Rumor Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

[RSoxNo1]

there was a way to add audio from what I understand but it required more infrastructure than they wanted to do at the time.

Well they definitely skimped on the last major refurb and it really was a shame. I get what you're saying about MK's track layout being superior, but that's really the only advantage. When you factor in that the track quality is still inferior to Disneyland's glass smooth track, it's hard to make any argument for MK's version.

You and @marni1971 are right though. It SHOULD be the best one in the world.

 

[marni1971]

It was a capacity boost of what immediately preceded it, but perhaps @marni1971 can confirm whether or not it was a capacity boost over MKs peak capacity (which I assume included 20K and the Skyway).

I'm guessing ride capacity is now higher, but 20K closed in 1994 and I assume that prior to the opening of at least Mermaid, MKs attraction capacity peaked on 20K's last day of operation.

I don't have the figures to hand but I'd reckon TLM and the Dwarf Coaster have more combined capacity.

It'd be fun to compare 1995 capacity to today. Maybe I'll have to do it when I've nowt else to do.

 

[marni1971]

@Slowjack

 

[James Norrie]

You're not wrong, but you're also not 100% right either. More than any other park in central Florida, the Magic Kingdom benefits from the "rising tide raises all boats" approach. Most people that visit central Florida for the latest and greatest attraction, still also visit Magic Kingdom. Because it has been underbuilt since 20K Leagues Under the Sea closed, it is in need of a significant boost in attraction capacity.

What's weird is that it may even be in an operational best interest to have that additional capacity boost NOT be tied to an intellectual property (or at least not a recent one) so that it's not artificially inflated. I do think that thought process is extremely short sighted, but it may be something they're considering.

Remember, internally New Fantasyland was deemed as a capacity boost, but because of the popularity of Potter they tried to sell it as something more.

This! They essentially added a D Ticket and tried to force it into E Status by hyping it. Imagine if they had actually made it longer, with higher capacity, how much better the lines would be? No D should have 180 minute wait times almost3 years after it opened... Don't read this wrong, I love the ride and the theming, but an E it isn't.

Hmm. I may be missing the timeline here. As far as I understood it, the original Thunder Mesa concept, pre-MK-opening, included WRE (of course), plus something like BTM (though not called that) and an outdoor flume ride (though not Splash Mountain). That plan was nixed (or, let's say, continually postponed) by Walker. So you're saying that later, when BTM was approved as a different project, the project would have still included WRE as a second attraction, but not the other elements of Thunder Mesa? Or, by hybrid, do you mean BTM would have been longer and included WRE show elements?

When BTMM was green lit (See Tony Baxter v. Marc Davis Dispute - Davis felt betrayed, as Baxter was supposed to be modeling the ride Davis had conceptualized, which was far less than the BTMM as we know it), Davis wanted above anything to have WRE to be in the parks. He made a concession that WRE would be downsized fro his original plan. They promised for years to come that it would, but it has never come to fruition. It does still get pitched what I understand, but it's always a turn-down from up high

 

[njDizFan]

So, my question, and maybe some of you insiders might know more, is, what are they doing with all that loot they're making from their 3 year string of profitable 1+billion dollar making movies? Besides the money from the movies, the slew of marketing toys and crap that they churn out has to be making even more millions, right? Certainly building the DL and DHS Star Wars lands aren't eating all the money they're making, right? Shanghai can't be draining them that bad, eh?? Avatarland has already been allocated its funding for years, so that can't be the money eater, correct? Frozen ever after costs were redonkulous, but that's just a minor chunk of money.. Maybe they sunk all their money into RoL...

Seriously though, where's the money going? And before you anti-capitalist socialists start typing some crap about stockholders and wall street boogiemen, remember that they're really not cashing their stock in every month for income.

What massive R&D can Disney be doing to warrant the stagnation that we've seen in the parks?

Well I can tell you that in 2015 they spent 89% of their free cash flow on stock repurchases. This year they are spending about 8 billion on stock buybacks(74 billion shares at an average cost over $101) and only 2.3 billion in dividends back to investors. And around 4.8 in park investment and maintenance(including the cruise lines, and internationals). That's what they do with this profits.
Here's some facts from Fox News which is to show I am not just quoting some liberal media strain.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...llion-shares-in-2016-should-investors-be.html

 

[jt04]

You're not wrong, but you're also not 100% right either. More than any other park in central Florida, the Magic Kingdom benefits from the "rising tide raises all boats" approach. Most people that visit central Florida for the latest and greatest attraction, still also visit Magic Kingdom. Because it has been underbuilt since 20K Leagues Under the Sea closed, it is in need of a significant boost in attraction capacity.

What's weird is that it may even be in an operational best interest to have that additional capacity boost NOT be tied to an intellectual property (or at least not a recent one) so that it's not artificially inflated. I do think that thought process is extremely short sighted, but it may be something they're considering.

Remember, internally New Fantasyland was deemed as a capacity boost, but because of the popularity of Potter they tried to sell it as something more.

The FLE continues to draw crowds. Ironically, if they had built the first version it may not have been as necessary to put Frozen in WS. But since they have started down that road I hope they continue.

Just my opinion that adding a brand new E Ticket to the MK could cause overwhelming crowds. So I think they are better off adding a new E to Epcot first.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

to show I am not just quoting some liberal media strain.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...llion-shares-in-2016-should-investors-be.html

LOL

 

[twilight mitsuk]

I agree, so basically the concept of moving Space mountain would then include the astro orbiter...at which point you are just rebuilding tomorrowland at EPCOT... and truly the iconic architecture of Space Mountain is timeless and should always remain... as should the Astro Orbiter in some format... Let EPCOT have it's own identity...it does not need Magic Kingdom lands moved to it to make it relevant.
Though I will say building a monumental show building for IASW between Disney Traders and The Port Of Entry... with amphitheater seating integrated onto the backside facing the lake for night time specatcles... could actually work, and would leave a new space to build an epic NEW version of Peter Pan's Flight...expanded and double tracked... the longest and best version of the ride built to date....That would be great!

along with future world-tomorrow land hyperloop

 

[marni1971]

The FLE continues to draw crowds..

So does Liberty Square. And Adventureland. And DHS. And IOA. And...

 

[marni1971]

It was a capacity boost of what immediately preceded it, but perhaps @marni1971 can confirm whether or not it was a capacity boost over MKs peak capacity (which I assume included 20K and the Skyway)..

20K plus Skyway could potentially push 4900 people an hour through.

Mermaid is around 2100. I doubt the Dwarf Coaster is anywhere near 2800 an hour

 

[roj2323]

They've been trying to dock the boat permenantly for years. Thankfully so far they've been unsuccessful.

They would be better served by docking it at the Grand Floridian and using it for special events like wedding receptions and fireworks viewing out on the lake. This way it's still around making them money but isn't in the way of progress (increasing capacity) within the park.

 

[Mike S]

20K plus Skyway could potentially push 4900 people an hour through.

Mermaid is around 2100. I doubt the Dwarf Coaster is anywhere near 2800 an hour

Not to forget we also lost whatever capacity SWSA had for a M&G which are in themselves low capacity.

 

[marni1971]

They would be better served by docking it at the Grand Floridian and using it for special events like wedding receptions and fireworks viewing out on the lake. This way it's still around making them money but isn't in the way of progress (increasing capacity) within the park.

Perish the thought. No offence.

 

[marni1971]

Not to forget we also lost whatever capacity SWSA had for a M&G which are in themselves low capacity.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fle-capacity.830422/#post-4839973

 

[Rodan75]

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fle-capacity.830422/#post-4839973

Unfortunately that is still missing the ETWB and the Princess M&G, but the point is made. The capacity improvement was minimal for the work that was put in. MK does need some non-blockbuster but enjoyable new people eaters while also tackling anything that is high capacity but low attendance. Hopefully the SGE replacement will be the start of some attractive updates.

They need to figure out a way to kill our darlings without triggering fan revolts. Because at some point attractions like Tiki, Treehouse and CoP need updates that improve usage. (Note: these are examples of attractions that don't appear to fill their capacity on a regular basis, I realize that someone may have seen them full and I'm not advocating for their elimination)

 

[marni1971]

They need to figure out a way to kill our darlings without triggering fan revolts. Because at some point attractions like Tiki, Treehouse and CoP need updates that improve usage. (Note: these are examples of attractions that don't appear to fill their capacity on a regular basis, I realize that someone may have seen them full and I'm not advocating for their elimination)

Yep. There are proposals to do just that.

 

[ABQ]

As it was quite busy a couple week's back when I was at the MK and both Tiki and Country Bear shows I took in were full houses and the audiences in both applauded the shows. I know they were only full as the park was jammed, however, it does show that if people watch these shows, they enjoy them. I just can't understand why people only go out of their way to take them in when lines at other more popular attractions are horrid. Sure, I'm not going to watch either more than once a visit, but at least once is certain.

 

[Kman101]

Replacing Tiki Room, the Treehouse and Country Bears should be so incredibly low on the priority list. Expand first. I know proposals don't mean this is happening anytime in the near future but it's interesting what they view as a "problem". Not everything needs to be a ride or a thrill ride. But I also know they look at these attractions differently than I do.

 

[doctornick]

Replacing Tiki Room, the Treehouse and Country Bears should be so incredibly low on the priority list. Expand first. I know proposals don't mean this is happening anytime in the near future but it's interesting what they view as a "problem". Not everything needs to be a ride or a thrill ride. But I also know they look at these attractions differently than I do.

I took the comment from @marni1971 to mean that there are proposals to update the attractions, not necessary kill (replace) them. He's already said that CoP is going to get some love.

I also get the sense that Disney takes its guest satisfaction surveys very seriously (as much as we make fun of them) since there's been comments on certain attractions getting low ratings which is why they are being considered for replacements. SGE being one example and I think Energy was another. So, as long as the Tikis and Country Bears, etc. rate well with guests, they should be safe. Hopefully.

 

[Kman101]

I took the comment from @marni1971 to mean that there are proposals to update the attractions, not necessary kill (replace) them. He's already said that CoP is going to get some love.

I also get the sense that Disney takes its guest satisfaction surveys very seriously (as much as we make fun of them) since there's been comments on certain attractions getting low ratings which is why they are being considered for replacements. SGE being one example and I think Energy was another. So, as long as the Tikis and Country Bears, etc. rate well with guests, they should be safe. Hopefully.

That makes sense. I probably shouldn't have taken it as replacement proposals but instead something to drive guests to them. But we all saw how Under New Management worked for the Tiki Room. LOL