Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
Speaking of Stitch, I returned from Houston yesterday, and the ANA crew in the Houston Airport all had Stitch pins.
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Rumor Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath
- Thread starter Magic Feather
- Start date
solidyne
Well-Known Member
@MisterPenguin is correct. He's a real trooper, too, for repeatedly schooling people on this every time it comes up. Folks, you can put 10,000 people in a hundred huge boats in a show building if you want to, but the rate of throughput depends on other factors. Surely someone has a website explaining this with cool, flashy graphics.Sue that school for not providing you with a proper mathematical education!!
Extra boats increase the rate of PPH only if it wasn't already launching at maximum rate of launch that the ride can handle or that dispatch can get out. If the ride can handle a higher dispatch, the launch site might not be able to actually get them launched at such a high rated. This is when you add a second launch site.
Boats stuck in the queue to get back to launch after the ride is an indication that you got extra boats and you've taken a few dozen people off the streets. It's not a sign you're at maximum launch. And even if you were, more boats wouldn't increase launch rate. If you're already at maximum, then maximum is maximum.
V_L_Raptor
Well-Known Member
Adding those boats would increase the instantaneous capacity -- at any given time, if they're all filled, that's 200 additional people who aren't in the queue or on the street -- even if those boats are parked at unload. The per-hour rate would still not change, because the boats are still loading/unloading at their (ideally) peak efficiency, given prevailing conditions.
solidyne
Well-Known Member
True. Number of people on a ride at a given time is different from number of people through a ride in a given time frame.
By the way, is there some sort of "people-eating quotient" that would be the hourly throughput multiplied by the length of the ride? This would be a good way to assess the overall eating ability of a ride. (What good is dispatching 2000 people an hour if the experience is only 60 seconds long?) Surely there is already a term for this measure. If so, which attraction would rank highest this way? GMR, Energy? (ha)
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Maybe this will help!
Situation 1: Short Ride
Assumptions:
1) Na'vi River Journey takes 45 seconds to complete its circuit
2) Each Boat can hold 6 people
3) It takes 15 seconds for 6 people to unload and 6 new people to load into the boat
Scenario 1: Na'vi River Journey has one boat
-With only one boat six new people start their journey every minute (45 seconds of ride, 15 seconds to change riders)
-Theoretical hourly capacity = 6 people per minute = 360 people per hour can start their ride
Scenario 2: Na'vi River Journey has four boats
- The four boats now get spaced evenly across the ride spaced out every 15 seconds. One boat is leaving the load, one boat is 15 seconds in, one boat is 30 seconds in, and one boat is 45 seconds in, entering the loading area.
-Theoretical hourly capacity = 6 people per 15 seconds = 1440 people per hour can start their ride
Scenario 3: Na'vi River Journey has five boats
-The four boats are now spaced evenly and the last two boats are both stuck at the end. One boat is leaving the load, one boat 15 seconds in, one boat is 30 seconds in, two boats 45 seconds in with one boat entering the loading area.
- Theoretical hourly capacity = 6 people per 15 seconds = 1440 people per hour
Situation 1 has now maxed out its Theoretical Hourly Capacity at 1440 people no matter how many boats we throw at it.
Situation 2: Longer Ride length!
Assumptions:
1) Super Na'vi River Journey takes 1 minute and 45 seconds to complete its circuit
2) Each Boat can hold 6 people
3) It takes 15 seconds for 6 people to unload and 6 new people to load into the boat
Scenario 1: Super Na'vi River Journey has one boat
-With only one boat 6 new people start their journey every 2 minute (1:45 of ride, 15 seconds to change riders)
-Theoretical hourly capacity = 6 people per 2 minutes = 180 people per hour can start their ride
Scenario 2: Super Na'vi River Journey has eight boats
- The eight boats now get spaced evenly across the ride spaced out every 15 seconds. One boat is leaving the load, one boat is 15 seconds in, one boat is 30, 45, 60, 1:15, 1:30, and one boat is at 1:45, entering the load .
-Theoretical hourly capacity = 6 people per 15 seconds = 1440 people per hour can start their ride
Scenario 3: Na'vi River Journey has nine boats
-The eight boats are now spaced and the last 2 boats are both stuck at the end. 1 boat is leaving the load, 1 boat is 15 seconds in, 1 boat is 30, 45, 60, 1:15, 1:30, and 2 boats at 1:45 with 1 entering the load .
- Theoretical hourly capacity = 6 people per 15 seconds = 1440 people per hour
Situation 2 has now maxed out its Theoretical Hourly Capacity at 1440 people no matter how many boats we throw at it.
Even with Super Na'vi River Journey doubling the length of Na'vi River Journey, both rides top out at 1440 people per hour as long as they have enough boats to utilize their length (4 and 8 respectively).
Relating this to Stitch (because we are in the Stitch thread).
Stitch's two theaters do double the Theoretical Hourly Capacity over one theater because a new theater starts the show twice as often. Instead of 160 people starting a show every 20 minutes for a Theoretical Hourly Capacity of 800 people per hour, SGE starts a show every 10 minutes for a Theoretical Hourly Capacity of 1600 people. This would be the same as either doubling the boat size to twelve people
OR dispatching a boat every 7.5 seconds AND doubling the amount of boats for Na'vi River Journey or Super Na'vi River Journey.
Hope that helps!
V_L_Raptor
Well-Known Member
It would probably be hourly capacity per meter, or something. (I'm just spitballing that off the top of my head.)
Predictably, the best performing rides by this measure are going to be the peoplemovers/omnimovers. GMR and Energy were pretty great for this, too, but that was from the large number of people that could board at a given time. Continuous load and unload with the trains, though, are pretty hard to beat.
Also predictably, though in a far more cynical sense, the rides that do best with this haven't lasted long, possibly in part as a result of managerial innumeracy regarding capacity and load rates. See also: Seacabs, Horizons, World of Motion...
VaderTron
Well-Known Member
Side Note: If anyone ever wondered why they didn't make the Na'vi River Journey longer than it is, THIS IS WHY. Disney no longer does what Walt would have done, which is give the guest the best experience they could hope for. The fact that increasing the length of the ride would in NO WAY increase the number of guests the ride could put through per hour, plus the fact that Disney wants you off that ride and in the gift shop ASAP to give them more money...we have the ride length we got. Gone are the days that Disney would invest as much money as possible to give you the most amazing ride imaginable.
Perduevian, nice explaination.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
*Purduevian (Boiler Up!)
Thanks, I'm usually a lurker, but I've seen confusion about ride length vs people per hour so many times I wanted an example to refer back to the next time it comes up.
Also side note there are tricks rides use to lower the dispatch time
-Duel loading (pirates, splash, Test Track, Pooh, Small World, Kilimanjaro, Dinosaur, and BTMRR)
-Unload/Load at different places (Pooh, Omnivores, Test Track , Frozen, Rock n' Rollercoaster, Everest)
-2(or more) complete rides (Space Mountain, Dumbo, Soarin, Toy Story Mania, Star Tours, Tower of Terror, Flight of Passage, Primeval Whirl)
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Castle Cake Apologist
Well-Known Member
He at least goes about explaining it tactfully. There's really no need to be so condescending.
EricsBiscuit
Well-Known Member
No, turns too tight and maybe too shallow (just look down next time, it's very shallow! Maybe foot and a half ish). Also the pirates boats and the IASW boats are hideous compared to the charming and well themed NRJ ones.
solidyne
Well-Known Member
Oops, yes, in retrospect, I see how the "flashy graphics" part did sound condescending, as if I was suggesting the argument needs to be dumbed down in some way. However, that's not what I meant. I truly would like to see such a site for myself! I was thinking there must be some convenient site that can be referred to so that this argument doesn't have to appear repeatedly on so many threads. Honest. If you're talking about the "folks" part, yeah that was kinda smug. Sorry for that.
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Well then, just line the waterway with boats and let the people walk through the attraction. Launch and unload rate becomes moot.Sue that school for not providing you with a proper mathematical education!!
Extra boats increase the rate of PPH only if it wasn't already launching at maximum rate of launch that the ride can handle or that dispatch can get out. If the ride can handle a higher dispatch, the launch site might not be able to actually get them launched at such a high rated. This is when you add a second launch site.
Boats stuck in the queue to get back to launch after the ride is an indication that you got extra boats and you've taken a few dozen people off the streets. It's not a sign you're at maximum launch. And even if you were, more boats wouldn't increase launch rate. If you're already at maximum, then maximum is maximum.
Besides, I believe in the "new math," where anything is possible if I want it to be.
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Well, it's not my fault WDW can't or won't maximize efficiency of the load/unload process. Clearly, that's why WDW put double loading stations on PotC and BTMRR...and yet often run only one side.
I still say load up the track with boats and fill 'em to the brim! It beats standing in line for another ride for 4 hours or so...
That's if they can keep them running continuously.
SuperStretccch
Well-Known Member
Not sure about PotC, but every time I've been on BTM, both sides were in use. Am I lucky or something?
geekza
Well-Known Member
Math hard, so my question may sound stupid.
The boats in NRJ seem pretty small, but I understand that it isn't feasible to use boats the size of IASW or Pirates. With that said, couldn't they lengthen the boats just long enough to fit two more people in them and make at least a decent improvement on throughput? I understand that with the ride being kind of underwhelming, that might not be worth the investment.
The boats in NRJ seem pretty small, but I understand that it isn't feasible to use boats the size of IASW or Pirates. With that said, couldn't they lengthen the boats just long enough to fit two more people in them and make at least a decent improvement on throughput? I understand that with the ride being kind of underwhelming, that might not be worth the investment.
disneygeek90
Well-Known Member
BTM is almost always running both sides, idk what OP is talking about.
I'm talking about the times I've waited in line, got to the top of the queue where the two sides split, and there's a trash can firmly planted in my way keeping me from going down the other side.
disneygeek90
Well-Known Member
I feel like I could count the times I've seen that on one hand over the past 12 years.