so red-car-centric!!!"

And yet, amongst all movies, red cars show up still less than 1% of the time.

This not only applies to Queer people, but Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians.

Just getting them represented in all movies such that they are represented at the same proportion they appear in real life, which would be equitable, gets labeled as 'woke.'

Children in a school of several hundred pupils surely know of one of their classmates as having two moms or two dads. Can't avoid that conversation by straight-washing the population in movies.

 

[LittleBuford]

Of course they are. It's not about hiding everything forever, it's about introducing things at a pace that's appropriate for each family and each child. (Again, not "appropriate" like "gays are evil," "appropriate" like "what concepts can my child wrap her head around at what age?")

Families can make that call for themselves. But if you’re asking me to agree with you that Disney’s inclusion of such themes is somehow age-inappropriate, then of course we’re not going to see eye-to-eye. I think it’s a wonderful thing.

 

[CaptainMickey]

She's not always reliable, but Grace Randolph from Beyond the Trailer said she's heard that Wish will have "strong" LGBTQ representation.

However, she made this statement before the box office failure of Strange World. Ariana DeBose, who is voicing the main character, is "openly queer," so it could have been seen as an opportunity by Disney to have its first lesbian princess voiced by a queer actress. We shall see next November.

I'm no Nosteadamus, but if Disney does another children's movie with gay themes involved, I have a feeling it's going to disappoint at the box office and all the defenders are going to blame the bad marketing.

 

[MrPromey]

But that's sort of the point, right? We're not debating the content of the movie on its merits for people who have seen it, we're debating whether the content of the movie as perceived by the general public is directly responsible (at least in part) for people not seeing it.

Sort of.

But people also are debating the content. Did it matter to the plot or didn't it? How can it be glaring but also minor? Would it have been different if someone was a girl?

There's a lot of back-and-forth discussion going on and it's really hard to discuss that with people who haven't seen the movie without trying to remember the script to give line-by-line dissection of certain scenes.

It feels like watching a debate between a group of blind men trying to figure out what an elephant is by touch, alone.

Having seen the movie, it's frustrating because I think it would be easier to discuss some of what sound like contradictions if people actually knew a little more about what they're debating.

I mean, this is the internet so I don't know what I'm expecting but I'm still kind of over here shaking my head.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This not only applies to Queer people, but Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians.

Just getting them represented in all movies such that they are represented at the same proportion they appear in real life, which would be equitable, gets labeled as 'woke.'

You're lumping a lot of things together that have nothing to do with each other. Race and ethnicity are nothing like sexuality, which is nothing like gender identity.

Some people just get upset about diversity, that's true, and those people are probably just racists or sexists or whatever else.

Other people get upset when diversity comes at the expense of quality. You don't see too many people getting upset at the idea of Idris Elba as James Bond, because Idris Elba is awesome. You do see people upset about Moses Ingram in Obi-Wan because Moses Ingram was legitimately terrible in that role.

Children in a school of several hundred pupils surely know of one of their classmates as having two moms or two dads. Can't avoid that conversation by straight-washing the population in movies.

Like I said to Buford, it's not about avoiding the conversation. It's about having the conversation in a better context than a Disney movie. My 5 year old daughter had a soccer teammate with two dads, so she asked about it and I explained it to her 5-year-old level. My 8 year old daughter knows where babies come from, so she asked about it and I explained adoption. But I had that opportunity in the context of "real life." It wasn't sprung by a movie.

 

[DKampy]

Congratulations to your nephew! Coming out can be a difficult process, but also an exciting and uplifting one!

Yeah…and I see it is even tough in the community…He came out because he was dating a guy he was crazy about and wanted to bring him to family gatherings…they ended up breaking up because he was not comfortable being open in public and my nephew did not want to hide who he was… my nephew was heartbroken.

I am super proud of him though

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Families can make that call for themselves.

We agree!

But if you’re asking me to agree with you that Disney’s inclusion of such themes is somehow age-inappropriate, then of course we’re not going to see eye-to-eye. I think it’s a wonderful thing.

I didn't say it was age inappropriate, I said it was bad business. I'm trying to describe how many parents feel, not how many parents ought to feel. I made no claim regarding the merits of the movie, which I haven't seen.

Disney needs to make movies parents want to see, not movies Disney wishes parents wanted to see.

 

[MisterPenguin]

But I had that opportunity in the context of "real life." It wasn't sprung by a movie.

Ok... so what about Disney movies that have death of parents? Are you not as annoyed that Disney foisted upon you that kind of conversation with your children that didn't spring out of a natural real-life moment of a schoolmate having a parent die?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Ok... so what about Disney movies that have death of parents? Are you not as annoyed that Disney foisted upon you that kind of conversation with your children that didn't spring out of a natural real-life moment of a schoolmate having a parent die?

See below.

I didn't say it was age inappropriate, I said it was bad business. I'm trying to describe how many parents feel, not how many parents ought to feel. I made no claim regarding the merits of the movie, which I haven't seen.

Disney needs to make movies parents want to see, not movies Disney wishes parents wanted to see.

 

[LittleBuford]

I didn't say it was age inappropriate, I said it was bad business.

Perhaps it is at the current moment, but I believe time will show it to be the right approach, both from an ethical perspective and, in the long term, financially.

 

[erasure fan1]

You don't see too many people getting upset at the idea of Idris Elba as James Bond, because Idris Elba is awesome. You do see people upset about Moses Ingram in Obi-Wan because Moses Ingram was legitimately terrible in that role.

We saw the same thing with Rose Tico in ep8. No one cared she was Asian or female. She was just a terrible character.

 

[Jedijax719]

Two points.

1. Normalization is partially a reflection of what's considered acceptable and what's considered taboo, like you said, but it's also a reflection of what's  common. If all you've ever seen in your life are blue cars and all of a sudden you see a red car, the red car is going to stand out to you, even if you have zero moral or religious or cultural or any other sort of objection to red cars. There are neighborhoods in this country where half the people are LGBTQ, and there are neighborhoods where no one is. In those neighborhoods, and for kids who have lived in them their whole lives, it's something that will *stand out* even if it's not seen as *taboo.*

2. Oh the topic of why homosexuality is seen as more sexualized, I've been thinking about it and I have a theory. When parents introduce the idea of sex to children, it's not framed in terms of pleasure or even romance. It's framed in terms of procreation. "This part goes here because this from the man and that from the woman need to combine inside of the woman and that's where babies come from." It's all very clinical. When you're talking about a same-sex relationship, there's no procreative angle to approach it from so you lose the ability to frame things that way. When you take away the possibility of the creation of children, you're left with sex-for-sex's sake. Obviously there are a lot of straight people having sex-for-sex's sake too, but at least parents have an "out" in those situations

Great post!

Btw, we haven't seen Strange World yet. Do they show anyone actually "getting it on"? No? Then what is the big deal? Why are people in such a tizzy over it?

 

[ILoveWDW4ever]

“Used to” suggests a long time ago, yet most of Disney’s recent animated films have been pretty well received. Does the failure of Strange World undo the success of Encanto that easily for you?

Do you believe Encanto to be a rousing success?

How do we quantify well received?

I don’t think it’s very productive to hide our heads in the sand here.

If you think “representation” trumps story telling, that is fine for you to believe. I won’t argue with you.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Do you believe Encanto to be a rousing success?

How do we quantify well received?

I don’t think it’s very productive to hide our heads in the sand here.

If you think “representation” trumps story telling, that is fine for you to believe. I won’t argue with you.

The reality on the ground is, Disney has a reputation for being “woke” and every movie/series they put out recently, has reinforced that reputation.

You think that’s ultimately good for business?

Movies will continue to reflect the diversity of the world we live in. No one in their right mind is going to produce shows that exclusively feature white heterosexual characters in today's day and age.

 

[LittleBuford]

If you think “representation” trumps story telling, that is fine for you to believe. I won’t argue with you.

This is a false dichotomy to begin with. I’ve made clear multiple times that good storytelling is the most important factor. Representation is in no way a hindrance to it.

 

[MrPromey]

Thanks. I should have reported the comment when I first saw it.

I did and I should have stopped there but I couldn't help myself.