Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Ep 8). SPOILERS. Plot points revealed and discussed.

[spacemt354]

Something to note: these are all domestic totals, not worldwide (Revenge of the Sith, adjusted is closer to $1.1 billion adjusted for inflation worldwide. Just wanted to point it out since the prequels and Rogue One seemed much lower than expected)

Yes I know it's the domestic totals -- that's why the title of the chart says: List of Top Domestic Box-Office All-Time

International markets have significantly grown over the years -- propping up many films into the billion dollar club. It's not exactly the best metric to use when comparing film box office totals from different eras, hence why I chose domestic for the comparison.

 

[LukeS7]

Yes I know it's the domestic totals -- that's why the title of the chart says: List of Top Domestic Box-Office All-Time

International markets have significantly grown over the years -- propping up many films into the billion dollar club. It's not exactly the best metric to use when comparing film box office totals from different eras, hence why I chose domestic for the comparison.

I actually missed the "Domestic" part at the top of your post the first time through, my bad

 

[Gomer]

Well yah if you put it that way. I’m assuming their would be consequences for the living. Since we saw Yoda bring down lightning in TLJ, I’m thinking about how Luke and others will be used in IX. Could get very interesting!

I actually have a working theory on this. Not sure how well it holds up yet.

But Snoke's comments about light needing to rise to match the dark, combined with the location of every force ghost event in the saga could play into the ability (as well as feasibly the force projection power, since it seemingly runs on the same principle of transporting the "soul" )

But, every time we see a force ghost, it is in the presence of a place that is powerful with the darkside. Dagobah, near the cave. Ahch-To where there as seemingly darker darkside Cavern. And Endor, after the death of the emperor (running with the theory that these dark side hot spots are created when a powerful darksider dies).

So, it would work as sort of an amplifier for the spirits, which would explain why Obi-Wan is a disembodied voice or barely seen phantom outside of these locations in the OT, but grabs a seat on a log in Dagobah like he's really there. Or why Yoda can interact with the weather on Ahch-To.

 

[spacemt354]

I actually missed the "Domestic" part at the top of your post the first time through, my bad

All good...At first I was like -- wait didn't I say that?

 

[bclane]

I actually have a working theory on this. Not sure how well it holds up yet.

But Snoke's comments about light needing to rise to match the dark, combined with the location of every force ghost event in the saga could play into the ability (as well as feasibly the force projection power, since it seemingly runs on the same principle of transporting the "soul" )

But, every time we see a force ghost, it is in the presence of a place that is powerful with the darkside. Dagobah, near the cave. Ahch-To where there as seemingly darker darkside Cavern. And Endor, after the death of the emperor (running with the theory that these dark side hot spots are created when a powerful darksider dies).

So, it would work as sort of an amplifier for the spirits, which would explain why Obi-Wan is a disembodied voice or barely seen phantom outside of these locations in the OT, but grabs a seat on a log in Dagobah like he's really there. Or why Yoda can interact with the weather on Ahch-To.

Whoa that’s interesting. Gonna have to ponder that one for a while but it makes sense. Very cool theory!

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Not to change the subject, but is anyone else looking forward to seeing Luke become even more powerful as a Force Ghost than he ever was in life? Since I was a kid I’ve been dying to see Obi-Wan’s words about that come to fruition. And then there is the possibility of Dark side Force ghosts. Yikes!!! And what If we get a full on Force ghost battle between Luke, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin vs. the Emperor, Snoke and whoever else etc all duking it out. Holy cow!!!

That scene with Yoda really raised the stakes, but also raised some questions.

Wouldn't a force ghost with physical powers be too powerful? Why didn't Obi-Wan just force ghost appear inside the Death Star and zap the reactor with lightning?

Will it be like Lord of the Rings? Surprise, I have a ghost army now!

An early draft of Return of the Jedi had Yoda and Obi-Wan appearing and impacting the confrontation between Luke and the Emperor, so this expanded powers of force ghosts is something Lucas himself had considered.

 

[21stamps]

List of Top Domestic Box-Office All-Time
Adjusted for 2017 Inflation

2 - Star Wars - $1,590,608,000
11 - The Force Awakens - $965,467,800
13 - Empire Strikes Back - $876,753,100
16 - Return of the Jedi - $839,950,500
18 - Episode I: The Phantom Menace - $806,486,800
57 - Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - $539,743,700
64 - Episode III: Revenge of the Sith - $529,768,500
94 - Episode II: Attack of the Clones - $477,473,400

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

First off -- All 8 live-action Star Wars films (I don't count the animated one) are in the top 100 adjusted domestic box office of all time. That's beyond successful.

Secondly, despite the franchise's success, note the significant drop off between first installments in a trilogy and its follow up film.

The Phantom Menace to Attack of the Clones saw a $329,013,400 adjusted revenue difference. A 41% decline
Star Wars to Empire Strikes Back saw a $713,854,900 adjusted revenue difference. A 45% decline.

When looked at through a narrow lens, people will compare The Force Awakens totals to The Last Jedi totals, and claim that it is not living up to 'expectations'.

The Last Jedi will make Disney plenty of money in the long run. Currently, it is not keeping pace with The Force Awakens, nor do I expect it to ever catch up based on past trends.

This is what I was saying earlier this morning. The hype that was The Force Awakens can not be replicated. Nor can the feelings of seeing that movie, specifically the original characters, after so many years. I don’t think it’s realistic for anyone to expect the same.

Movies come out on DVD/iTunes so quickly compared to 2 decades ago.. movie theaters are expensive.. some families may wait til The Last Jedi comes out on DVD, or a second run theater, before viewing. With TFA, they probably didn’t want to wait, and did see it on first release.

That’s my assumption on it.

 

[bclane]

That scene with Yoda really raised the stakes, but also raised some questions.

Wouldn't a force ghost with physical powers be too powerful? Why didn't Obi-Wan just force ghost appear inside the Death Star and zap the reactor with lightning?

Will it be like Lord of the Rings? Surprise, I have a ghost army now!

An early draft of Return of the Jedi had Yoda and Obi-Wan appearing and impacting the confrontation between Luke and the Emperor, so this expanded powers of force ghosts is something Lucas himself had considered.

Yeah it’s a REALLY big deal if they do go that route. It could be, like @Gomer suggests that they can only appear in certain places and so any interaction they have in the realm of the living (outside of a disembodied voice) can only happen in certain locations...thus limiting their impact. Who knows? Things could get pretty nuts though.

 

[spacemt354]

This is what I was saying earlier this morning. The hype that was The Force Awakens can not be replicated. Nor can the feelings of seeing that movie, specifically the original characters, after so many years. I don’t think it’s realistic for anyone to expect the same.

Movies come out on DVD/iTunes so quickly compared to 2 decades ago.. movie theaters are expensive.. some families may wait til The Last Jedi comes out on DVD, or a second run theater, before viewing. With TFA, they probably didn’t want to wait, and did see it on first release.

That’s my assumption on it.

Completely agree. It's different for other film franchises, where the original film makes the least amount at the box office, and based on its positive reception and/or it being a more well-known franchise, brings more people out to see its sequels.... for instance the Dark Knight Trilogy.

Batman Begins in 2005 made only $374,218,673 WW. Its sequel The Dark Knight jumped to $1,004,558,444 WW and The Dark Knight Rises continued at $1,084,939,099 WW

Star Wars hype tends to be centered around when it returns, but after its back, while the fans still come out to see it, it's just not the phenomenon it is when it first returns.

 

[bclane]

On a side note, I can’t seem to find anything that says Carrie Fisher wrote the scene where she uses the Force to return to her ship. So it looks like I was wrong about that. All I could find is that she was excited about the scene, that she wrote some of her own lines for the movie, and that Kathleen Kennedy pushed to see Leia use the Force in VIII. So apologies for that...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You said franchise could really be starting to struggle, and that the parks could be impacted.

It's been said why this movie won't do as well as TFA. The numbers show Star Wars is still light years ahead of any other film franchise in terms of popularity.

How will a successful movie impact the parks negatively?

Because the softening of Star Wars revenues in multiple market segments is a cause for great alarm to disney and their accountants...and it could impact what's spent on Star Wars in the parks down the road.

Disney analysis is a longterm proposition...it always has been. Please tell me that you're not looking for the "Intro to Disney" economics course...this isn't hard.

Lower box office (if true) and lower product orders (definitely true according to tracking) is not a good thing for disney. That's kinda...well...oh forget it....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

On a side note, I can’t seem to find anything that says Carrie Fisher wrote the scene where she uses the Force to return to her ship. So it looks like I was wrong about that. All I could find is that she was excited about the scene, that she wrote some of her own lines for the movie, and that Kathleen Kennedy pushed to see Leia use the Force in VIII. So apologies for that...

It was cringeworthy...as she has been in the movies. Just can't put lipstick on that...

 

[spacemt354]

When looked at through a narrow lens, people will compare The Force Awakens totals to The Last Jedi totals, and claim that it is not living up to 'expectations'.

Right on cue

Because the softening of Star Wars revenues in multiple market segments is a cause for great alarm to disney and their accountants...and it could impact what's spent on Star Wars in the parks down the road.

Disney analysis is a longterm proposition...it always has been. Please tell me that you're not looking for the "Intro to Disney" economics course...this isn't hard.

Lower box office (if true) and lower product orders (definitely true according to tracking) is not a good thing for disney. That's kinda...well...oh forget it....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Right on queue

Not...because I'm comparing it more to rogue one...and a box office drop is expected but I want to see where that number falls...wait and see...that is worth tracking.

The patronizing is unearned because you appear to be not nearly bright enough to be my mom...

 

[bclane]

It was cringeworthy...as she has been in the movies. Just can't put lipstick on that...

Wait, are you saying Carrie Fisher was cringeworthy as Leia? If so, we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

[spacemt354]

Not...because I'm comparing it more to rogue one...and a box office drop is expected but I want to see where that number falls...wait and see...that is worth tracking.

You literally just said a box office drop is bad for Disney...then you say its "expected" when you're called out on it. It's not doom and gloom when looked at with context.

you appear to be not nearly bright enough to be my mom...

Oh boy...didn't know we were resorting to playground insults.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You literally just said a box office drop is bad for Disney...then you say its "expected" when you're called out on it. It's not doom and gloom when looked at with context.




Oh boy...didn't know we were resorting to playground insults.

We do when you go patronize...just stop and put out an actual thought...or say nothing.

And to clarify...because apparently we're in literal hour...if product softening and relatively soft box office show - tbd - it's worth watching...

I don't know what they expect for box office...but I would guess about $1.6...or halfway between the last two? Reasonable? Do you think they get there?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wait, are you saying Carrie Fisher was cringeworthy as Leia? If so, we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Yes...and I know that makes me the outlier...but I'll own it. She was physically incapable of performing the role in my opinion. That's actually on Lucas.

 

[spacemt354]

We are when you go patronize...just stop and put out an actual thought...or say nothing.

And to clarify...because apparently we're in literal hour...if product softening and relatively soft box office show - tbd - it's worth watching...

I don't know what they expect for box office...but I would guess about $1.6...or halfway between the last two? Reasonable? Do you think they get there?

'Actual thoughts' -- what you mean like opinions that agree with you?

I've already addressed my 'actual thoughts' and the issue you're talking about, hence my joking response. And I already said that I would predict it ends with $1.4-1.6 Billion. I think at this point, that is a reasonable estimate.

What I find disingenuous is the continual use of the terms 'soft box office' , 'product softening' -- when there needs to be context that these terms are comparing the film to one of the most lucrative films in history. Those terms don't have the same weight when viewed with context. It's a bit of a leap (at this point) to be making any sorts of theories about how negatively this will impact Disney.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Because the softening of Star Wars revenues in multiple market segments is a cause for great alarm to disney and their accountants...and it could impact what's spent on Star Wars in the parks down the road.

Disney analysis is a longterm proposition...it always has been. Please tell me that you're not looking for the "Intro to Disney" economics course...this isn't hard.

Lower box office (if true) and lower product orders (definitely true according to tracking) is not a good thing for disney. That's kinda...well...oh forget it....

I can picture those Disney accountants gathered around, seeing that TLJ made $450 million dollars in it's first weekend, with looks of utter despair on their faces.

I'm surprised they haven't cancelled Star Wars Land already, considering the utter lack of interest from the public in new Star Wars movies.

/sarcasm

By the way, TLJ earned 11% less than TFA did in it's opening weekend. A pessimist can focus on that being a decline, but an optimist will say that earning 11% less than the highest grossing film of all time did during it's first weekend, is a level of success most movies will never come close to.

We could say every movie is a disappointment if we compare it to TFA.

TLJ also earned 42% more than Rogue One did in it's opening weekend. Hardly the mark of a franchise in decline.