Rumor Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

[Goofyernmost]

Theme can enhance the experience and aid in the enjoyment of environment, at least for those who notice it.

I realize that... however, the theme never has connected with the attractions and only those that noticed it, noticed that. Everyone else went along fat, dumb and happy thinking that the theme fit. It was this simple, if the attraction was something that people liked... then it fit the theme. If not, sorry no fit. In the "lands" some fit better then others, but, it hasn't been an exact science for many years, if ever, especially in Tomorrowland.

Since no one seems to understand figures of speech anymore "fat, dumb and happy" is a figure of speech and not a statement that I think you are fat, dumb or happy.. I have no way of knowing that.

 

[GoofGoof]

I realize that... however, the theme never has connected with the attractions and only those that noticed it, noticed that. Everyone else went along fat, dumb and happy thinking that the theme fit. It was this simple, if the attraction was something that people liked... then it fit the theme. If not, sorry no fit. In the "lands" some fit better then others, but, it hasn't been an exact science for many years, if ever, especially in Tomorrowland.

Since no one seems to understand figures of speech anymore "fat, dumb and happy" is a figure of speech and not a statement that I think you are fat, dumb or happy.. I have no way of knowing that.

Tomorrowland is a great big mess these days from a theme prospective. Like you said, from the start it's always been more of a sci-fi or space travel related theme but not necessarily futuristic. For me where things went really wrong were when Monsters and Stitch were added and to a lesser extent Buzz (at least that one fits the concept of "space travel" to some extent). Of course the most out of place thing is the Speedway. I've never heard any backstory that could remotely explain how it fits into the land. I give CoP a pass to some extent because the ride itself is supposed to be a look at different points in time of how the future of technology was viewed. It's final scene is pretty dated at this point, but it sorta fits the Tomorrowland theme or maybe it's less out of place than some other things.

 

[marni1971]

Tomorrowland is a great big mess these days from a theme prospective. Like you said, from the start it's always been more of a sci-fi or space travel related theme but not necessarily futuristic. For me where things went really wrong were when Monsters and Stitch were added and to a lesser extent Buzz (at least that one fits the concept of "space travel" to some extent). Of course the most out of place thing is the Speedway. I've never heard any backstory that could remotely explain how it fits into the land. I give CoP a pass to some extent because the ride itself is supposed to be a look at different points in time of how the future of technology was viewed. It's final scene is pretty dated at this point, but it sorta fits the Tomorrowland theme or maybe it's less out of place than some other things.

The 1994 backstory tied most of the land together rather well. It convienetly brushed over the Speedway though.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Tomorrowland is a great big mess these days from a theme prospective. Like you said, from the start it's always been more of a sci-fi or space travel related theme but not necessarily futuristic. For me where things went really wrong were when Monsters and Stitch were added and to a lesser extent Buzz (at least that one fits the concept of "space travel" to some extent). Of course the most out of place thing is the Speedway. I've never heard any backstory that could remotely explain how it fits into the land. I give CoP a pass to some extent because the ride itself is supposed to be a look at different points in time of how the future of technology was viewed. It's final scene is pretty dated at this point, but it sorta fits the Tomorrowland theme or maybe it's less out of place than some other things.

The only real justification for the speedway is probably the most real of any of them. It is indeed the future of the kids that enjoy the ride. That is why it is on a rail and not just a free wheeling go cart. It is the only opportunity for small kids to pretend that they are in the future and are able to control their own ride within a safe range. It could also have been there mostly by accident and need for space and it kind of spilled into Tomorrowland but started in Fantasyland. In many ways it is physically closer to Fantasyland then Tomorrowland, in fact, it seems to me that most of it is in Fantasyland.

 

[FigmentJedi]

As others have said before, I think it's a fusion of unpleasant special effects (yes, other attractions have used smell effects, but that chili dog scent LINGERS like nothing else), its focus on Stitch before the events of the film made him more endearing, and generally unfunny jokes. And since it recycles elements specifically tailored for a horror experience (long periods of darkness, suffocating restraints) it doesn't appeal to many young kids either. Though I personally think there are worse attractions on a technical level (ex: The Nemo seacab overlay), Stitch's Great Escape is just... Uniquely icky.

To add to this, it's not even a good use of pre-film Stitch.

If you wanted to build an attraction around that Stitch, the best way to go would be Mr Toad's Wild Ride "IN SPACE!". Put us in the middle of the rampage shown in deleted scenes that preceded Stitch getting arrested (that the DTV sequel ended up ignoring), and throw in that whole list of hijinks Jumba rattled off including an in-vehicle air cannon effect to give us "Stealing everyone's left shoe"

 

[GoofGoof]

The 1994 backstory tied most of the land together rather well. It convienetly brushed over the Speedway though.

Was 1994 when they went with the whole spaceport theme for the land?

 

[marni1971]

The only real justification for the speedway is probably the most real of any of them. It is indeed the future of the kids that enjoy the ride. That is why it is on a rail and not just a free wheeling go cart. It is the only opportunity for small kids to pretend that they are in the future and are able to control their own ride within a safe range. It could also have been there mostly by accident and need for space and it kind of spilled into Tomorrowland but started in Fantasyland. In many ways it is physically closer to Fantasyland then Tomorrowland, in fact, it seems to me that most of it is in Fantasyland.

The WDW Speedway (originally the Grand Prix Raceway) was always in Tomorrowland. In 1971 the northern end ran virtually to 20K and was very open; the border to Fantasyland drew a line from the Teacups to the edge of 20K. The Skyway pylons and turn station were clearly visible along the whole eastern perimeter of the park for guests as was the Raceway. Steam trains passing in the background were a tolerated anomaly apparently.

Also in 1971 the Raceway was designed to resemble a modern, slightly futuristic take on Formula One Grand Prix racing. Back then a very modern, cutting edge sport, as opposed to the highway influenced Disneyland Autopia.

 

[marni1971]

Was 1994 when they went with the whole spaceport theme for the land?

Yes. It was mostly in place by the end of 1994.

 

[Kman101]

Buzz and Monsters should have gone into DHS. Then maybe we'd have a better representation of Toy Story with a better ride than a WII game. Monsters is a good show, but doesn't belong in Tomorrowland.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

It was discussed waaay back. Longer coaster plus Pixie Hollow where the tents still are.

Thank you! Thought I had missed something grand.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I ran them three times. Ballpark figure I agree. 20k could push 1900 running 3 full 3 packs but not sustain it all day. Also assume all 62 Skyway cars had four guests for the five minute journey.

My understanding was that 20K was half that. I'd also be surprised if both sides of Skyway brought in a total much greater than 3000.

Either way, I'm guessing their capacity is higher now but not by much.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Actually, it is logic, just not logic that we want to accept. It isn't our logic it is business and even show logic. The amount of money invested in its development and creation was enough to let us retire comfortably for a long time. It broke and very quickly they found out that people went for the ride not the damn Yeti. If that weren't true it would have closed a long time ago. The found out that they could spend another small fortune to bring it back to the original intent and not gain a damn thing other then the admiration of a few that think they should do it. New riders are not even aware of what was intended and most of the original riders don't really care, so, if I were a betting man, what we currently (very briefly) see is all we are ever going to get.

You can't excuse poor decisions as making good business sense when they don't. That's how you wind up spending $2 billion+ on infrastructure stuff that doesn't result in additional ticket sales.

The fact remains that Bob Iger and Co have not been good for the parks. It doesn't mean every decision was wrong, but if given the same budget and the same time frame, a monkey with a dart board could have made better business decisions and better park decisions than Iger and Co in the last 11 years.

 

[RSoxNo1]

IMO...

The FLE has been too successful and I think dispersing crowds throughout all the parks is a priority. So to draw guests from the MK to Epcot they choose Frozen. Which includes a M&G that is very FLE 1.0-ish.

I also think this it is a major factor in the Studios getting TSL rather than RSR as was rumored. It will have the effect of pulling younger families away from the MK.

The choice to go from FLE 1.0 to FLE 2.0 has had a major domino effect on the parks. Not to mention Disney management.

Personally though, I think the 'unintended consequences' are working out magnificently.

I can't respond to this with anything other than insult, but I wanted to acknowledge that I read it.

 

[Kman101]

If only the could move meeting Belle into Be Our Guest and build the attraction Tokyo's getting ....

 

[marni1971]

My understanding was that 20K was half that. I'd also be surprised if both sides of Skyway brought in a total much greater than 3000.

Either way, I'm guessing their capacity is higher now but not by much.

I'm confident to say my 20K figures are good. I did a lot of research when I covered that attraction and managed to view a lot of original documentation.

Both sides of the Skyway could bring in just under 3000 if the theoretical four seats were filled (theoretical hourly ride count being the operative phrase). Surprised me too.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You can't excuse poor decisions as making good business sense when they don't. That's how you wind up spending $2 billion+ on infrastructure stuff that doesn't result in additional ticket sales.

The fact remains that Bob Iger and Co have not been good for the parks. It doesn't mean every decision was wrong, but if given the same budget and the same time frame, a monkey with a dart board could have made better business decisions and better park decisions than Iger and Co in the last 11 years.

There is reason to agree with one exception. The infrastructure was needed. It was light years behind the times and even though, and we don't really know this for sure, since theme park business is contingent on so many uncontrollable things, that it didn't help to improve income. It may have been the sales approach for the BOD, but, even the best of imaginations can't see exactly how it was going to turn into more money. Novelty perhaps? I don't care if they tracked me all day and found a way to push an item based on what they evaluated to be my interests. It doesn't sell me a thing until I want to buy it. Do we know for sure if all the upcharge things might have been made easier because of it or not? If it did, then there is an additional source of income that no one of us has even connected to the system, but, I'll bet it is instrumental in the management of those programs. In short we do not know exactly what they are getting out of it, but, even, if it wasn't exactly what they had in mind, they got a new expanded system that was needed. Businesses do not run on attractions alone. To be able to keep all that upcharge along with regular information on a single wrist band, has to be a plus not only in efficiency, but, in novelty and control. Even the ending cost was and has been pure speculation. No one person, even within the Disney Company (other then Iger and he's not talking) has complete access to all cost numbers, so accuracy in reporting that is iffy at best.

I will agree that until very recently Iger and Co. have done very little to help the domestic parks, but, it would be easy to see where the investments have been going. Not good for our local parks, but, overall company investment has been defaulted to the overseas investments as far as we can tell with the number one Disney park holding it's own until recently. Now the needed to concentrate on this side of the ponds. Took a little long to figure out that they needed to do something, but, they finally did. Now we see how or if they continue steady improvements or go back to the old ways. Forget about the money spent on that infrastructure, it was needed and not anyplace within the budgets of P&R other then overhead with possible returns. It would not have been spent on anything else. It is usually a completely different line item within the company wide budget.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The only real justification for the speedway is probably the most real of any of them. It is indeed the future of the kids that enjoy the ride. That is why it is on a rail and not just a free wheeling go cart. It is the only opportunity for small kids to pretend that they are in the future and are able to control their own ride within a safe range.

The interesting thing is that Speedway is no longer their future. Their future is self-driving cars. Their future is perhaps not even owning a car but joining a service where a fleet of self-driving cars act as an automated Uber with car service on demand. Their future has nothing to do with gas-powered vehicles. We'll be able to move Speedway to Frontierland soon.

 

[DznyRktekt]

There is reason to agree with one exception. The infrastructure was needed. It was light years behind the times and even though, and we don't really know this for sure, since theme park business is contingent on so many uncontrollable things, that it didn't help to improve income. It may have been the sales approach for the BOD, but, even the best of imaginations can't see exactly how it was going to turn into more money. Novelty perhaps? I don't care if they tracked me all day and found a way to push an item based on what they evaluated to be my interests. It doesn't sell me a thing until I want to buy it. Do we know for sure if all the upcharge things might have been made easier because of it or not? If it did, then there is an additional source of income that no one of us has even connected to the system, but, I'll bet it is instrumental in the management of those programs. In short we do not know exactly what they are getting out of it, but, even, if it wasn't exactly what they had in mind, they got a new expanded system that was needed. Businesses do not run on attractions alone. To be able to keep all that upcharge along with regular information on a single wrist band, has to be a plus not only in efficiency, but, in novelty and control. Even the ending cost was and has been pure speculation. No one person, even within the Disney Company (other then Iger and he's not talking) has complete access to all cost numbers, so accuracy in reporting that is iffy at best.

I will agree that until very recently Iger and Co. have done very little to help the domestic parks, but, it would be easy to see where the investments have been going. Not good for our local parks, but, overall company investment has been defaulted to the overseas investments as far as we can tell with the number one Disney park holding it's own until recently. Now the needed to concentrate on this side of the ponds. Took a little long to figure out that they needed to do something, but, they finally did. Now we see how or if they continue steady improvements or go back to the old ways. Forget about the money spent on that infrastructure, it was needed and not anyplace within the budgets of P&R other then overhead with possible returns. It would not have been spent on anything else. It is usually a completely different line item within the company wide budget.

Monorail and overall resort transportation needed the bulk of infrastructure investment. MM+ could have been a fraction of what it has become. If that were the case I still just might be able to spontaneously get a seat at a table service restaurant while on property.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The interesting thing is that Speedway is no longer their future. Their future is self-driving cars. Their future is perhaps not even owning a car but joining a service where a fleet of self-driving cars act as an automated Uber with car service on demand. Their future has nothing to do with gas-powered vehicles. We'll be able to move Speedway to Frontierland soon.

Na, that's Sci Fi as well. There has been that ability for ages now, but, many people, myself included want to have control and not rely on a machine. That is a couple of generations away at best. It is inviting an actual computer CRASH. That same line was used in the 60's. We were almost out of oil and gasoline engines were a thing of the past, yet 50 years later, whats under your hood. The cost of it alone will give it another 50 years before it happens.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Monorail and overall resort transportation needed the bulk of infrastructure investment. MM+ could have been a fraction of what it has become. If that were the case I still just might be able to spontaneously get a seat at a table service restaurant while on property.

My point was that we don't even know what it has become. They don't tell anyone how much they spend on anything exactly, especially something like that. We just don't know, but, we are great at second guessing without any real knowledge whatsoever. Got any idea how much they have spent on resort transportation? No, we don't. I do know that they have a huge new fleet of buses at about 200K each. (discount rate) They are upgrading or attempting to upgrade the monorail system that has limited impact on the overall situation and who knows how much they have spent of the floating fleet, new roads, improved traffic flows and parking. All part of the resort transportation. Again we are all good at speaking out about things that we know nothing about. BTW, please explain what relationship that MM+ costs affects you being able to get a seat at a table service restaurant? That one has me stumped.