Stitch Fatigue: A look into the rise and accomplishment of a modern icon

[DisneySoccerFan]

Not too sure how your memory works, but most of the films that came out of the Disney animation studios in the mid to late 90's, did better than Lilo & Stitch ever could.

Overall US Box Office Earnings:

The Lion King (1994) - $328,423,001
Toy Story 2 (1999) - $245,823,397
Toy Story (1995) - $191,773,049
Tarzan (1999) - $171,085,177
A Bugs Life (1998) - $162,792,677

Lilo & Stitch (2002) - $145,771,527

Pocahontas (1995) - $141,600,000
Mulan (1998) - $120,618,403

There were only 2 films during that time that didn't do better than Lilo & Stitch.

Does anyone have figures for Aladdin, Hunchback, Emperor's New Groove, Treasure Planet, Brother Bear, and Home on the Range? I think Stitchfan712 was excluding Toy Story, Toy Story 2, and Bug's Life as they were Pixar films and not "classic" animation form Disney Animation Studios, but I could be wrong.

Lets not forget that "The Lion King" was made into a Broadway musical, and the "Toy Story" character toys sold like hot cakes for a number of years.

Yes, Lion King is an "instant classic" and remains ahead of L&S at this time. However both movies are much closer to the Disney Animation tradition of Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc. than anything else produced in the past decade. In regards to Toy Story merchandise, many of those were previously established toys (i.e. Mr. Potato Head, Etch-A-Sketch, etc.) and had/have big toy companies behind them, not just Disney.

 

[Legacy]

Yes, Lion King is an "instant classic" and remains ahead of L&S at this time. However both movies are much closer to the Disney Animation tradition of Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc. than anything else produced in the past decade.

I have to disagree with you there. Hunchback and Pocahontas both follow the style of the Disney Classics even more than Lilo and Stitch does. Story-wise, I think Brother Bear and Mulan are the strongest films released in a long time. Character-wise, Lilo and Stitch and Emporer's New Groove are the strongest.

Lilo and Stitch is NOT classic Disney.

 

[PurpleDragon]

Does anyone have figures for Aladdin, Hunchback, Emperor's New Groove, Treasure Planet, Brother Bear, and Home on the Range? I think Stitchfan712 was excluding Toy Story, Toy Story 2, and Bug's Life as they were Pixar films and not "classic" animation form Disney Animation Studios, but I could be wrong.

Overall US Box Office Earnings:

Aladdin (1992) - $217,350,219
Beauty and the Beast (1991) - $171,301,428
The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996) -$100,117,603
Emperor's New Groove (2000) - $87,320,505 (5 weeks in top 10 same as Lilo & Stitch)
Treasure Planet (2002) - $38,120,554

I am not arguing that it was not the highest grossing animated movie to come out of Disney since 1999, but its kind of a false statement to say it was more successful that the movies from the 90's.

The year 2000 was the begining of the end for the Disney animaiton department. That is when Eisner and his team began thinning out the department. During the time that Lilo & Stitch was made there were only a small handful of good animators left at Disney.

Yes, Lion King is an "instant classic" and remains ahead of L&S at this time. However both movies are much closer to the Disney Animation tradition of Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc. than anything else produced in the past decade. In regards to Toy Story merchandise, many of those were previously established toys (i.e. Mr. Potato Head, Etch-A-Sketch, etc.) and had/have big toy companies behind them, not just Disney.

The toys from "Toy Story" I am speaking of are Buzz and Woody, characters specifically from the movie. There was one holiday season (don't know exact year) where many stores could not keep up with demand for those 2 characters. At least around here that was the case.

 

[Lynx04]

Yes, Lion King is an "instant classic" and remains ahead of L&S at this time.

One of the reasons Lion King was an "instant classic" was because it had a strong score backing it up. Usually with great Disney movies there is a soundtrack that helps push it to greatness. I haven't seen L&S but did they have note worthy score or soundtrack?

 

[Stitchfan712]

In my post, I said from the mid 90s on.

Meaning, post-Lion King. And I deliberately exclude pixar. They don't count as true disney movies imho. They were made by pixar and Disney is a partner in this, but disney itself is not the creator.


And, I wasn't talking about strict box office earnings, either. I'm talking about overall earnings.


To illustrate, find the figures on overall rentals, movie sales, and merchandise sales from these movies, then compensate for the fact that LS is only 2 years old, (weight the numbers if you will, then, since others have had longer time to sell and rent movies), and then compare.

My point will therefore be proven.


Now, I didn't say the public forced disney to make more merchandise. I'm saying that the public likes Stitch enough that the demand has been high for Stitch related merchandise. There was public clamor for Stitch merch in 2003...many adults asking for adult Stitch t-shirts at the resorts. This is what was picked up on and used as a basis for the first test merchandise and then, steady merch.

Please re-read my prior posts as I think a few of you are misinterpreting what I actually said.


As far as LS not being classic disney: What's your definition of a classic? Because some might disagree with this point of view. Read: Lilo and Stitch, Collected Stories, and you might form a different opinion. Lilo and Stitch is a modern classic.

 

[Stitchfan712]

Didn't read your whole post so I'm not sure if you made any other similar statements. Sorry it was way too long, I have a short attention span :hammer: :snore:

Ah, that would explain the response then. Please read the entire thing, I think you'll see my point much clearer.

 

[Stitchfan712]

I think you have an clouded view of capitalism if you think that the public "forced" Disney into marketing Stitch. The movie was a critical and financial success. That was something that wasn't expected by the Disney higher-ups. The merchandising and cartoon came about because of the film, not because people were complaining that there wasn't enough Stitch. There was no "slow arm twisting" anywhere. Disney started preparing Stitch to be highly marketed probably right after its opening weekend.

Oh, but there was arm-twisting in a metaphorical sense. But i addressed that in the previous response.

Stitch's popularity was never lacking... I don't know where you got that idea. Just because he isn't in the public eye doesn't mean he's not popular.


And I think he's REALLY close to becoming over-hyped.

I never said he wasn't popular. I said he was a slow-burn. He started off slow, and grew big, over the course of the movie's theatrical run and thereafter.

 

[Stitchfan712]

However both movies are much closer to the Disney Animation tradition of Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc. than anything else produced in the past decade.

Absolutely correct. And folks, remember, "past decade" means post-lion king onwards. It came out in 1994.

 

[Legacy]

I never said he wasn't popular. I said he was a slow-burn. He started off slow, and grew big, over the course of the movie's theatrical run and thereafter.

Stitch isn't a slow-burn character! He has had a steady stream of stuff since he was introduced two years ago. He was popular with the movies release, and it never really died down.

Kronk is a slow-burn character. Basil of Bakerstreet is a slow-burn character. The Horned King is a slow-burn character.

Not Stitch. Two years isn't enough time for a slow burn.

 

[Stitchfan712]

One more thing:

If we are to take a look at the earnings of Lilo and Stitch in its 2 years of life, you have to average out the annual earnings on merch, rentals, and movie purchases, plus the original box office NET, not the gross. The NET. What it made up versus what it cost to produce the movie.

Average that out by year, then compare with other disney movies and their respective franchises.


I'm sure you'll find, taken that way, a strong start for lilo and stitch that hasn't been seen at Disney (NOT counting pixar), since the Lion King.


And we can argue "yeah, but disney retired a lot of merchandise aftera few years so that's not fair".


Yes it is fair. disney retired the merchandise because demand for it fell, it simply wasn't selling. So that does count. It's a longevity factor


I know some people here don't like Stitch's character, but that doesn't mean that he's not popular. He is...and his strong presence at disney these days has to do with public demand.

As I said, if the public didn't like stitch, the merch wouldn't sell, and the reactions to anything relating to him wouldn't be as positive.

disney has tested the waters, received overwhelmingly positive response, and carried on. And that's the formula for any movie. Pocahontas, Hunchback, Groove, had their chance. The public didn't bite, not like this.

 

[Stitchfan712]

Stitch isn't a slow-burn character! He has had a steady stream of stuff since he was introduced two years ago. He was popular with the movies release, and it never really died down.

Kronk is a slow-burn character. Basil of Bakerstreet is a slow-burn character. The Horned King is a slow-burn character.

Not Stitch. Two years isn't enough time for a slow burn.

I don't know how else to put this but I will try once more to explain:

Yes he is. To a degree. He was popular with the movie's release....but it was a steady growth. Listen, a 140 million gross box office is a moderate hit, not a smash hit. But, after the fact, more and more people began to come into the fold and discover these characters based on word of mouth. That's what I mean.

The movie was almost written off by the public and by disney when it arrived at theatres. Disney's attention was on TP, the public didn't expect something as strong as what they got in this movie, and the promotion wasn't as stellar as it could have been.

That's what I mean. It took people, word of mouth, to bring more into the fold, discover stitch, and ensure his lasting popularity. There are tons of people out there who didn't see the movie in theatres because they didn't think it'd be worthwhile. Based on what they heard after the fact, they rented it or viewed it, and the movie's popularity grew immensely.

Stitch could have been a 300 million hit if a good percentage of these late-comers had seen it in the theaters.

Can you see my point? If not, I give up.

 

[NemoRocks78]

And 2 years later, their hard effort, their sweat and love....has earned the product of their labor a place right next to the legendary Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, and Goofy.

I highly, HIGHLY doubt that Stitch could ever come close to the greatness of the "Fab 5." He'll probably become a character like Buzz Lightyear -- popular with many but not popular enough.

This is a direct result of the former, ultra-conservative mindset of DL's previous presidents, Harris and Pressler who destroyed that park.

While Harris and Pressler were evil people ( :lol: ), I don't see how you can blame the low usage of Stitch at the DLR on them.

To illustrate, find the figures on overall rentals, movie sales, and merchandise sales from these movies, then compensate for the fact that LS is only 2 years old, (weight the numbers if you will, then, since others have had longer time to sell and rent movies), and then compare.

Finding Nemo holds the record for most DVD sales in one day. I'm pretty sure that is has sold and rented better than Lilo & Stitch...

I also am curious to see why you think the movie could even be considered a "Disney classic." A good movie, yes, but it cannot compare to the likes of Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, The Lion King, Beauty & the Beast, The Little Mermaid, and others.

 

[Stitchfan712]

But I'm not looking at Pixar movies, Nemorocks. This only has to do with disney movies.

Pixar's films are Disney in name only. It's pixar's animators who created them, not Disney's. Pixar's management that oversees their initial creation, not as much disney's.


I'm talking full-blooded Disney movies only.

I don't see how you can blame the low usage of Stitch at the DLR on them.

Lack of imagination.

 

[NemoRocks78]

But I'm not looking at Pixar movies, Nemorocks. This only has to do with disney movies.

Pixar's films are Disney in name only. It's pixar's animators who created them, not Disney's. Pixar's management that oversees their initial creation, not as much disney's.


I'm talking full-blooded Disney movies only.

When did I ever mention Pixar films?

Lack of imagination.

They green-lighted attractions based on Buzz Lightyear and Winnie the Pooh, so they surely can't be blamed on not introducing animated characters into the parks (also, during the time of their reign Stitch was not a very popular character).

 

[joel_maxwell]

That was quite possibly the longest thread I have ever read in my entire life :lol:

i had to take a break or two since i started it this morning..... lol as well!!!!

 

[Testtrack321]

The point of this thread was what? To say Stitch is popular? And the big news is....

I mean really, Stitch is a very popular character, not Mickey, but still popular. Us at WDWMagic arn't angry against this, nor do we want to rip appart Sttich because of it. The simple fact, to the point, is that the attraction created for him, and it's location, BLOWS. The plot is awfully written, and the attraction proves that Disney just wanted to cash in on Stitch. I mean, they re-worked the second theater so it can spill INTO the gift shop for crying out loud!

 

[Stitchfan712]

When did I ever mention Pixar films?

when you said that Nemo's sales would be better than Stitch's.

I'm sure they are, in terms of DVD, not in terms of merchandise. However, I'm only talking about Stitch's success compared to other Disney movies.

Pixar is not Disney.


LS, I regret to say, is indeed blown away by the poplarity of Pixar's films. But it doesn't say much for disney to need pixar as a crutch because their own films can't make it.


LS made it. The first Disney movie to become so popular and produce a modern icon for the last 10 years, free of Pixar's involvement.

 

[PurpleDragon]

In my post, I said from the mid 90s on.

Meaning, post-Lion King. And I deliberately exclude pixar. They don't count as true disney movies imho. They were made by pixar and Disney is a partner in this, but disney itself is not the creator.


And, I wasn't talking about strict box office earnings, either. I'm talking about overall earnings.


To illustrate, find the figures on overall rentals, movie sales, and merchandise sales from these movies, then compensate for the fact that LS is only 2 years old, (weight the numbers if you will, then, since others have had longer time to sell and rent movies), and then compare.

I was unable to find any info many of the forementioned Disney movies, more than likely due to the sporadic use of the "Disney Vault".

I will keep looking, but the info I did find still proves your theory incorrect.


VHS/DVD rental history after 4th week:

Emperor's New Groove (2000) - $12,090,000
Lilo & Stitch (2002) - $9,600,000

 

[Stitchfan712]

The point of this thread was what? To say Stitch is popular? And the big news is....

I mean really, Stitch is a very popular character, not Mickey, but still popular. Us at WDWMagic arn't angry against this, nor do we want to rip appart Sttich because of it. The simple fact, to the point, is that the attraction created for him, and it's location, BLOWS. The plot is awfully written, and the attraction proves that Disney just wanted to cash in on Stitch. I mean, they re-worked the second theater so it can spill INTO the gift shop for crying out loud!

The point of this thread is that I've seen a lot of ragging on Stitch lately and a general mood shift here. People may not like SGE, that's fine....but the character itself seems to be taking a right royal beating on these forums as of late.


I'm standing up and saying...hey guys....what Stitch accomplished is really a good thing. Maybe piling on him isn't the best idea.

disney needed a success after so long without one. almost seems as if some here wish that success had never come, and would be perfectly happy with failure after failure with no clear character or movie to help move the company out of this rut.



This is a thread to show appreciation and respect for what the animators in Florida accomplished. Some of them read these boards you know. Some people who worked real hard on that movie frequent us. I'm sure they are just a bit stung to see their hard work attacked because it was successful.


I'm a Stitch fan in the truest sense of the word. While with this comes a bit of controversy, I will stick up for him if I feel we're being just a bit too overboard in our comments. As I would for a friend as well.


This venom is really getting to me though. I like these boards, I really haven't found a better source of info and discussion on WDW online. But being who I am, I grow weary of these attacks. I think we need to take a step back.

I'm sure SGE has a lot to do with this. People are disappointed in the ride and are now turning on the character too. And those of us who actually like him or the ride seem to be getting shouted down.

I'm resisting.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I thought Lilo was a much stronger character than Stitch when I saw the movie, but...a chubby little girl with subtle adult neuroses isn't as marketable as a blue-furred alien with a funny voice, I guess.

More power to all the Stitch fans out there, but I always found Lilo more identifiable and more interesting. Could be just me.