'Strange World' Disney's 2022 Animated Film

[Heppenheimer]

If we’re talking about animated feature films (and let’s include Pixar for the fun of it), the only recent offerings that have really done badly are Lightyear and Strange World. Some of you are making it seem as if we’ve been subjected to years and years of bad films, as if Coco, Encanto, and Luca never existed.

This is all just personal opinion, so I'll insert mine. I'm not sure if we have an official name for Disney Feature Animation's latest golden age, but I would say they were on a pretty strong run starting from Bolt in 2008 (or The Princess and the Frog in 2009, since I know Bolt is not universally loved) to Moana in 2016, with Encanto really being the only standout since then. None of the others were necessarily bad, they just weren't particularly memorable, with Ralph Breaks the Internet probably being the low point (and noting that I haven't seen Strange World yet).

For Pixar, I would say they were on a nearly flawless run from Toy Story in 1995 to Toy Story 3 in 2010, with the quality after that being all over the place, from the highs of Inside Out and Cocco to the lows of Cars 2 and Lightyear, and everything in between being kind of OK, but not great.

For lack of a better word, I'll use the word "woke", since I think what we all know what the word implies, even if we don't agree with its meaning or application, and I can't think of another that more succinctly refers to the phenomenon. I don't really blame the supposed "woke" tendencies of Disney nowadays for the decline in quality, since by my timeline, the drop occurred before these kinds of changes started to show up in the animated movies. But I do blame the studios for more recently seemingly putting greater emphasis on these kinds of "wokisms" than working out some of their increasingly obvious creative problems, and then using audience shaming as means to deflect criticism.

 

[Phroobar]

I see what you mean. However that is basically saying this is a natural phenomena that will simply correct itself.

It corrects itself because executives see they are making no money so they change course. Movies take a long time to produce. They can't change course in a month. After a while of making money they get complacent and start straying from the formula and stupid ideas start creeping back in. We are in the mist of stupid ideas.

 

[LittleBuford]

But I do blame the studios for more recently seemingly putting greater emphasis on these kinds of "wokisms" than working out some of their increasingly obvious creative problems, and then using audience shaming as means to deflect criticism.

This is the part I vehemently disagree with. To my mind, the dichotomy is entirely false. What you call “wokisms” are now standard in pretty much all mainstream entertainment, good or bad, Disney or otherwise. There is no correlation with quality.

As for “audience shaming”, the only people attributing the failure of Lightyear and Strange World to widespread homophobia (though they wouldn’t call it that) are those who think Disney is pursuing an “agenda”—see this thread for proof. Those of us who welcome the move towards greater inclusiveness are decidedly not reading anything ideological into the films’ poor performance.

 

[LittleBuford]

Hopefully once this goes to D+ this thread and be retired and locked.

My hope is that we actually start discussing the film itself.

 

[Heppenheimer]

This is the part I vehemently disagree with. To my mind, the dichotomy is entirely false. What you call “wokisms” are now standard in pretty much all mainstream entertainment, good or bad, Disney or otherwise. There is no correlation with quality.

As for “audience shaming”, the only people attributing the failure of Lightyear and Strange World to widespread homophobia are those who think Disney is pursuing an “agenda”—see this thread for proof. Those of us who welcome the move towards greater inclusiveness are decidedly not reading anything ideological into the films’ poor performance.

No, I've seen clear examples of attempted audience shaming as a means of deflecting any criticism. Movies that would have failed whether or not they were inclusive, due to poor story, poor characterization, poor direction, or any other sort of poor execution, but the excuse offered back by the studios was "Well, those audience members just hate seeing empowerd women/minorities/homosexuals/etc."

This is a two-way street. There will be some reactionaries that primarily use inclusivity as the focus of their criticism, just as there will be content creators who use inclusivity as shield against valid criticism. That Ghostbusters film from a few years ago is probably the primary example of the two ends of the spectrum shouting insults at each other over a movie that really just wasn't very good.

 

[LittleBuford]

but the excuse offered back by the studios was "Well, those audience members just hate seeing empowerd women/minorities/homosexuals/etc."

When has Disney ever said anything resembling this? Can you provide actual examples?

 

[Heppenheimer]

When has Disney ever said anything resembling this? Can you provide actual examples?

Marvel-associated personnel have made these statements in defense some of their lesser-assessed TV shows and movies. For a non-Disney example, Elizabeth Banks used sexism as the excuse on why her Charlie's Angels film was poorly received.

Neither Disney nor any other large corporation would ever put out an official statement like this. That's probably why every single DVD always contains the disclaimer about the "views expressed in the commentary are soley those of the individuals...". Even the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse DVDs have this disclaimer and I'm not even aware that these have a commentary track.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "but the excuse offered back by the studios was "Well, those audience members just hate seeing empowerd women/minorities/homosexuals/etc." because a studio itself, which only talks via ex cathedra communiques that have probably been filtered through an army of lawyers, wouldn't release such statements. But that hasn't stopped individual directors and actors from going on the offensive.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Even the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse DVDs have this disclaimer and I'm not even aware that these have a commentary track.

“What we were going for in this scene is really building up the sense of mystery around the Mystery Mousketool and how it would help Mickey.”

 

[CaptinEO]

If we’re talking about animated feature films (and let’s include Pixar for the fun of it), the only recent offerings that have really done badly are Lightyear and Strange World. Some of you are making it seem as if we’ve been subjected to years and years of bad films, as if Coco, Encanto, and Luca never existed.

Soul, Onward, Luca, Mulan Remake, Raya, and Turning Red all lost tons of money by being sent to Disney +. The company did not make money on these films. Encanto tanked in theaters but did become popular and hopefully has made its budget back in toy sales.

That is 6 films that lost money, and a lot of it. When Disney and Pixar finally went back to releasing films theatrically after two years of trying to subsidize Disney + they had two big bombs, Lightyear and Strangeworld. So now we are at 8 high budget films bombing.

Not saying the movies are good or bad, but none of them provided a profit or did good. It's a major embarassment.

Meanwhile pre 2019 Disney would make their films and license them to other streamers without having to pay for their own service to host it. D+ was a huge mistake financially and continues to be. Disney Animation and Pixar are in trouble. Marvel is still doing good theatrically and I think Avatar will also do fine. But Disney is not in a good place for either of their animated studios.

 

[Heppenheimer]

“What we were going for in this scene is really building up the sense of mystery around the Mystery Mousketool and how it would help Mickey.”

You can only imagine how many times a day I hear the term "Mouseketool". When I'm old and demented (or maybe just demented), I'll probably randomly shout out "Oh, Toodles..." and "We got ears, say cheers!" at inappropriate times.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Soul, Onward, Luca, Mulan Remake, Raya, and Turning Red all lost tons of money by being sent to Disney +.

Ummm... technically...

Mulan went to Disney+ Premier (and limited release globally). So, we don't know how many paid to watch it as PPV. Tho, it would be hard pressed to make the $250M it needed to break even in PPV money.

Raya also went to PPV the same day it was released (as limited release). Raya needed about $100M in home PPV to break even.

The other premier PPV films which are financial black boxes: Black Widow, Cruella, and Jungle Cruise.

 

[CaptinEO]

Ummm... technically...

Mulan went to Disney+ Premier (and limited release globally). So, we don't know how many paid to watch it as PPV. Tho, it would be hard pressed to make the $250M it needed to break even in PPV money.

Raya also went to PPV the same day it was released (as limited release). Raya needed about $100M in home PPV to break even.

The other premier PPV films which are financial black boxes: Black Widow, Cruella, and Jungle Cruise.

That is correct they were pay per view for a week or so before being on the services. I think it's unlikely this model made even close to recouping the budget.

PPV and all of Disney+ is a big black box of lost money.

And I'm not saying a film is good or bad for it's box office. I really enjoyed Turning Red, Encanto, and Onward. Onward just had the unfortunate timing of only being out a week before shutdowns happened.

But it seems Disney can't use their animated films to turn a profit currently be it Disney+, PPV, or Theatrical. Lets hope for a shakeup in the film department.

 

[LittleBuford]

Soul, Onward, Luca, Mulan Remake, Raya, and Turning Red all lost tons of money by being sent to Disney +. The company did not make money on these films. Encanto tanked in theaters but did become popular and hopefully has made its budget back in toy sales.

That is 6 films that lost money, and a lot of it. When Disney and Pixar finally went back to releasing films theaters after two years of trying to subsidize Disney + they had two big bombs, Lightyear and Strangeworld. So now we are at 8 high budget films bombing.

Not saying the movies are good or bad, but none of them provided a profit or did good. It's a major embarassment.

Meanwhile pre 2019 Disney would make their films and license them to other streamers without having to pay for their own service to host it. D+ was a huge mistake financially and continues to be. Disney Animation and Pixar are in trouble. Marvel is still doing good theatrically and I think Avatar will also do fine. But Disney is not in a good place for either of their animated studios.

But the claim I’m addressing is that Disney is now making bad movies that are incapable of turning a profit. The list you’ve provided includes films that were well received by audiences and critics but that, for a variety of reasons unrelated to quality, did not do as well as they otherwise might have.

 

[CaptinEO]

But the claim I’m addressing is that Disney is now making bad movies that are incapable of turning a profit. The list you’ve provided includes films that were well received by audiences and critics but that, for a variety of reasons unrelated to quality, did not do as well as they otherwise might have.

It's true they aren't making a profit. Good or bad is up to the viewer to judge. I don't have kids but the vibe I get from coworkers with kids is they can't trust Disney anymore. They don't know what topic might be in the next movie and whether they are ready to discuss it with their children.

 

[LittleBuford]

It's true they aren't making a profit. Good or bad is up to the viewer to judge. I don't have kids but the vibe I get from coworkers with kids is they can't trust Disney anymore. They don't know what topic might be in the next movie and whether they are ready to discuss it with their children.

Is the turning point Lightyear? Did any of the other films you listed include content that your coworkers would consider inappropriate for their children?

 

[LittleBuford]

It seems to me that some of the issues people have with Lightyear and Strange World (and possibly Turning Red also) are now being generalised and applied to films that were previously not viewed through the same lens. Whereas a year ago, we would have been talking about Luca and Encanto’s performance in terms of such factors as COVID, Disney+, and quality, now the “Disney is pushing an agenda and can’t be trusted to provide age-appropriate content” narrative is being backdated to encompass pretty much anything post-Moana. Part of me wishes that Lightyear and Strange World hadn’t included anything related to queerness so that we might have been spared this narrative.

 

[CaptinEO]

Is the turning point Lightyear? Did any of the other films you listed include content that your coworkers would consider inappropriate for their children?

Beauty and the Beast remake and Princess and the Frog was named by one of them. But those are many years apart.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I haven’t seen Strange World yet so will withhold comment, but I found Lightyear to be a poor to mediocre movie, and not for any reasons related to all this “agenda” nonsense. Here’s what I posted about it at the time:

I liked Lightyear but Strange World is better. The animation is amazing and it has multiple elaborate action sequences that are reminiscent of Indiana Jones films. I have no idea how they were able to create much of what is in this film.

 

[CaptinEO]

It seems to me that some of the issues people have with Lightyear and Strange World (and possibly Turning Red also) are now being generalised and applied to films that were previously not viewed through the same lens. Whereas a year ago, we would have been talking about Luca and Encanto’s performance in terms of such factors as COVID, Disney+, and quality, now the “Disney is pushing an agenda and can’t be trusted to provide age-appropriate content” narrative is being backdated to encompass pretty much anything post-Moana. Part of me wishes that Lightyear and Strange World hadn’t included anything related to queerness so that we might have been spared this narrative.

It does seem like people solely blame the woke moments for a movies failure. To me these films sound so bad that I don't think there was any salvaging them. The woke moments might have been a way to somehow save face for making a bad movie.

I know with Star Wars Lucasfilm called people who didn't like some of the shows and films racists/sexists which is crazy to me.

 

[LittleBuford]

I liked Lightyear but Strange World is better. The animation is amazing and it has multiple elaborate action sequences that are reminiscent of Indiana Jones films. I have no idea how they were able to create much of what is in this film.

I look forward to seeing it and sharing my thoughts here!