Rumor Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

[cheezbat]

Personally I'd prefer a 5th and 6th theater if I had to choose between a longer NRJ or more capacity on FoP. Having said that, both rides were underbuilt.

Nah.
Just cut down on the ridiculous length of the preshows and get all four theaters running properly. Too much down time this first year of operation...that's what really causes the waits. I've heard a number of times that only half the theaters could be running some days because of down time.
If the River Journey was a bigger better ride, it honestly could absorb more capacity.

If it were up to me though, I'd just add another new ride.

 

[Timothy_Q]

If the River Journey was a bigger better ride, it honestly could absorb more capacity.

Making NRJ a longer ride wouldn't change it's capacity.

Unless the boats were bigger

 

[MisterPenguin]

Nah.
Just cut down on the ridiculous length of the preshows and get all four theaters running properly. Too much down time this first year of operation...that's what really causes the waits. I've heard a number of times that only half the theaters could be running some days because of down time.
If the River Journey was a bigger better ride, it honestly could absorb more capacity.

If it were up to me though, I'd just add another new ride.

Preshows have no effect on FoP's capacity. They hold you as long and as little as they need to while the group ahead of you is riding. When they're done, you're preshow is done, too and you take their place.

 

[cheezbat]

Preshows have no effect on FoP's capacity. They hold you as long and as little as they need to while the group ahead of you is riding. When they're done, you're preshow is done, too and you take their place.

Wasn't the case on my last ride. Preshows took forever, and by the time I got to the ride, there weren't any guests exiting like on previous rides...then again, maybe that was because the ride or that particular theater was down or something...

 

[Timothy_Q]

Wasn't the case on my last ride. Preshows took forever, and by the time I got to the ride, there weren't any guests exiting like on previous rides...then again, maybe that was because the ride or that particular theater was down or something...

When preshow takes forever on FoP, they’re intentionally keeping you in there cause the ride, for whatever reason, isn’t ready for the next group of guests yet.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Likely caused by someone with mobility issues exiting. By the time they're the last one out, the CM lets in the next group.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Making NRJ a longer ride wouldn't change it's capacity.

Unless the boats were bigger

Wouldn't making the flume longer allow more boats full of people to be moving through the attraction at any given time, thereby increasing the hourly capacity?

If you had two roller coasters with equal capacity on the trains, but one coaster had a longer track which allowed for an extra train on the track, I would assume that the one with the extra train would have a higher hourly capacity.

Am I wrong?

 

[Timothy_Q]

Wouldn't making the flume longer allow more boats full of people to be moving through the attraction at any given time, thereby increasing the capacity?

If you had two roller coasters with equal capacity on the trains, but one coaster had a longer track which allowed for an extra train on the track, I would assume that the one with the extra train would have higher capacity.

Am I wrong?

There would be more people inside the ride at any given moment, but the capacity would stay the same.

What dictates the capacity is how many people are dispatched from the station, and how often.

What happens after the dispatch doesn’t interfere in the capacity.

Take for example PotC.
Disneyland’s version is twice as long as MK’s, but they both have the same capacity.

 

[larryz]

Making NRJ a longer ride wouldn't change it's capacity.

Unless the boats were bigger

If the boat ride was longer, you could run more boats.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

There would be more people inside the ride at any given moment, but the capacity would stay the same.

What dictates the capacity is how many people are dispatched from the station, and how often.

What happens after the dispatch doesn’t interfere in the capacity.

Take for example PotC.
Disneyland’s version is twice as long as MK’s, but they both have the same capacity.

Then what is the reasoning behind amusement parks adding more trains to coasters on busy days? It just seems like some capacity would be added somewhere by having more ride vehicles operating? I don't doubt what you're saying, just genuinely curious. Maybe parks dispatch faster when they have more vehicles to run through.

I started to second guess myself when I saw that @MisterPenguin had liked your post.

 

[Jones14]

What it does do, though, is to help delay the morning rush at every other attraction.

For example, if the first ride of your day is Na’Vi, and you get on right at 9:00 AM, you can be in line for Flight of Passage at 9:05, which will have an hour’s worth of people in it by that point. If Na’Vi were an eight minute ride, it would take you until 9:10 to get to the FoP line (by now 75 minutes), and you may choose to cut your losses and head to Everest, which is still operating with negative operational impact.

This lowers Flight of Passage’s wait time for a bit longer and distributes the weight of the park’s capacity more evenly from the start. This gives people in standby a better shot at shorter waits for at least the first attraction they ride, no matter what time they arrive.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Regarding Ride Length v. Capacity (PPH)

Let's say you had dark boat ride that was a canoe with just one person in it. And let's say the ride is one minute long. Now, if you had just one canoe, your PPH would be one person per minute, or 60 PPH. (We'll ignore reboarding time for this mind experiment.)

Now let's say you had two canoes. That would be 2 people per minute, or 120 PPH. So, more boats is a higher capacity, right? Yes... to a point.

So, let's put in 120 boats!!! Problem with that is that you would have a boat launching every half second. To do that you'd probably have to have the boats be only 3 feet long and chain them together as a boat omnimover. So, then what about 240 boats!! At some point, you hit a capacity of how many 'vehicles' that can be sent out. With a boat ride, you'd like there to be space between the boats, so, really, you'd want to launch one every ten seconds.

So, more vehicles increase capacity... unless you're already at capacity.

And this applies to increasing the length of the ride. If your boat ride's length was doubled to two minutes long, you'd still only launch a boat once every 10 seconds. If your launch is at capacity, you can't increase rate of launch by definition.

 

[mikejs78]

Regarding Ride Length v. Capacity (PPH)

Let's say you had dark boat ride that was a canoe with just one person in it. And let's say the ride is one minute long. Now, if you had just one canoe, your PPH would be one person per minute, or 60 PPH. (We'll ignore reboarding time for this mind experiment.)

Now let's say you had two canoes. That would be 2 people per minute, or 120 PPH. So, more boats is a higher capacity, right? Yes... to a point.

So, let's put in 120 boats!!! Problem with that is that you would have a boat launching every half second. To do that you'd probably have to have the boats be only 3 feet long and chain them together as a boat omnimover. So, then what about 240 boats!! At some point, you hit a capacity of how many 'vehicles' that can be sent out. With a boat ride, you'd like there to be space between the boats, so, really, you'd want to launch one every ten seconds.

So, more vehicles increase capacity... unless you're already at capacity.

And this applies to increasing the length of the ride. If your boat ride's length was doubled to two minutes long, you'd still only launch a boat once every 10 seconds. If your launch is at capacity, you can't increase rate of launch by definition.

All this being true, what if you increased the length of the ride, thus allowing more boats at once, *and* you created a second launch, thus allowing you to dispatch more often?

 

[MisterPenguin]

All this being true, what if you increased the length of the ride, thus allowing more boats at once, *and* you created a second launch, thus allowing you to dispatch more often?

More boats out at once on a longer ride does take people off the streets and plop them on the ride, but, that's only a few dozen people at one time on the ride than on the streets.

For launch capacity there's two caps: how much you can physically send out and how much the ride can take. If the ride can handle boats separated 10 seconds apart because you don't want the boats on top of eachother and that's what you're currently doing, or, there's a a coaster that has three blocks and you already are running with three trains out, then increasing your ability to launch doesn't do any good if the ride's capability of handling vehicles is already maxed out.

IOW, you can add twenty launch pads, but that's overkill if you're sending boats out once every 10 seconds. Most of the pads will be sitting there doing nothing waiting their turn to go. You can't put twenty out at once no matter how much you lengthen the course.

Rather than adding another launch, you need to add another track, which is what they did for Soarin' and TSM to increase PPH capacity.

 

[Timothy_Q]

If the boat ride was longer, you could run more boats.

Like I said, the only thing that matters is how often you dispatch the boats. And how big the boats are.

A longer flume would increase the number of boats total, but the dispatch would stay the same

 

[Timothy_Q]

Then what is the reasoning behind amusement parks adding more trains to coasters on busy days? It just seems like some capacity would be added somewhere by having more ride vehicles operating? I don't doubt what you're saying, just genuinely curious. Maybe parks dispatch faster when they have more vehicles to run through.

I started to second guess myself when I saw that @MisterPenguin had liked your post.

If a coaster can have let’s say 4 trains running at once, then the ride’s full capacity is those 4 trains.

But they can choose to run less trains at once, thus not using the ride’s full capacity.

When a boat ride like pirates already has backed up boats before the unload, the it’s already running at full capacity (Considering human speed to board and unboard), and adding more boats would just create a bigger traffic jam in the ride (like it often happens)

 

[Princess Leia]

I was invested in this discussion until I realized we're in the Stitch thread, and now I'm very confused about how we all got to this point.

 

[larryz]

Like I said, the only thing that matters is how often you dispatch the boats. And how big the boats are.

A longer flume would increase the number of boats total, but the dispatch would stay the same

Well, you're assuming their dispatch is currently working at maximum efficiency. I go with the school that says if your current number of boats can handle 1000 people per hour, and you add enough boats to get 200 more people on, then your hourly rate goes up to 1200 people per hour (even if they have to sit in a line at unload for 15 minutes waiting for the inefficient crew at the unload point -- I'm looking at you, IASW...).

 

[larryz]

I was invested in this discussion until I realized we're in the Stitch thread, and now I'm very confused about how we all got to this point.

New Stitch Boat Ride, confirmed!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Well, you're assuming their dispatch is currently working at maximum efficiency. I go with the school that says if your current number of boats can handle 1000 people per hour, and you add enough boats to get 200 more people on, then your hourly rate goes up to 1200 people per hour (even if they have to sit in a line at unload for 15 minutes waiting for the inefficient crew at the unload point -- I'm looking at you, IASW...).

Sue that school for not providing you with a proper mathematical education!!



Extra boats increase the rate of PPH only if it wasn't already launching at maximum rate of launch that the ride can handle or that dispatch can get out. If the ride can handle a higher dispatch, the launch site might not be able to actually get them launched at such a high rated. This is when you add a second launch site.

Boats stuck in the queue to get back to launch after the ride is an indication that you got extra boats and you've taken a few dozen people off the streets. It's not a sign you're at maximum launch. And even if you were, more boats wouldn't increase launch rate. If you're already at maximum, then maximum is maximum.