Star Wars themed land announced for Disneyland

D

Deleted member 107043

No, Walt wasn't ok with views like that. He did that because he had to.

But stop and think for a minute. If he hated it that much then why didn't he spruce up the entrance to the park? By the time he died Walt Disney Productions was awash with cash... WDW opened debt free. It would have been very easy for Walt or Roy Disney to have commissioned the imagineers to redesign the entrance and car park area in front of the Main Street train station.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
But stop and think for a minute. If he hated it that much then why didn't he spruce up the entrance to the park? By the time he died Walt Disney Productions was awash with cash... WDW opened debt free. It would have been very easy for Walt or Roy Disney to have commissioned the imagineers to redesign the entrance and car park area in front of the Main Street train station.
Walt wanted many areas of the park fixed up before he died. Some, like Fantasyland weren't finished until after. Even though he gained a lot of money between the time it opened and his death, he was only alive for the first 11 and a half years of the park's existence. He got more done in one decade then most people would've in two.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
So to sum it up, if the imagineers completely hide Star Wars land from the rest of the park, you'll know it's because they are ashamed of what they are building and take no pride in building Star Wars land in Disneyland, but if they don't hide it all, and you can see some parts from other areas of the park, you'll be mad because they didn't show any pride or care in their work, like Walt did?
Not so much what they're building as opposed to how and where they have to build it. While I surely can't speak for every imagineer, I'm sure that there is much controversy about this in house just like on this forum. While the extreme hiding may be somewhat of an admission to this. it's only the proper thing to do if you have a fit that bad. Like I said, this isn't their first rodeo andi feel that the imagineers would do it properly if given the resources.
 
D

Deleted member 107043

Walt wanted many areas of the park fixed up before he died. Some, like Fantasyland weren't finished until after.

Because he'd moved on to something more exciting and compelling. Maybe you care more about the technical aspects of theme park design than he did.
 
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yookeroo

Well-Known Member
So to sum it up, if the imagineers completely hide Star Wars land from the rest of the park, you'll know it's because they are ashamed of what they are building and take no pride in building Star Wars land in Disneyland, but if they don't hide it all, and you can see some parts from other areas of the park, you'll be mad because they didn't show any pride or care in their work, like Walt did?

When you're grasping, any straw looks attractive.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Because he'd moved on to something more exciting and compelling. Maybe you care more about the technical aspects of theme park design than he did.
While I agree with you that he jumped from project to project fast, but Walt set the standards for theme park design. He always got to his ideas eventually, likeTomorrowland 1967.
 
D

Deleted member 107043

While I agree with you that he jumped from project to project fast, but Walt set the standards for theme park design.

He did, but as I showed the standard was frequently based on the whims of the designers rather than a strict adherence to a set of prescribed rules.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
He did, but as I showed the standard was frequently based on the whims of the designers rather than a strict adherence to a set of prescribed rules.
True, but the standards applied to Walt's interests. To me, the park has for the most part maintained that Walt POV on things. There has always been a relatively strict organization to the theming that you can't fully deny.
 
D

Deleted member 107043

True, but the standards applied to Walt's interests. To me, the park has for the most part maintained that Walt POV on things. There has always been a relatively strict organization to the theming that you can't fully deny.

The point I'm making though that you can't deny is that there's always been exceptions. Singing chickens, aligators and possums in Tomorrowland and an English anthropomorphic teddy bear in the American backwoods do not make sense thematically.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
The point I'm making though that you can't deny is that there's always been exceptions. Singing chickens, aligators and possums in Tomorrowland and an English anthropomorphic teddy bear in the American backwoods do not make sense thematically.
While I agree with you about America Sings, I don't mind the Winnie the Pooh in Critter Country. To me, Critter Country is kind of an ROA version of Fantasyland. Critters in the forest are Citters in the forest regardless of their country of origin. I know it may sound kind of contradictory considering my stances so far, but that doesn't bug me anywhere near as much as Star Wars land personaly.
 
D

Deleted member 107043

To me, Critter Country is kind of an ROA version of Fantasyland. Critters in the forest are Citters in the forest regardless of their country of origin. Critters in the forest are Citters in the forest regardless of their country of origin.

Like Fantasyland, where the stories are tied together thematically as European fairytales, shouldn't the critters in Critter Country be similarly tied to American folklore? How did Pooh and his friends end up in a land based on a frontier backwoods American village adjacent to the Rivers of America with Brer Rabbit and other characters based on African-American folktales? It makes no sense thematically, but people seem to roll with it for whatever reason.

I know it may sound kind of contradictory considering my stances so far, but that doesn't bug me anywhere near as much as Star Wars land personaly.

And there you have it. Finally you admit that your argument is about your personal reaction to SW Land rather than any set of established rules from Disney about what is appropriate content for the park, how stories and themes are tied together, or even what constitutes "Disney". This what I've been saying from the start.
 
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Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Like Fantasyland, where the stories are tied together thematically as European fairytales, shouldn't the critters in Critter Country be similarly tied to American folklore? How did Pooh and his friends end up in a land based on a frontier backwoods American village adjacent to the Rivers of America with Brer Rabbit and other characters based on African-American folktales? It makes no sense thematically, but people seem to roll with it for whatever reason.



And there you have it. Finally you admit that your argument is about your personal reaction to SW Land rather than any set of established rules from Disney about what is appropriate content for the park, how stories and themes are tied together, or even what constitutes "Disney". This what I've been saying from the start.
You have a great comment here. Yes, it was all my personal opinion on the land's insertion from the start just like your comments were your personal opinions on the land's insertion. but you have to admit that it does break barriers. It is the first land truly based on one franchise and one that was not created nor adapted into a traditional disney-esque style. Star Wars is great, Disney is great, but they only mix well in certain environments like the studios. Fact is, the style and approach of a Star Wars land probably isn't going to feel like the rest of the Magic Kingdom to most people whether they love it or hate it. While the rules I stated earlier have proven arguable, the one that has been maintained is that Walt Disney feeling of the park. Pooh has that Walt Disney feeling, but I can see both sides of the argument considering its placement in an America themed area in the park. In fact, I still think that its a much better fit than a ride about Pirates in the Caribean in a land themed to New Orleans, and that was a choice made by Walt himself. I think that the placement of later versions in Adventureland has worked better thematically. We can agree and Disagree about the placement of certain attractions. But when it comes to lands in any of the kingdoms, I always ask myself "Does it feel like or relate to Walt's views and/or ideas?". The park isn't viewed as a roadmap of his life for nothing. I may have muddled my argument with a few arguable rules, but the one rule I was trying to emphasize as true fact was the rule of Walt. I can now see places where my overall argument may have been too confusing and I'm sorry for that. As I said before, I'm not trying to change the minds of you or anyone else who is for the land, I'm just trying to get a point across that this is a different direction for the park and to understand the argument of those like myself who are against it. Its fine if you don't mind the land or even love it, just acknowledge that this is a different kind of addition and understand how it may rationally anger some who you may judge as rabid, nostalgia blind, fans.
 
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D

Deleted member 107043

Yes, it was all my personal opinion on the land's insertion from the start just like your comments were your personal opinions on the land's insertion. but you have to admit that it does break barriers

Of course it does, and I believe that I said that SW Land will be a game changer on several levels. I also fully acknowledge that I love Star Wars, so I am a bit biased. Where we disagree is whether SW deserves an entire land in the park and whether or not doing so offsets what the park's designers have cultivated over past 60 years. Thanks for your post. It was very thoughtful.
 
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D

Deleted member 107043

But when it comes to lands in any of the kingdoms, I always ask myself "Does it feel like or relate to Walt's views and/or ideas?".

Walt has been dead for close to 50 years. At what point do we stop doing this and allow DL to evolve in a way that is true to the original vision, but appeals to contemporary audiences? If you as a fan you are willing to say no to Star Wars what equally big idea would you be willing to say yes to?
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Of course it does, and I believe that I said that SW Land will be a game changer on several levels. I also fully acknowledge that I love Star Wars, so I am a bit biased. Where we disagree is whether SW deserves an entire land in the park and whether or not doing so offsets the what the park's designers have cultivated over past 60 years.
You're right, you did acknowledge that. Initially, I thoought your comments seemed a bit condescending. But I think we both get where we're coming frpm now and we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one. One of the main reasons I put so much emphasis on the change is that I personally feel that this could potentially be the direction the park will continue to go in with all future additions and that saddens me a great deal. I always understood why it may not bother some and I think that this is a great place for opinions to be spread and be debated.
 

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