MK Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
Then versus now.

Of course, then was in response to the company nearly being bought up and sold piecemeal- with their stock tanking, their market cap in shambles and their theme parks division languishing. I'm glad Eisner and Wells got them back on solid footing with that sort of big thinking, though as you've pointed out the majority of that big thinking never came to fruition. Concepts are great and all, but even during the Disney Decade we didn't see most of that stuff you mentioned which was part of this supposed paradigm shift for the Disney Parks.

Right now, the Company and the Parks & Resorts Division are performing well (aside from BSPN and the stock buybacks, but that's just dumb market voodoo to try and placate shareholders and their quarterly bloodlust). The comany's reach and reputation are 100% better than they were during the late 80's and early 90's despite the doom and gloomers here who are so jaded and out of touch that they can't see beyond their own armchair management/imagineering.

Luvthegoof as usual provides a bit of much needed clarity and reality. Kudos...
 

LuvtheGoof

DVC Guru
Premium Member
Are you just conveniently leaving out things like Tower of Terror and New Tomorrowland to help your case? What about Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach?
I was relying to the "lofty ideals and motives" b.s. And it is just that. Yes they built a lot during that time, but lofty ideals and motives had nothing to do with it whatsoever.

ETA: If you want a good look at it, read Marty Sklar's book - Dream It! Dot It! He writes a lot about what could have been, and never was during that time.
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
Are you just conveniently leaving out things like Tower of Terror and New Tomorrowland to help your case? What about Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach?

No, he's stating that despite the grand thinking and busted budgets of the Disney Decade, it resulted in a massive drain on the Parks & Resorts and as a result, they produced some of the worst stuff Disney's seen. He's showing the poor examples to counter the good examples (most of which weren't even built but are still pointed to as some visionary thinking).
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
Yeah, there's a balance to be struck when discussing past vs. present.

There are times when it is absolutely appropriate to point out a divergence from past practices, or even what is often called a "rupture" in historical terms, and to compare and contrast how these practices have impacted outcomes. For example, when discussing the development of EPCOT Center for 1982 it's fair to point out how it was a park with a very unique and specialized focus, and one of the first projects that ever involved completely new ideas at every turn: new characters, settings, music, etc. all designed specifically for EPCOT. It's fair to compare and contrast that with current practices, where things have homogenized somewhat across the parks, and what that has done to the overall status and artistic/technological/financial impact of the parks. If a person can research and find a true rupture point that brought about these changes (in this case, things like the folding of WED into the Disney corporate umbrella and changing it to WDI, among other factors), then an argument concerning the superiority of one era or set of practices to the other can be completely warranted.

When that point can't be located, however, too often we, as human beings and not just as Disney theme park fans, fall into the traps of nostalgia. I think of this when people get older and try to say things like "Man, children's TV/cartoons are so awful these days, remember how great they were when WE were young?"...so often, that's either pure nostalgia talking, or it's not taking into account changes in the environment in which something is produced (e.g. older children's shows were often produced for local broadcast, vs. today's more ubiquitous cable and online distribution formats) that made changes necessary in the first place. I mean, I can look to some children's films of the 80s or TV shows in the 90s and make my case for why what I grew up with has superior aspects to it, but if I sit here and pretend there are no good youth-oriented shows/films today then I'm just deluding myself. I can argue changes in styles, and I can argue within the context of another rupture, but just a blanket "it's new, so it stinks" gets me nowhere (I exaggerate for effect).
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Yup, the Disney decade that gave us
All Star Sports
All Star Movies
All Star Music
Port Orleans Riverside
Port Orleans French Quarter
Coronado Springs
Beach Club
Yacht Club
Wilderness Lodge
Boardwalk Inn

MGM Studios opened with only a few attractions, and those were mostly done on the cheap. AK also opened with only a few attractions, but at least they were better.

Nostalgia is a dirty liar that insists things were better than they seemed.
The Disney Decade, for the most part, wasn't implemented. It was more than the 1990s. It was a framework for expansion and a set of ideals that truly were impressive. It just never happened.

Close review of the plans finds that nearly every project failed to materialize. Lots of projects were built, but they weren't nearly as ambitious or as wide ranging in scope.

The projects that did make it out of this time with some of their DNA intact are regarded as some of the greatest theme parks in the world. Disney's Animal Kingdom and Tokyo Disney Sea. They act as the highest standard of what is possible when storytelling is put first.

The hotel expansions you mentioned above avoided the knife and made it out of development. They're also incredibly rich and distinctive too. They have story and depth. While current management is removing some of that distinctiveness, they are meaningful and purposeful Resorts transporting you to different times and places.

The values admittedly are shooting for the LCD.

I was relying to the "lofty ideals and motives" b.s. And it is just that. Yes they built a lot during that time, but lofty ideals and motives had nothing to do with it whatsoever.

ETA: If you want a good look at it, read Marty Sklar's book - Dream It! Dot It! He writes a lot about what could have been, and never was during that time.
Tell Joe Rohde his theme park doesn't have lofty ideals and motives and I'm sure you'll be rethinking what's B.S.

Edit: What started as a simple definitional thing has spawned a discussion, I'll refrain from posting further.

I hope whatever comes to Tomorrowland is great!
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
You're correct about their being a lost balance of both education and fun within the Disney parks. It's just the times, i suppose. The "times" started when Universal opened phase one of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. As of now, we are in a battle unlike no other, where we see the once king of amusement entertainment go head to head with a now risen champion. Will this battle ever end? I don't believe so. But the best thing about this is that we are caught in the middle of all that is going down. Because of Universal's achievement in total immersion, we now get not one, not two, but three immersive themed lands from Disney. It is a great time to be a theme park fan.
Three immersive themed lands? I only see Avatar and Star Wars. Please tell me you're not talking about Toy Story.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
To expand on what you said Disney theme parks aimed for a wider audience than just those who liked Disney movies. They still can and do aim for a wider audience but that's mostly because of what was already built previously.

On the flip side, though, they've expanded "Disney movies" (being all inclusive with all the film divisions) to feature a variety of popular genres so that even sticking to "Disney" IP, they can have significant variety and appeal to different groups.

Not that I wouldn't mind some non-IP stuff tossed in as well....
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
Good news! I went to MK today and some good tiny additions have been made. Some new lighting for the EPCOT and a new plaque for CoP.
 

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