Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance

[flynnibus]

Sigh... the difference is the same as I've been saying, this is just a word game. RotR is done by park closing. Other major rides are done more than an hour after closing depending on queue time. The park hours are not ride hours, and RotR is unique in that it has two hour shorter operating hours than other marquee attractions (thus, two hours of downtime every day).

The issue is you calling it 'downtime' inferring it's not running when it 'should' vs simply not running late.

If the park closes at 10pm, and space mountain needs till 11:30 to clear the queue... and Pirates only needed till 10:30... you don't say 'Pirates had an additional hour of downtime' because it didn't run as late as Space Mountain. This time is 'overrun' - not necessarily scheduled operating time. Yes Disney accounts for it and plans for it.. but it's not regular the operating window.

We all know Disney normally expects these attractions to run past park close and that impacts the maintenance windows.. and we all know Disney is trying to avoid that with RoTR. What people are taking issue with is you labeling that 'downtime' in the context of 'missing expected running time' instead of simply 'limiting operating hours'.

 

[YodaMan]

Yeah, I’m sorry, but I’m calling BS on the “done 2 hours early” line. They intentionally flood the queue at the end of most nights. They guarantee you a 2-hour window to come back so that they can “cut” the line at park close, so they try their hardest to stop calling groups at 2 hours until park close. But the frequency at which they call groups near the end of the night is much higher so that they can try and get as many people on as they can even though they’ve “stopped calling.” During the day you might wait about 30/45 minutes once you’ve checked in and then be entirely contained in the queue, but in the evenings the line will often spill out onto Grand Ave and towards Muppets as boarding groups are called rapid-fire and you’ll have a 90-minute wait.

You also severely overestimate how long the lines are of the other attractions at park close. Something might “post” a 60-minute wait at closing, but with FP done there is never nearly as much of a line and it doesn’t remotely take that long for the ride to be clear of guests.

Basically what I’m saying is that if you actually were able to listen to when each ride at Hollywood Studios is completely clear of guests you would see that Rise is not magically done with guests over 2 hours sooner than all the other rides and in fact almost all rides clear within just minutes of each other.

 

[WDWTrojan]

No it doesn't. Guests have two hours to get on the ride once their group is called. If the last groups are called two hours before park close, then you have guests who can enter the queue one minute before park close just the same as any other ride. Maybe it's not as many as those getting on Slinky or Falcon, but they're still there.

By your standard you would need to have the line completely empty at park close and another ride with a queue that takes two hours past park close to empty. Or one hour before and one hour after. Etc. Neither seems to be the case.

What? An unlimited number of guests can enter SDD until 10pm, filling up the entire queue until the end of the day. This means the attraction will operate until long past the official closing of the park.

The last ROTR boarding group is called well before park closing, so while SDD must operate to clear their queue, nearly everyone who has had a boarding group is not waiting until the last minute to ride. They can clear their attraction of day guests within a couple minutes of park closing on most days.

 

[peter11435]

What? An unlimited number of guests can enter SDD until 10pm, filling up the entire queue until the end of the day. This means the attraction will operate until long past the official closing of the park.

The last ROTR boarding group is called well before park closing, so while SDD must operate to clear their queue, nearly everyone who has had a boarding group is not waiting until the last minute to ride. They can clear their attraction of day guests within a couple minutes of park closing on most days.

It’s not exactly an unlimited number of guests though. For one thing they will usually massively over post the wait time to discourage guests from getting in line towards the end of the night. Additionally they can and have closed queues early. This was seen recently with flight of passage. They are not willing to have attractions operating hours after park close. They have several methods to ensure attractions are clear of guests usually within an hour of park close.

 

[Purduevian]

What? An unlimited number of guests can enter SDD until 10pm, filling up the entire queue until the end of the day. This means the attraction will operate until long past the official closing of the park.

The last ROTR boarding group is called well before park closing, so while SDD must operate to clear their queue, nearly everyone who has had a boarding group is not waiting until the last minute to ride. They can clear their attraction of day guests within a couple minutes of park closing on most days.

Using Touring plans data: SDD had a Wait time of 35 minutes at 7:58pm last night (park closed 2 minutes later)

Looking at how the called boarding groups (assuming 1 group can be processed about every 6 minutes*). Assuming they keep ~45 minute line on average during the day. They called Groups 55 to 81 in the last hour of calling (5-6pm) or 26 groups. These 26 groups would take (26*6) 156 minutes to get through. Add in the 45 minutes of line already built up, gives a total time remaining of 201 minutes from 5pm. Meaning that assuming no break downs, RotR would end operation at 8:21 pm, 14 whole minutes earlier than SDD.

*Reading these forms I gather that each group is 100 people and RoTR is averaging about 1,100 people per hour right now. 100people per boarding group/1,100pph=0.09 hours per boarding group=5.45 minutes per boarding group

 

[easyrowrdw]

What? An unlimited number of guests can enter SDD until 10pm, filling up the entire queue until the end of the day. This means the attraction will operate until long past the official closing of the park.

The last ROTR boarding group is called well before park closing, so while SDD must operate to clear their queue, nearly everyone who has had a boarding group is not waiting until the last minute to ride. They can clear their attraction of day guests within a couple minutes of park closing on most days.

An unlimited number can enter the Slinky queue, but that doesn't happen. It's 30-45 minutes at the end of the night. I think it's the similar for Flight of Passage. Those are the most in-demand rides at Disney right now. The question isn't whether Rise is accommodating more guests, but rather how long it's operating. The poster said there was two hours of downtime at the end of the day compared to other attractions. Even if Slinky and FoP took an hour to clear their queue at the end of the night, Rise would have to be clear one hour before the park closes to get a two hour difference in operations. That's not happening.

 

[britain]

In the short term, no. In 2-5 years, the chances get higher with every year. The downward trajectory for the Disney trilogy in ticket sales and merchandise sales means that Disney brings in less revenue the longer they hold to it. However, there is a meeting in February to make initial determinations about GE for the next 2 years. With the popularity of RotR, I don't foresee changes to the focus being the Disney trilogy. But beyond that, it seems that neither the Prequels (other than Darth Maul and Obi Wan) nor the Disney Trilogy will hold comparable interest to the OT. Disney will go where the money is, and I can't see the Disney Trilogy being a long-term source for strong revenue.

That may be true, and on the theme park side of things they may start skewing things toward OT offerings. But the toys at Target sell best when there’s an event to promote, like a new tv show or movie.

So... if they figure the gold is in the OT, then they’d be tempted to make movies and shows right there, with the further adventures of R2, Luke, Leia, and Han vs Darth Vader.

BUT WOULD THEY DARE!? Solo burnt them badly. Maybe in animation? They’re already doing that a lot on YouTube.

I think they’ve slammed the door on truly eventful OT programming.

 

[lumberguy5]

Yeah, I’m sorry, but I’m calling BS on the “done 2 hours early” line. They intentionally flood the queue at the end of most nights. They guarantee you a 2-hour window to come back so that they can “cut” the line at park close, so they try their hardest to stop calling groups at 2 hours until park close. But the frequency at which they call groups near the end of the night is much higher so that they can try and get as many people on as they can even though they’ve “stopped calling.” During the day you might wait about 30/45 minutes once you’ve checked in and then be entirely contained in the queue, but in the evenings the line will often spill out onto Grand Ave and towards Muppets as boarding groups are called rapid-fire and you’ll have a 90-minute wait.

You also severely overestimate how long the lines are of the other attractions at park close. Something might “post” a 60-minute wait at closing, but with FP done there is never nearly as much of a line and it doesn’t remotely take that long for the ride to be clear of guests.

Basically what I’m saying is that if you actually were able to listen to when each ride at Hollywood Studios is completely clear of guests you would see that Rise is not magically done with guests over 2 hours sooner than all the other rides and in fact almost all rides clear within just minutes of each other.

Disneyland is cutting hours for RotR. Park stays open until midnight on the weekends and they cutoff Rise at 8 or 9 and close an hour later. The entire opening week, they have done 70 primary groups + backups even though half of the days are 8am-midnight rather than 9 to 9. Disneyland also only gives 1 hour to return for the backups.

In comparison on Saturday, Space opened at 7 am and ran until 1215 am, RotR opened at 8:20 am and ran until 9:45 pm.

 

[SteveTerranova]

Thanks for the info on the Coco ride...you seriously just made my year with this news
♥

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Updates time:

1) Thus far Rise of the Resistance is seen as a massive success as far as quality of experience is concerned. Thousands of people are showing up every day at 7 am and pressing Join Boarding Group like mad to try to experience the ride. Attendance at Hollywood Studios is up hugely year-to-year. So in that regard, mission accomplished (although Disneyland is a different beast).

2) Galaxy's Edge itself is not receiving the same stellar reviews and is likely to see changes over time at DHS. Food sales are lower than desired (which says something in DHS where there are few food options). Retail sales are also lower than needed. Guest interaction with Rey is not what they'd like to see either, with less participation compared to Chewbacca and Storm Troopers. And everybody from management up knows not a single guest usually knows who Vi Moradi is, and those who do don't care.

3) With The Force Awakens as a barometer, Disney is now ready to make significant changes to the Star Wars brand considering The Rise of Skywalker will end up pulling around half the capital of The Force Awakens. This continues to the downward trajectory, opposite of the Marvel brand. Star Wars merchandise continues to significantly underperform except for Original Trilogy and The Child merchandise. Jon Favreau looks to take over Lucasfilm once Kathleen Kennedy's contract is over, with Dave Filoni taking over as Lucasfilm Creative Lead. Iger has already made it known The Mandalorian is the formula going forward, and you can expect to see the Disney trilogy emphasized less and less as time goes on. This has little to do with agendas other than the Disney trilogy is proving to be less and less profitable. As a result, expect to see MUCH MORE of the Mandalorian in Galaxy's Edge by September of this year. C3P0 and R2D2 Meet and Greets are also planned, and those could be as soon as May.

4) Decisions will be made in February as to how and when expansions are to take place with Galaxy's Edge. The actual decisions may be hard to get out into the public sphere. Leaks have been very hard to get as of late, and even I have had to curtail posts to a great extent (and in so small part due to media using my posts as if they have an inside source other than reading my statements -- kudos to those who have been honest in reporting what I've said while attributing truthfully). When YouTubers and bloggers post my information as if they themselves gathered the information, it makes sources go dark.

5) Downtime for Rise of the Resistance is somewhere in the ballpark of 40%... and that's with non-stop maintenance at night to keep it running. Some of the issues are that certain vehicles repeatedly miss sensors, resulting in ride shutdowns. Elevators sometimes have issues similar to Tower of Terror, which lock down the entire ride. Basically, there are just so many technologies in the ride that have to work and can't be covered in the event of malfunction, that Rise of the Resistance represents the anti-redundancy model for attraction design.

6) Smuggler's Run continues to receive poor guest reviews, which is exacerbated by guests having long queue times at DHS to ride it. It is generally agreed that at the February meeting, Smuggler's Run will receive a go-ahead for a new replacement mission which will feature characters from The Mandalorian. Storyboards and concepts for this have already been ordered.

7) Blue Milk changes are coming in June-July. Expect the fruitiness to be toned down a bit.

8) Cameron is pushing for an expansion for Pandora at Animal Kingdom to coincide with the new films coming out. The proposed new developments would take place south of the drum circle, taking up part of cast parking. I'm told this development would be mostly indoor, with high priority to absorb large numbers of people. This option is in competition with expansions at Galaxy's Edge in both DHS and DLR, so it will be interesting to see what wins out.

Hi WDW Pro. Thanks for all of the info! I have a few questions.
1. What would be the plan for a star wars expansion? Would it be a new ride?
2. Whats Disney's plan for expansion at Hollywood Studios? Like are they doing the rumored Monsters Inc or Indy land?
3. Is it true Disney is considering having Ice Age replace Dinoland?
4. What other Fox properties could come to any of the Disney parks around the world except Avatar?

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Phew... there's a lot of things flying around in this thread. I'll bite on clarifying the one thing that is actually on topic - the ride itself.

So, the en vogue discussion is how is the ride actually performing? Reality is that is performing better than people feared, not as well as it should; but, practically speaking - better than most expected. Actually opening the ride to the public has provided some real world feedback that is helping solve some the gremlins on the software/programing side of things; but, that creates a new problem. Time management.

When the ride goes down with a "known" software issue is that has been previously encountered - the focus is on simply resetting it as fast as possible and getting it back online. When they encounter something new, they spend a little bit longer capturing as much data as they can while still trying to put it back into service. This information is funneled straight into additional test and adjust work that happens after hours.

Unfortunately, there's still the other side of running a ride that has to be addressed - the mechanical side of the house.

Every attraction has normal mechanical wear that happens from cycling an attraction. These are the types of things that routine maintenance during non-operational hopefully prevents and when the abnormal mechanical failure happens during operational hours -things get repaired and attractions are placed back into service. The more cycles an attraction puts in - the more maintenance is required.

So, the last month and a half has helped with one side of the operational coin (debugging) and made things harder on the other side of the same coin (mechanical maintenance) because there is only so many hours in a day. When you take "x" hours to have the ride operational to the public and then try to divide up the remaining hours between the "proactive" functions of making adjustments to prevent future issues (which usually mean cycling the ride even more) and "reactive" functions like replacing parts that mechanically are approaching their end of life or adjusting things that need periodic adjustment - you quickly run out of time. That's the dilemma that is being faced right now.

The boarding groups and their ability to get the ride either opened late or closed early are a way to combat the issue of the variability of a "busy day" causing a 10:00 PM close leading to a 12:00 AM last guest off the ride situation, which would lead to even less time for the test and adjust/maintenance battle to occur.

For those that followed Hagrid's woes, it's a very similar situation. Time management is everything.

I will say that the boarding group system is more fair in it's way of communicating this variability than what Universal did with simply cutting Hagrid's line at some arbitrary point. At least with the boarding group, there is a method of updating people and providing an expectation.

So, was opening the ride last month the right choice? For those that have been on it, I think the majority would say it was. For those that tried to get on; but, couldn't - their opinion would likely be different.

Time management is always difficult no matter what the medium is. While theme park attractions and video games are different beasts (unless you are at Universal Creative), Nintendo genius Shigeru Miyamoto has this famous quote about video game development: "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever". I thought about this quote while waiting in line for RotR. Currently the quality of the attraction is good. Delaying the attraction further wasn't going to make the quality any better as the ride is and was show ready. At best, it would've helped the operational challenges it is facing. Would an additional six months in test and adjust resolved all of it's woes? It's hard to say because the initial six month delay didn't get it from 0% reliability to 100%. The reason why the video game analogy went through my mind last month is because in today's era of game production, releasing products with 0 defects has long past. Post release software patches are the mechanism to address those these days. Long gone are the days of burning a rom to a cart and what ships on launch day is what the game will be forever. Some companies, like Nintendo, are much better at quality assurance than others (names withheld to protect the guilty).

With these thoughts in mind, I think the theme park landscape has shifted. The days of "unadvertised" soft opening attractions are gone. With the rise of instant information via InstaTubeGrams, word that an attraction being available in a soft opening would get out immediately as this form of social media is the modern day equivalent of the old methods of advertising. The ability for a theme park have something open to test while not providing some form of guarantee that you won't be able to ride is much harder when you simply didn't have to run advertisements or have "Opening Soon" on a park map. This is why I think Disney and Universal have shifted their tactics to this new form of a ride opening on a specific date whether it's 100% operationally ready or not. This new method of "patching" in operation stability after the official open really isn't any different than what would take place under soft opening in the past. It's just that the attraction is officially open.

As long as theme park world doesn't adopt the patching in actual content doesn't happen like the video game industry... that would be a bad situation. DLC rides are not something I ever want to see.

 

[A Noble Fish]

No it doesn't. Guests have two hours to get on the ride once their group is called. If the last groups are called two hours before park close, then you have guests who can enter the queue one minute before park close just the same as any other ride. Maybe it's not as many as those getting on Slinky or Falcon, but they're still there.

By your standard you would need to have the line completely empty at park close and another ride with a queue that takes two hours past park close to empty. Or one hour before and one hour after. Etc. Neither seems to be the case.

Falcon at HWS is a walk-on or near walk-on at park close. I wish the ride never got Fastpass+, the inevitable, wonky thing it is. People complain too much.

I laugh at the people waiting in two-hour lines for it in the morning. It's a great ride (not without its flaws) when you wait a reasonable amount of time for it!

 

[A Noble Fish]

Phew... there's a lot of things flying around in this thread. I'll bite on clarifying the one thing that is actually on topic - the ride itself.

So, the en vogue discussion is how is the ride actually performing? Reality is that is performing better than people feared, not as well as it should; but, practically speaking - better than most expected. Actually opening the ride to the public has provided some real world feedback that is helping solve some the gremlins on the software/programing side of things; but, that creates a new problem. Time management.

When the ride goes down with a "known" software issue is that has been previously encountered - the focus is on simply resetting it as fast as possible and getting it back online. When they encounter something new, they spend a little bit longer capturing as much data as they can while still trying to put it back into service. This information is funneled straight into additional test and adjust work that happens after hours.

Unfortunately, there's still the other side of running a ride that has to be addressed - the mechanical side of the house.

Every attraction has normal mechanical wear that happens from cycling an attraction. These are the types of things that routine maintenance during non-operational hopefully prevents and when the abnormal mechanical failure happens during operational hours -things get repaired and attractions are placed back into service. The more cycles an attraction puts in - the more maintenance is required.

So, the last month and a half has helped with one side of the operational coin (debugging) and made things harder on the other side of the same coin (mechanical maintenance) because there is only so many hours in a day. When you take "x" hours to have the ride operational to the public and then try to divide up the remaining hours between the "proactive" functions of making adjustments to prevent future issues (which usually mean cycling the ride even more) and "reactive" functions like replacing parts that mechanically are approaching their end of life or adjusting things that need periodic adjustment - you quickly run out of time. That's the dilemma that is being faced right now.

The boarding groups and their ability to get the ride either opened late or closed early are a way to combat the issue of the variability of a "busy day" causing a 10:00 PM close leading to a 12:00 AM last guest off the ride situation, which would lead to even less time for the test and adjust/maintenance battle to occur.

For those that followed Hagrid's woes, it's a very similar situation. Time management is everything.

I will say that the boarding group system is more fair in it's way of communicating this variability than what Universal did with simply cutting Hagrid's line at some arbitrary point. At least with the boarding group, there is a method of updating people and providing an expectation.

So, was opening the ride last month the right choice? For those that have been on it, I think the majority would say it was. For those that tried to get on; but, couldn't - their opinion would likely be different.

Time management is always difficult no matter what the medium is. While theme park attractions and video games are different beasts (unless you are at Universal Creative), Nintendo genius Shigeru Miyamoto has this famous quote about video game development: "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever". I thought about this quote while waiting in line for RotR. Currently the quality of the attraction is good. Delaying the attraction further wasn't going to make the quality any better as the ride is and was show ready. At best, it would've helped the operational challenges it is facing. Would an additional six months in test and adjust resolved all of it's woes? It's hard to say because the initial six month delay didn't get it from 0% reliability to 100%. The reason why the video game analogy went through my mind last month is because in today's era of game production, releasing products with 0 defects has long past. Post release software patches are the mechanism to address those these days. Long gone are the days of burning a rom to a cart and what ships on launch day is what the game will be forever. Some companies, like Nintendo, are much better at quality assurance than others (names withheld to protect the guilty).

With these thoughts in mind, I think the theme park landscape has shifted. The days of "unadvertised" soft opening attractions are gone. With the rise of instant information via InstaTubeGrams, word that an attraction being available in a soft opening would get out immediately as this form of social media is the modern day equivalent of the old methods of advertising. The ability for a theme park have something open to test while not providing some form of guarantee that you won't be able to ride is much harder when you simply didn't have to run advertisements or have "Opening Soon" on a park map. This is why I think Disney and Universal have shifted their tactics to this new form of a ride opening on a specific date whether it's 100% operationally ready or not. This new method of "patching" in operation stability after the official open really isn't any different than what would take place under soft opening in the past. It's just that the attraction is officially open.

As long as theme park world doesn't adopt the patching in actual content doesn't happen like the video game industry... that would be a bad situation. DLC rides are not something I ever want to see.

Nailed it!

 

[Parker in NYC]

Phew... there's a lot of things flying around in this thread. I'll bite on clarifying the one thing that is actually on topic - the ride itself.

So, the en vogue discussion is how is the ride actually performing? Reality is that is performing better than people feared, not as well as it should; but, practically speaking - better than most expected. Actually opening the ride to the public has provided some real world feedback that is helping solve some the gremlins on the software/programing side of things; but, that creates a new problem. Time management.

When the ride goes down with a "known" software issue is that has been previously encountered - the focus is on simply resetting it as fast as possible and getting it back online. When they encounter something new, they spend a little bit longer capturing as much data as they can while still trying to put it back into service. This information is funneled straight into additional test and adjust work that happens after hours.

Unfortunately, there's still the other side of running a ride that has to be addressed - the mechanical side of the house.

Every attraction has normal mechanical wear that happens from cycling an attraction. These are the types of things that routine maintenance during non-operational hopefully prevents and when the abnormal mechanical failure happens during operational hours -things get repaired and attractions are placed back into service. The more cycles an attraction puts in - the more maintenance is required.

So, the last month and a half has helped with one side of the operational coin (debugging) and made things harder on the other side of the same coin (mechanical maintenance) because there is only so many hours in a day. When you take "x" hours to have the ride operational to the public and then try to divide up the remaining hours between the "proactive" functions of making adjustments to prevent future issues (which usually mean cycling the ride even more) and "reactive" functions like replacing parts that mechanically are approaching their end of life or adjusting things that need periodic adjustment - you quickly run out of time. That's the dilemma that is being faced right now.

The boarding groups and their ability to get the ride either opened late or closed early are a way to combat the issue of the variability of a "busy day" causing a 10:00 PM close leading to a 12:00 AM last guest off the ride situation, which would lead to even less time for the test and adjust/maintenance battle to occur.

For those that followed Hagrid's woes, it's a very similar situation. Time management is everything.

I will say that the boarding group system is more fair in it's way of communicating this variability than what Universal did with simply cutting Hagrid's line at some arbitrary point. At least with the boarding group, there is a method of updating people and providing an expectation.

So, was opening the ride last month the right choice? For those that have been on it, I think the majority would say it was. For those that tried to get on; but, couldn't - their opinion would likely be different.

Time management is always difficult no matter what the medium is. While theme park attractions and video games are different beasts (unless you are at Universal Creative), Nintendo genius Shigeru Miyamoto has this famous quote about video game development: "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever". I thought about this quote while waiting in line for RotR. Currently the quality of the attraction is good. Delaying the attraction further wasn't going to make the quality any better as the ride is and was show ready. At best, it would've helped the operational challenges it is facing. Would an additional six months in test and adjust resolved all of it's woes? It's hard to say because the initial six month delay didn't get it from 0% reliability to 100%. The reason why the video game analogy went through my mind last month is because in today's era of game production, releasing products with 0 defects has long past. Post release software patches are the mechanism to address those these days. Long gone are the days of burning a rom to a cart and what ships on launch day is what the game will be forever. Some companies, like Nintendo, are much better at quality assurance than others (names withheld to protect the guilty).

With these thoughts in mind, I think the theme park landscape has shifted. The days of "unadvertised" soft opening attractions are gone. With the rise of instant information via InstaTubeGrams, word that an attraction being available in a soft opening would get out immediately as this form of social media is the modern day equivalent of the old methods of advertising. The ability for a theme park have something open to test while not providing some form of guarantee that you won't be able to ride is much harder when you simply didn't have to run advertisements or have "Opening Soon" on a park map. This is why I think Disney and Universal have shifted their tactics to this new form of a ride opening on a specific date whether it's 100% operationally ready or not. This new method of "patching" in operation stability after the official open really isn't any different than what would take place under soft opening in the past. It's just that the attraction is officially open.

As long as theme park world doesn't adopt the patching in actual content doesn't happen like the video game industry... that would be a bad situation. DLC rides are not something I ever want to see.

How is it operating better than expected? Disney didn't anticipate capacity. They had 4 years (maybe more?) to get this right and they failed. There is no reason in 2020 that this madness should be the norm. If the landscape has changed - which it has - Disney should roll with the punches. They advertised it all over the place, including trailers at the cinema! I am so grateful to have ridden it when I did, I can't imagine the angst I'd have for an upcoming trip. I've been going to Disney since the early 80s, for goodness sake. Why they weren't operating this a year before opening, at least (hello, Test Track), is beyond me.

Also, every time anyone compares Rise to Hagrid's, I want to remind them that this is DISNEY. They take eons to put an attraction together. I expect more, and I know I'm not the only one who does.

The only bright spot? It's the best darn attraction in decades, including those at TDS. Maybe that's why I'm more concerned about its operation.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

How is it operating better than expected?

Internally, they feared less RVs and less uptime and were surprised they could push capacity up as high as it has been. They even feared days when it wouldn't be operational at all. It's possible that may still happen if maintenance needs more time than what they are being provided after hours.

Disney didn't anticipate capacity.

They did. They tried... and failed. The plan was to have TSL and MMRR both operational. Of course this plan was flawed in that the took other capacity away to make this happen; but, that's a topic that's been beaten to death. If the implication is strictly RotR's capacity, go back to some of my earliest comments on SWL. The target for both attractions was in the 1600pph range. They are as they are designed. Why that is the case ties into other comments I made back in the early days of these projects. Modern E-tickets, rightly or wrongly, have an expected connotation of kinetically charged ride systems (*note - I don't agree with this statement; but, it is a reality). Unfortunately, there isn't much in Disney's arsenal of available options for RVs that can pump much more through an experience. An Omnimover or moving theater simply wasn't considered for SWL's showcase attractions. Shanghai's Pirates system is a good hybrid but a slow boat in SWL wasn't ever on the table. Coaster systems weren't seriously considered once the DL Tomorrowland option was shelved. The LPS system is the best fit they have unfortunately. Could they have made the RV's bigger, sure they could've made the a bit larger. That would've scaled up the hallways, the elevators, the motion platform. It's already complex enough; but, yes - they could've. Still, 1600pph isn't out of alignment with many Disney E-tickets of the modern. Of course, RotR isn't at 1600pph currently. Unfortunately, Imagineering is still suffering from losing the Robocoaster RV to Universal. It could've been a veritable Swiss Army Knife for anything they could dream up and still have Omnimover like capacity.

Also, every time anyone compares Rise to Hagrid's, I want to remind them that this is DISNEY. They take eons to put an attraction together. I expect more, and I know I'm not the only one who does.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Disney and Universal have both gotten away from the days of soft openings as a method to work out their operational issues. Disney's method with RotR is much better in my opinion to what Universal did this past summer. From day one with Rise, they allowed guests to do other things while waiting their time to return. They only on a few occasions couldn't get everyone they promised on the ride before the end of day. I'm not sure what more one could want at this point in time. Would the alternative of getting into a standby line for multiple hours with no promise of ever boarding be better only to get cleared out at the end of the day when the ride really does have to get repaired occurs?

I don't see many mentioning this; but, other than the boarding group situation - what Disney is doing here is the same as what occurred with their last E-ticket in Flight of Passage? Flight of Passage didn't have soft openings and had a grand opening date. It also suffered (and still does) with being unable to run at full capacity. The only difference was that because it is a screen based theater, you can keep the attraction open when one or more theaters are down. If you are waiting for all four of those doors to open on FoP, there are days when you won't see it happen. Rise can't do this unfortunately. It's a traditional dark ride style ride with everything going through one show building. If one part of that chain fails, the whole thing is 101 until it resets or is repaired. Be careful what you wish for as I think a return to traditional dark rides is what we all wanted.

If you want to fault what's going on with Rise on both coasts, the only thing you can really go after is that it being advertised as open and them not using the old methods of soft opening. *For EVERYONE reading this message - you've basically proven my point that with social media these days - either official or soft opening wouldn't make a difference to the message being delivered. You would know it was open and could ride just like anyone else that gets the message.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Falcon at HWS is a walk-on or near walk-on at park close. I wish the ride never got Fastpass+, the inevitable, wonky thing it is. People complain too much.

On average, most DHS rides become "walk-ons" near the end of the night due to the night shows in the park. MFSR goes down to 30 minutes, comparable to other attractions, even those with FP.

 

[A Noble Fish]

On average, most DHS rides become "walk-ons" near the end of the night due to the night shows in the park. MFSR goes down to 30 minutes, comparable to other attractions, even those with FP.

View attachment 443256

That seems to be very accurate actually. This is what planning smart entails, it doesn't even mean get Fastpasses 60 days in advance (I usually do it night before or up to a week ahead). Knowing where to eat, when to Standby queue rides, etc. are what separate amateurs from the experienced and is what makes a difference between having a decent time and a great one.

I feel bad for foreigners that think it is really easy to understand everything, and it's already hard enough, but Fastpass+ and 180-day reservations have made it hard for them. I wish more would look into the operations of the park because they would enjoy it more.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Internally, they feared less RVs and less uptime and were surprised they could push capacity up as high as it has been. They even feared days when it wouldn't be operational at all. It's possible that may still happen if maintenance needs more time than what they are being provided after hours.



They did. They tried... and failed. The plan was to have TSL and MMRR both operational. Of course this plan was flawed in that the took other capacity away to make this happen; but, that's a topic that's been beaten to death. If the implication is strictly RotR's capacity, go back to some of my earliest comments on SWL. The target for both attractions was in the 1600pph range. They are as they are designed. Why that is the case ties into other comments I made back in the early days of these projects. Modern E-tickets, rightly or wrongly, have an expected connotation of kinetically charged ride systems (*note - I don't agree with this statement; but, it is a reality). Unfortunately, there isn't much in Disney's arsenal of available options for RVs that can pump much more through an experience. An Omnimover or moving theater simply wasn't considered for SWL's showcase attractions. Shanghai's Pirates system is a good hybrid but a slow boat in SWL wasn't ever on the table. Coaster systems weren't seriously considered once the DL Tomorrowland option was shelved. The LPS system is the best fit they have unfortunately. Could they have made the RV's bigger, sure they could've made the a bit larger. That would've scaled up the hallways, the elevators, the motion platform. It's already complex enough; but, yes - they could've. Still, 1600pph isn't out of alignment with many Disney E-tickets of the modern. Of course, RotR isn't at 1600pph currently. Unfortunately, Imagineering is still suffering from losing the Robocoaster RV to Universal. It could've been a veritable Swiss Army Knife for anything they could dream up and still have Omnimover like capacity.



This is the point I'm trying to make. Disney and Universal have both gotten away from the days of soft openings as a method to work out their operational issues. Disney's method with RotR is much better in my opinion to what Universal did this past summer. From day one with Rise, they allowed guests to do other things while waiting their time to return. They only on a few occasions couldn't get everyone they promised on the ride before the end of day. I'm not sure what more one could want at this point in time. Would the alternative of getting into a standby line for multiple hours with no promise of ever boarding be better only to get cleared out at the end of the day when the ride really does have to get repaired occurs?

I don't see many mentioning this; but, other than the boarding group situation - what Disney is doing here is the same as what occurred with their last E-ticket in Flight of Passage? Flight of Passage didn't have soft openings and had a grand opening date. It also suffered (and still does) with being unable to run at full capacity. The only difference was that because it is a screen based theater, you can keep the attraction open when one or more theaters are down. If you are waiting for all four of those doors to open on FoP, there are days when you won't see it happen. Rise can't do this unfortunately. It's a traditional dark ride style ride with everything going through one show building. If one part of that chain fails, the whole thing is 101 until it resets or is repaired. Be careful what you wish for as I think a return to traditional dark rides is what we all wanted.

If you want to fault what's going on with Rise on both coasts, the only thing you can really go after is that it being advertised as open and them not using the old methods of soft opening. *For EVERYONE reading this message - you've basically proven my point that with social media these days - either official or soft opening wouldn't make a difference to the message being delivered. You would know it was open and could ride just like anyone else that gets the message.

Thank you for this and for your clarity (and patience).

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Thank you for this and for your clarity (and patience).

You are welcome and had good questions that I think needed covering again because information on this attraction goes back years and a lot of ground has been covered and a lot of conflicting information is out there.

As much as many of us would love to have modern versions of 1980's EPCOT Center attractions be the foundation for the future of what Parks offers - just with modern effects, Pandora's box (pun intended) got opened the first time thrill rides got put inside the gates. Guests love them and the issues of safely and reliably moving lots of people quickly around a real environment is just a very, very challenging nut to crack.

Speed + mass equals caution from an engineering perspective. Coasters are great at moving mass in a straight line. As history with coasters has taught us, when you add mass moving in more than one direction - you increase the dynamic forces. The choices are either to put it through the guests (which can be violent) or the RV system, which creates wear in the form of energy transference.

Take Arrow Dynamic's suspended coasters for example. A coaster that swings out on the curves is a fun experience; but, maintaining the stresses on the chassis and especially the welds for the supporting structure for the track takes a toll. Multiply the regular coaster dynamics (with basically 2 rails and 3 sets of wheels per rail) by 2 and then factor in another set of 2 for the additional rails and rack and pinion moving seats on a 4th Dimension coaster (like X2 at Magic Mountain) and you understand why they only sold 3 of them.

Rise's issues fortunately aren't as severe as being exponentially risky like an Arrow 4th Dimension; but, they are similar in the problem the ride has are the complexity. It really is a bit of most every RV system in the Disney playbook thrown into one attraction. Because it's in the form of a traditional dark ride, it's all linear and if any one of those integrations fail - the ride shuts down (from an RV perspective). It doesn't help that while the LPS technology isn't exactly new, it is something where Parks failure to use it extensively (especially in the US) means that there is still a lot of ground to cover in supporting it.

 

[skiir97]

You know, an opportunity to read some of the code, see how it is unit tested before applied to the ride, then tested with the ride.

Who says there are unit tests to even look at?