Stitch Fatigue: A look into the rise and accomplishment of a modern icon

[Stitchfan712]

I was unable to find any info many of the forementioned Disney movies, more than likely due to the sporadic use of the "Disney Vault".

I will keep looking, but the info I did find still proves your theory incorrect.


VHS/DVD rental history after 4th week:

Emperor's New Groove (2000) - $12,090,000
Lilo & Stitch (2002) - $9,600,000

Where's the other weeks?

Where's the merch figures?

The sales history?


All factors must be included. Not just one. I am curious....would you like to prove that Lilo and Stitch is unpopular? Or do you want to exchange in discussion...that's what I'm here for, not a competition to prove I'm right or wrong.

 

[PurpleDragon]

Where's the other weeks?

Where's the merch figures?

The sales history?


All factors must be included. Not just one. I am curious....would you like to prove that Lilo and Stitch is unpopular? Or do you want to exchange in discussion...that's what I'm here for, not a competition to prove I'm right or wrong.

Sorry thats all I could find, there is not a lot of information on VHS/DVD sales for many Disney movies. Strange huh?

Anyway, I'm not here to prove that Stitch is unpopular, just to show to you that the Lilo & Stitch movie was not any more popular than any of the movies that came out in the mid to late 90's.

Now 2000 on, you got a good arguement!:lol: But the 90's was a good time for Disney animation, for the most part.

 

[Stitchfan712]

The point I'm making to you, is that Lilo and Stitch is actually more popular, overall, than movies made, by Disney alone, following The Lion King.


L&S's box office gross has been surpassed several times by movies released before it. But the box office isn't the only factor. Also factors are the NET gross, what the movie made after production costs were paid off (for example, a movie with a 100 million budget, making just 110 million at the box office, is a NET box office failure.)

then, movie rentals, purchases, merchandise, and other things which contribute to the franchise's overall earnings.

These things factored, the only true rival to Lilo and Stitch, is Tarzan, which was carried mostly by the strength of the Phil Collins soundtrack. But as far as merch sales go, that movie didn't do so well. But what about rentals and sales? I don't know, but I imagine they were fairly healthy for a while.

Did it surpass Lilo and Stitch? I don't think so. But Tarzan would really be the only true rival to Lilo and Stitch in earnings.


New Groove treaded water.


but, the only way to show this is to have these earnings averaged out on an average per-year income. Taken as totals, even some of the biggest disney flops would appear to do better than LS because they've been out longer. LS is only 2 years old. So we have to divide and make it an annual earnings to show the popularity.

Pocahontas itself could blow lilo and stitch away, in a gross-income sense...because of how long it has been around to accumulate DVD and VHS sales and rentals, though merch was never a hot seller for this movie.

See the formula?

 

[PurpleDragon]

The point I'm making to you, is that Lilo and Stitch is actually more popular, overall, than movies made, by Disney alone, following The Lion King.


L&S's box office gross has been surpassed several times by movies released before it. But the box office isn't the only factor. Also factors are the NET gross, what the movie made after production costs were paid off (for example, a movie with a 100 million budget, making just 110 million at the box office, is a NET box office failure.)

then, movie rentals, purchases, merchandise, and other things which contribute to the franchise's overall earnings.

These things factored, the only true rival to Lilo and Stitch, is Tarzan, which was carried mostly by the strength of the Phil Collins soundtrack. But as far as merch sales go, that movie didn't do so well. But what about rentals and sales? I don't know, but I imagine they were fairly healthy for a while.

Did it surpass Lilo and Stitch? I don't think so. But Tarzan would really be the only true rival to Lilo and Stitch in earnings.


New Groove treaded water.


but, the only way to show this is to have these earnings averaged out on an average per-year income. Taken as totals, even some of the biggest disney flops would appear to do better than LS because they've been out longer. LS is only 2 years old. So we have to divide and make it an annual earnings to show the popularity.

Pocahontas itself could blow lilo and stitch away, in a gross-income sense...because of how long it has been around to accumulate DVD and VHS sales and rentals, though merch was never a hot seller for this movie.

See the formula?

I understand what your saying but without exact numbers, all of your information is based on hersay and guessing. I personally have not seen any Stitch themed retail products anywhere, until recently(due to the ride opening). But I have seen Tarzan themed proucts everywhere, from Target, to Walmart, to Publix. Its usually sitting on the shelf between the Ariel stuff and the Nemo stuff. But due to the flooding of Disney products into the market, I think that all Disney character retail sales are suffering. Because Eisner and his team have slapped the Disney name on anything they can (i.e. Disney paper towels and tupperware ).

I think its safe to say that without any type of numbers to back up our statements, neither of us is right. Would you agree with that?

 

[Stitchfan712]

Stitch hasn't invaded the likes of walmart and Target yet.

I keep looking, but the selection is really limited from disney anyway at these stores.

 

[NemoRocks78]

The film wasn't very profitable. It carried an $80 million production budget and $40 million for advertising, which totals $120 million. The film made $145.7 million domestically. Not very profitable, if you ask me.

Also, about merchandise sales.....Forbes released a list of the top earning ficitional characters in 2003 in October. Mickey Mouse, Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Lightyear, the Power Rangers, and even Finding Nemo made the list....but Lilo & Stitch was nowhere to be seen.

And the DVD was on the top 20 sales chart for only 11 weeks. For comparison, Finding Nemo was on for 24 weeks and The Lion King 1 1/2, a Direct-To-Video release, stuck on there for 7 straight weeks (as did Brother Bear, and Atlantis: The Lost Empire did it in six). While LK1.5, BB, and AtLE might not have been on as long as Lilo & Stitch, they sure did come very close to be so.

Stitch, while popular, just isn't popular enough. I can think of MANY characters from Disney and non-Disney films that are more popular. And I believe that if Disney continues to push him into the faces of everyone, his popularity will start to decline. The way they are pushing him right now is ridiculous, IMO.

 

[Stitchfan712]

But half of 2003 was spend with relatively little Stitch merchandise being available.

the explosion didn't even begin occuring till the summer of '03, and throughout '04 we've seen even more.


I'd wait till the 2004 numbers and 2005 numbers are released. I think they will tell a very different story.

Second, the domestic box earnings is only one slice of the pie. Gotta add the rest.

Third, the DVD sales needs to be looked at from an overall perspective...not just how well it did for a short amount of time.

Case in point:

Ever heard of an album called Dark Side of the Moon? It's the fourth largest selling album in the world. It also has the longest chart run of any rock and roll music album.

but it was in the Top 20 for just a few weeks.

It stayed in the top 200, however, from 1973 to 1988. Pretty impressive, and sold enough copies that to this day, somewhere in the world every minute of every day, that album is playing.

It's the overall sales that count.

 

[Legacy]

The point of this thread is that I've seen a lot of ragging on Stitch lately and a general mood shift here. People may not like SGE, that's fine....but the character itself seems to be taking a right royal beating on these forums as of late.

Okay... I'm gonna try and say this in the nicest possible way... but you are beginning to get me really frustrated. You say that people are bad mouthing Stitch, when NOBODY is bad mouthing Stitch. Some people don't like the character. But even they are not attacking the character. What we are complaining about is a sub-par attraction and over-commericalisation. That has NOTHING to do with Stitch; he is just the victim. We have problems with Disney putting him in places where he doesn't belong because, regardless of how good the character is, he is still a part of a whole. You should be HONORED that we want a rehab of the attraction so much, because that means that MORE people will really like Stitch. You are getting so defensive about attacks that you are imagining, its getting depressing.

We think Stitch is starting to over-saturate the market. Does that mean we don't like Stitch? Heck no! I think he is easily one of the best characters devised... ever. But that doesn't mean I think Stitch should be EVERYWHERE! People don't like that. Over-hyping and marketing can destroy a franchise. It may seem like we hate Stitch, but what we want for the franchise to not be destroyed.

Geez

 

[Hakunamatata]

The point of this thread was what? To say Stitch is popular? And the big news is....

I mean really, Stitch is a very popular character, not Mickey, but still popular. Us at WDWMagic arn't angry against this, nor do we want to rip appart Sttich because of it. The simple fact, to the point, is that the attraction created for him, and it's location, BLOWS. The plot is awfully written, and the attraction proves that Disney just wanted to cash in on Stitch. I mean, they re-worked the second theater so it can spill INTO the gift shop for crying out loud!

I agree. Disney has gotten to the point where they are willing to deface the ICON of the MK to promote the opening of the attraction, which by reports so far is questionable. Its like taking out a sub ride to put in a park.......very dissappointing.

 

[Legacy]

But half of 2003 was spend with relatively little Stitch merchandise being available.

the explosion didn't even begin occuring till the summer of '03, and throughout '04 we've seen even more.


I'd wait till the 2004 numbers and 2005 numbers are released. I think they will tell a very different story.

Second, the domestic box earnings is only one slice of the pie. Gotta add the rest.

Third, the DVD sales needs to be looked at from an overall perspective...not just how well it did for a short amount of time.

Case in point:

Ever heard of an album called Dark Side of the Moon? It's the fourth largest selling album in the world. It also has the longest chart run of any rock and roll music album.

but it was in the Top 20 for just a few weeks.

It stayed in the top 200, however, from 1973 to 1988. Pretty impressive, and sold enough copies that to this day, somewhere in the world every minute of every day, that album is playing.

It's the overall sales that count.

Now it just seems like you are making excuses. You proclaim about how the merchandising affects the numbers, but when the only full year of numbers are available, you say not enough was done with the license. If Nemo can make that list in half a year, and with the strong licenses that have been on there, I don't think Stitch stands a real chance.

 

[NemoRocks78]

You mention that little Stitch merchandise was available in '03 but more has been available this year. If that's the case, then how come the only place that seems to be selling any Stitch merchandise whatsoever is The Disney Store? I highly doubt that he'll get anywhere near the top ten (or twenty) in '04 or '05.

DVD sales from an overall perspective? Since DVD sale information really can't be found anywhere on the internet, I just decided to take a look at Amazon. The overall sales ranking for Lilo & Stitch is #1,843. The Lion King comes in at #236, The Emperor's New Groove at #864, Brother Bear at #766, and Hercules at #1,765.

Also, it isn't fair to not count Pixar films since they are distributed by Buena Vista. It seems as if you don't want them to be counted because you know they have made more money and are more popular than most Disney films, INCLUDING Lilo & Stitch.

It's time to face the facts....excuses aren't acceptable anymore.

 

[Legacy]

You mention that little Stitch merchandise was available in '03 but more has been available this year. If that's the case, then how come the only place that seems to be selling any Stitch merchandise whatsoever is The Disney Store? I highly doubt that he'll get anywhere near the top ten (or twenty) in '04 or '05.

DVD sales from an overall perspective? Since DVD sale information really can't be found anywhere on the internet, I just decided to take a look at Amazon. The overall sales ranking for Lilo & Stitch is #1,843. The Lion King comes in at #236, The Emperor's New Groove at #864, Brother Bear at #766, and Hercules at #1,765.

Also, it isn't fair to not count Pixar films since they are distributed by Buena Vista. It seems as if you don't want them to be counted because you know they have made more money and are more popular than most Disney films, INCLUDING Lilo & Stitch.

It's time to face the facts....excuses aren't acceptable anymore.

Wow... Hercules? I'm kinda surprised that that one beat out L&S.

 

[dxwwf3]

Wow... Hercules? I'm kinda surprised that that one beat out L&S.

Well that is just at Amazon. But I'd say you wouldn't see too much difference if you had the overall numbers to look at. I mean Lilo and Stitch was popular, but it didn't make that much more money than Hercules at the Domestic Box Office. And if you took inflation into account, Hercules was probably more successful at the Domestic Box Office.

I think the point is, let's not make Lilo and Stitch out to be a blockbuster film, because it wasn't. It was a nice hit and it overachieved in most people's minds. It just wasn't HUGE.

 

[Stitchfan712]

You mention that little Stitch merchandise was available in '03 but more has been available this year. If that's the case, then how come the only place that seems to be selling any Stitch merchandise whatsoever is The Disney Store? I highly doubt that he'll get anywhere near the top ten (or twenty) in '04 or '05.

DVD sales from an overall perspective? Since DVD sale information really can't be found anywhere on the internet, I just decided to take a look at Amazon. The overall sales ranking for Lilo & Stitch is #1,843. The Lion King comes in at #236, The Emperor's New Groove at #864, Brother Bear at #766, and Hercules at #1,765.

Also, it isn't fair to not count Pixar films since they are distributed by Buena Vista. It seems as if you don't want them to be counted because you know they have made more money and are more popular than most Disney films, INCLUDING Lilo & Stitch.

It's time to face the facts....excuses aren't acceptable anymore.

Pixar films are not Disney films.

They were made by pixar, marketed by disney. They do not count in my assessment of successful DISNEY movies.


So let me ask if I'm following you:


Stitch was a failure, commercially.

He is not popular.

The movie wasn't a success nor a big seller.....but the films that Disney openly admits didn't reach the mark, were more successful.

Stitch is not an icon.


Is this what you are saying?

 

[Legacy]

Pixar films are not Disney films.

They were made by pixar, marketed by disney. They do not count in my assessment of successful DISNEY movies.


So let me ask if I'm following you:


Stitch was a failure, commercially.

He is not popular.

The movie wasn't a success nor a big seller.....but the films that Disney openly admits didn't reach the mark, were more successful.

Stitch is not an icon.


Is this what you are saying?

To twist what is being said into statements like that is asinine. No one has said Stitch was a failure. No one has said he is not popular. No one is saying he wasn't successful. What we ARE saying is that it's not as big as Disney (and you) are making it out to be. Lilo and Stitch ISN'T the next Lion King. Lilo and Stitch will go down in history as one of the best, but that it will always be "one of".

 

[Lynx04]

The film wasn't very profitable. It carried an $80 million production budget and $40 million for advertising, which totals $120 million. The film made $145.7 million domestically. Not very profitable, if you ask me.

Also, about merchandise sales.....Forbes released a list of the top earning ficitional characters in 2003 in October. Mickey Mouse, Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Lightyear, the Power Rangers, and even Finding Nemo made the list....but Lilo & Stitch was nowhere to be seen.

And the DVD was on the top 20 sales chart for only 11 weeks. For comparison, Finding Nemo was on for 24 weeks and The Lion King 1 1/2, a Direct-To-Video release, stuck on there for 7 straight weeks (as did Brother Bear, and Atlantis: The Lost Empire did it in six). While LK1.5, BB, and AtLE might not have been on as long as Lilo & Stitch, they sure did come very close to be so.

Stitch, while popular, just isn't popular enough. I can think of MANY characters from Disney and non-Disney films that are more popular. And I believe that if Disney continues to push him into the faces of everyone, his popularity will start to decline. The way they are pushing him right now is ridiculous, IMO.

I posted this in this thread a few months ago showing the top producers of fictional characters. Stitch wasn't on the list of top 10.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=46300

 

[NemoRocks78]

Pixar films are not Disney films.

They were made by pixar, marketed by disney. They do not count in my assessment of successful DISNEY movies.

Once again....they were distributed by Buena Vista who are the people who distrubte Walt Disney Pictures, Touchstone Pictures, and Miramax films. Therefore, their popularity and success should be taken into account as well.

Stitch was a failure, commercially.

He is not popular.

The movie wasn't a success nor a big seller.....but the films that Disney openly admits didn't reach the mark, were more successful.

Stitch is not an icon.

#1 - I never said he was a failure, I meant that he was never the big "money-maker" you've made him out to be.
#2 - While a popular character, he is not as popular as the likes of the Fab 5, Disney Princesses, Spongebob Squarepants, Spider-Man, Shrek, etc.
#3 - You had said that the total account of DVD sales for other films had not been as high as the sales for Lilo & Stitch. I just proved to you (from one site) that they are.
#4 - I personally would not consider Stitch an icon because I believe that there are more popular Disney characters out there.

 

[Stitchfan712]

Just asking for clarification, thanks.

I would argue that Stitch is as popular at SpongeBob...if not, he's heading that way. Spider-man has been around for decades. Shrek....dunno.

 

[Legacy]

Just asking for clarification, thanks.

I would argue that Stitch is as popular at SpongeBob...if not, he's heading that way. Spider-man has been around for decades. Shrek....dunno.

What makes you think Stitch is heading to the popularity levels of Spongebob? Spongebob has merchandising EVERYWHERE... where Stitch is really limited to Disney locales. Big difference.

Spiderman has been around longer, yeah... but the movies are what really turned him into a commercial success. Prior to them he was limited to decent Saturday morning cartoons and comic books, leading to a more cult-ish appeal.

Shrek... I would say Shrek is more popular than Stitch, easy. Two highly profitables films, a popular attraction, and lots of merchandising locations.

 

[Stitchfan712]

Well, clearly I'm wrong.


I withdraw. This is too darn frustrating to continue with.