News Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance to begin Standby September 23rd

[MrPromey]

I explained my post in another post.

I know and in the "being able to eat protein once a week is a luxury for me" sense, I get what you're saying.*

But my point is, WDW these days is like the equivalent of paying for the steak but still only getting the potato most of the time.

For less than the price of a trip to WDW for a week and the cost to stay in the bungalows over the murky water of Seven Seas Lagoon next to the dock for the Ferry, most could do the real thing it is trying to imitate - that's what I'm talking about.

Disney has somehow fooled people into believing there is new higher value in things that are not new and never were of that high value even when they were new and often times, many of these things are now, frankly, in the worst state they've ever been in.

They're pushing Everest with a broken Yetti as luxury. They're pushing BTM with non-working old final lift hill effects and without the "new" effects like DL got way back in 2014 to replace them as luxury. They're pushing IASW with missing ceiling panels and carousel effects that have been down for years as luxury. They're pushing MK monorails shut down mid-day for cost savings as luxury.


*and that's not intended as an insult or an attack AT ALL at you - I'm in no way trying to offend. I'm just using that as an illustrative point in general.

 

[Chi84]

I know and in the "being able to eat protein once a week is a luxury for me" sense, I get what you're saying.*

But my point is, WDW these days is like the equivalent of paying for the steak but still only getting the potato most of the time.

For less than the price of a trip to WDW for a week and the cost to stay in the bungalows over the muddy water of Seven Seas Lagoon next to the dock for the Ferry most could do the real thing it is trying to imitate - that's what I'm talking about.


*and that's not intended as an insult or an attack AT ALL at you - I'm in no way trying to offend. I'm just using that as an illustrative point in general.

Honestly, if that's how people feel, why would they visit Disney? I still feel I'm getting good value for my money because WDW has it all for my family in a convenient location where we can be together, but still incorporate separate interests. For example, the year we went in October, the family unit that absolutely loves everything Halloween enjoyed the MK party and all the decorations. The foodies signed up for a couple of hands on demonstrations and tastings at Epcot. DH and I spent one day at Blizzard Beach with some of the group while the rest went on rides at MK. Transportation was never an issue - we didn't have to share cars. We probably spent half the time together (and dinner every night), and everyone had a fabulous time. There was always something for everyone to do - just not necessarily the same things every day.

If we were simply looking for luxury resort accommodations, we wouldn't go to WDW. And if we want to visit the "real thing," we know where to find it. Not everything is right for everyone, and I can certainly understand the frustration of those who look back on the Disney of old and wish it would come back or who are dismayed by the increase in costs. But if it gets to the point that I feel like I'm paying for steak and getting potato, I'll find another place to vacation.

 

[MrPromey]

Honestly, if that's how people feel, why would they visit Disney? I still feel I'm getting good value for my money because WDW has it all for my family in a convenient location where we can be together, but still incorporate separate interests. For example, the year we went in October, the family unit that absolutely loves everything Halloween enjoyed the MK party and all the decorations. The foodies signed up for a couple of hands on demonstrations and tastings at Epcot. DH and I spent one day at Blizzard Beach with some of the group while the rest went on rides at MK. Transportation was never an issue - we didn't have to share cars. We probably spent half the time together (and dinner every night), and everyone had a fabulous time. There was always something for everyone to do - just not necessarily the same things every day.

If we were simply looking for luxury resort accommodations, we wouldn't go to WDW. And if we want to visit the "real thing," we know where to find it. Not everything is right for everyone, and I can certainly understand the frustration of those who look back on the Disney of old and wish it would come back or who are dismayed by the increase in costs. But if it gets to the point that I feel like I'm paying for steak and getting potato, I'll find another place to vacation.

Okay, this!

This is an excellent articulation of your argument!

I have absolutely no rebuttal to anything you've expressed here at all as it pertains to your position.

Thank you for putting it into words that makes the personal value it holds for you clear.

The only thing I will say is that your argument highlights the issue I take with Disney which is that much of your position falls into the category of "personally priceless" which I feel the company has really begun to exploit (kind of like a funeral director steering you to the higher priced coffin for your loved one) because the only ceiling on "priceless" becomes the limit on people's credit cards - not to say that's you - but in general, which for the rest of us who don't hold it in the same regard, is bad news - that's what some people are describing as "scary", I think.

Maybe a better word than scary would be "depressing".

For me it's like Trader Joe's. I like Trader Joe's but... apparently not as much as some people and because of those particular people who discuss online when their local stores get deliveries, I can't get frozen butter chicken half the time because I'm apparently not committed enough. :/

Anyway, I am glad for you that Disney continues to bring such a positive experience for your family and I genuinely hope that neither they, by pushing to your potato moment, nor any of us b!tching and complaining over having hit ours ever does anything to change that for you.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would put DreamMore in Dollywood higher than Saratoga Springs! (no offense, it's just not my cup of tea)

The DreamMore is actually a very nice hotel, but needs another restaurant.

There are many hotels that staff at the appropriate levels and try to handle all needs/concerns

they don’t hire from a centralized pool that includes college kids looking to consume fluids (and exchange them) and international intern programs numbering in the 10-15,000 range at any given time

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly, if that's how people feel, why would they visit Disney? I still feel I'm getting good value for my money because WDW has it all for my family in a convenient location where we can be together, but still incorporate separate interests. For example, the year we went in October, the family unit that absolutely loves everything Halloween enjoyed the MK party and all the decorations. The foodies signed up for a couple of hands on demonstrations and tastings at Epcot. DH and I spent one day at Blizzard Beach with some of the group while the rest went on rides at MK. Transportation was never an issue - we didn't have to share cars. We probably spent half the time together (and dinner every night), and everyone had a fabulous time. There was always something for everyone to do - just not necessarily the same things every day.

If we were simply looking for luxury resort accommodations, we wouldn't go to WDW. And if we want to visit the "real thing," we know where to find it. Not everything is right for everyone, and I can certainly understand the frustration of those who look back on the Disney of old and wish it would come back or who are dismayed by the increase in costs. But if it gets to the point that I feel like I'm paying for steak and getting potato, I'll find another place to vacation.

Ok…so then you’d like to retract the “luxury destination” to mansion butler?

(trying to not get too wordy)

 

[Chi84]

Ok…so then you’d like to retract the “luxury destination” to mansion butler?

(trying to not get too wordy)

I think a lot of people consider it a luxury destination in terms of the entire experience, and some may even consider the resorts luxurious. I remember taking my now daughter-in-law for the first time and she had never stayed in a room as beautiful as the one in AK Lodge. I guess it all depends on your life experiences. So yes, I still think that a place that lets you see animals outside your room in the morning and fireworks from your balcony is a luxury destination. My comment to MrPromey was made entirely in the context of comparing WDW resorts to the Four Seasons - I concede the latter would be more luxurious if all you want is a resort.

 

[flynnibus]

Okay, I’m concerned because I generally like going to WDW. But, if I follow this to its conclusion, I could see one day not wanting to go anymore. That’s disappointing. But, if this is how enough people want to behave, then maybe the parks just won’t be for me in the future.

Nothing can be done about that, though.

Welcome to how many felt when people were happy to reserve rides months in advance and lock up their schedule or feel shat on.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think a lot of people consider it a luxury destination in terms of the entire experience, and some may even consider the resorts luxurious. I remember taking my now daughter-in-law for the first time and she had never stayed in a room as beautiful as the one in AK Lodge. I guess it all depends on your life experiences. So yes, I still think that a place that lets you see animals outside your room in the morning and fireworks from your balcony is a luxury destination. My comment to MrPromey was made entirely in the context of comparing WDW resorts to the Four Seasons - I concede the latter would be more luxurious if all you want is a resort.

It’s just not run to “luxury” standards. That’s a business assessment…not a “it feels that way to me” analysis.

I’m pretty much tired of the opinions…some are right some are definitively wrong. Like not taking vaccines when you’ve taken them all your life. Your feelings may be good (not you personally)…but your brain sucks (for those people).

it is a “luxury” to many if not most…including me frequently…but that doesn’t mean it is the qualify or offering to charge limitless amounts for what is ultimately aging amusements and food locations that they have chosen to do lower quality and standard on as they Jack them. So a luxury to an individual…but not objectively luxury by any stretch.

the Bobs suck…I got a lot of flack for saying that in Dis long ago (12 years) and plenty on the ivory tower for the last 4 here…

but my horse is gaining on the rail and she’s a strong finisher…

…translation: the Bobs do and will look like absolute as time moves on. Bad mistakes that didn’t take down the stock yesterday or today…but the game isn’t over.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

VIP tours aside*, that is not true.

That's about to be true but it isn't currently and hasn't been since they did away with ticket books (and cheap entry).

Please quit trying to normalize the money grab that hasn't even gone into effect yet.


*we know this group is small enough to not even be a consideration.

Of course it is true. Your base ticket has no guarantee of x number of rides or set wait times. They are base tickets. Want to get extra time in the park….pay a premium to stay on Disney properly for extra magic hours. Want to cut the line on certain rides, wake up early and book fast passes, and if you want a better shot, spend that money stay on property so you can pick your spots earlier than everyone else.

As to “normalizing” let me let you in on a secret…Disney is a business!!! The whole point of it is to make money. Not a single decision in a business is made to lose money. Even ones that are made to increase customer satisfaction are done to 1) maintain your customer base; 2) increase your current customer spending; or 3) increase your market share/customer numbers. As a shareholder that’s what I want Disney to to. As a fan of the parks that’s also what I want them to do. I want more options and better ability to control my time at the park. I will chose what i want and will be happy to pay for it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Okay, this!

This is an excellent articulation of your argument!

I have absolutely no rebuttal to anything you've expressed here at all as it pertains to your position.

Thank you for putting it into words that makes the personal value it holds for you clear.

The only thing I will say is that your argument highlights the issue I take with Disney which is that much of your position falls into the category of "personally priceless" which I feel the company has really begun to exploit (kind of like a funeral director steering you to the higher priced coffin for your loved one) because the only ceiling on "priceless" becomes the limit on people's credit cards - not to say that's you - but in general, which for the rest of us who don't hold it in the same regard, is bad news - that's what some people are describing as "scary", I think.

Maybe a better word than scary would be "depressing".

For me it's like Trader Joe's. I like Trader Joe's but... apparently not as much as some people and because of those particular people who discuss online when their local stores get deliveries, I can't get frozen butter chicken half the time because I'm not committed enough. :/

Anyway, I am glad for you that Disney continues to bring such a positive experience for your family and I genuinely hope that neither they, by pushing to your potato moment, nor any of us b!tching and complaining over having hit ours ever does anything to change that for you.

Ok…I officially have a crush on you after this

…anytime you can work the cult of Trader Joe’s into something…I’m down

 

[MrPromey]

Of course it is true. Your base ticket has no guarantee of x number of rides or set wait times. They are base tickets. Want to get extra time in the park….pay a premium to stay on Disney properly for extra magic hours. Want to cut the line on certain rides, wake up early and book fast passes, and if you want a better shot, spend that money stay on property so you can pick your spots earlier than everyone else.

As to “normalizing” let me let you in on a secret…Disney is a business!!! The whole point of it is to make money. Not a single decision in a business is made to lose money. Even ones that are made to increase customer satisfaction are done to 1) maintain your customer base; 2) increase your current customer spending; or 3) increase your market share/customer numbers. As a shareholder that’s what I want Disney to to. As a fan of the parks that’s also what I want them to do. I want more options and better ability to control my time at the park. I will chose what i want and will be happy to pay for it.

Thank you for letting me in on the "secret". A lesser person might consider your remark to make you look like a condescending jack- but not me. I value your great insight!

Thank you for explaining to me that Disney is a business and then going even a step further to explain how a business works.

Now that we've established that Disney is a business - again, thank you for that extraordinarily helpful analyses - I guess that would make people like me a customer, right?

Just checking because this is a whole new world of understanding for me.

Maybe we can have another conversation one day when and if they ever hit a price point for stale offerings with hoops you as a customer aren't so happy to pay for.

But again, thank you for the lesson - thank you so, so much!

 

[Chi84]

Okay, this!

This is an excellent articulation of your argument!

I have absolutely no rebuttal to anything you've expressed here at all as it pertains to your position.

Thank you for putting it into words that makes the personal value it holds for you clear.

The only thing I will say is that your argument highlights the issue I take with Disney which is that much of your position falls into the category of "personally priceless" which I feel the company has really begun to exploit (kind of like a funeral director steering you to the higher priced coffin for your loved one) because the only ceiling on "priceless" becomes the limit on people's credit cards - not to say that's you - but in general, which for the rest of us who don't hold it in the same regard, is bad news - that's what some people are describing as "scary", I think.

Maybe a better word than scary would be "depressing".

For me it's like Trader Joe's. I like Trader Joe's but... apparently not as much as some people and because of those particular people who discuss online when their local stores get deliveries, I can't get frozen butter chicken half the time because I'm not committed enough. :/

Anyway, I am glad for you that Disney continues to bring such a positive experience for your family and I genuinely hope that neither they, by pushing to your potato moment, nor any of us b!tching and complaining over having hit ours ever does anything to change that for you.

Thank you for your willingness to consider someone else’s experience. It’s a rare commodity here.

There’s no question that the company is not what it used to be and that it’s turned greedy and exploitative. The fault for that lies with the company and not the people visiting Disney. If it changes (and I hope it does) it will because the market as a whole rejects what the company is doing. It won’t be because a few people here are convinced to make decisions that result in making their vacation less enjoyable.

People who visit several times a year are saying that people who buy Boo Bash tickets are ruining Disney. People who buy Boo Bash tickets are claiming DVC owners are ruining Disney. DVC owners claim people who buy the dining plan are ruining Disney (actually that last one . . ). Anyway, you get the idea. Disney is responsible for its decisions. I’ll be very sorry if Disney is not around for my grandchildren to enjoy. But it won’t be because I paid to skip the wait at Rise.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Disney is handing so much business off to universal, sea world, and Knotts. It will be really interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[dreday3]

I'm sorry for a repeat question - did I read that Rat would also change to stand-by and IAS once Genie + starts?
Or will it continue to be the virtual queue process and IAS after Genie + starts?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Honestly, if that's how people feel, why would they visit Disney?

You're forgetting a basic tenant of human nature: people like to complain.

People complain about their spouse and yet remain married for decades.

People complain about their children and yet still love them dearly.

People complain about their jobs and yet stay.

People complain about their favorite sports team and yet faithfully follow them.

Why would Walt Disney World be any different?

 

[DCBaker]

I'm sorry for a repeat question - did I read that Rat would also change to stand-by and IAS once Genie + starts?
Or will it continue to be the virtual queue process and IAS after Genie + starts?

See here -

Rat is definitely opening with the VQ, and is then moving to Standby and IAS when Genie comes online.

 

[dreday3]

See here -

Thanks! So potentially, if Genie + up and running by 10/20, we can attempt a stand-by for Rat on our arrival day. Heading to Epcot that evening. I'm sure the line will be ridiculous, but you never know....

 

[Chi84]

You're forgetting a basic tenant of human nature: people like to complain.

People complain about their spouse and yet remain married for decades.

People complain about their children and yet still love them dearly.

People complain about their jobs and yet stay.

People complain about their favorite sports team and yet faithfully follow them.

Why would Walt Disney World be any different?

I didn't forget, but that's no reason to raise it to an art form.

I may have overstated when I said Disney has turned greedy and exploitative; they're probably no worse than other companies in the travel and entertainment industry. But there clearly has been a change in philosophy by the company in recent years.

It's not so much the complaining per se that I find unpalatable; it's more the unwarranted attacks on other guests for choosing how they spend their money at Disney. Absent some highly-coordinated economic boycott (unlikely), the only thing that will change the company's direction is the normal course of the free market. People will stop paying when the offerings no longer have the requisite value, for whatever reason. Even if every person on this site committed to not paying for Genie+ it would have no impact whatsoever.

I absolutely loved FP+ because it worked beautifully with the way my family vacations. But I understand that the system did not work well for others and had to change. I hope Genie+ turns out to be workable for us and that the paid rides are not consistently priced on the high end of the range. The one thing I won't do is stand in long lines all day every day at Disney simply because other posters here believe that system is the most fair to them. If I'm the only person who feels that way, I have no doubt Disney will change course again.

 

[RollerCoaster]

I meant it as away to close standby a hour or 2 before closing.

Disney historically has not closed lines early or close them if they reach a certain length. The one exception is single-rider lines.

Closing lines early, unless advertised, is generally considered a bad practice. I've waited out the line at closing for Flight of Passage plenty of times and often left the park 2 hours after the advertised closing time. Parks typically account for this in their employee scheduling and cast members seem enthusiastic to work the additional hours.

 

[RollerCoaster]

It remains to be seen how this shakes out but the problem in the past with the most popular attractions is that the majority of capacity went to fastpass so if you didn't manage to get those at the 60 day mark, you were out of luck.

Despite what some online bloggers claim the majority of the attraction capacity was never reserved for FP. In real-world operations sometimes the FP line would eat up more capacity in an hour than stand-by, but that would never be the plan.

Those who claim that 60-80 percent of capacity was allocated for FP distribution are wrong. If Disney actually distributed FP's for more than 50% of a ride's capacity then they would be creating operational problems they'd prefer to avoid. When you determine how many FPs can be distributed you have to account for unanticipated scenarios- downtime, periods of time when throughput unexpectedly falls, and each ride has to pick up the slack for other rides' downtime. You have to account for FPs that are distributed at guest relations or those that are given as a replacement when an attraction is down.