Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance opening reports and using Boarding Groups at Disneyland

[Purduevian]

Anyone who gets dumped from the queue gets a FP to return without a set window. Anyone who had a guaranteed boarding group but didn't get called gets one too for the next day.. but that isn't exercised much. The people dumped from the line tho.. is likely 300-400 people every time the ride breaks down for any period of time.

I accounted for those people in the math above:

This is a nice easy day as there was only 1 breakdowns. First, the ride ran from 9:15 to 2:10 calling groups 1 to 63. Meaning 6300 people were able to get in line for 4 hours and 55 minutes. In those 4 hours and 55 minutes, the ride could have gotten through 5,407 people. Leaving 893 people that had been called not ridden prior to the break down.

Some of those 900ish people would be in line and need to return later... Some would be in the park, but not able to enter the line due to the ride shutting down... but all 900ish still need to ride before the day is over.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Sustained by the unbridled desire for it... and the success of its execution as a ride. Hence, not really a winning horse in the "Disney is doing it wrong!" mission...

The beef will come 6-9months from now if Disney can't get the attraction operating with greater capacity.

I'm still curious about how attendance has been impacted by the ride at both parks. We keep seeing that this ride has a seemingly limitless demand, but it's not like that can actually be proven with how poor the capacity is.

 

[MisterPenguin]

We NEED to keep the tourists happy and have a great experience. The Boarding Group process is not going well with some of those tourists, and needs to be adjusted to keep those tourists happy, especially those at the top end of the spending average.

There is no magic system that will not leave a portion of tourists unhappy simply because not everyone can ride the ride. Any other system of determining who wins and who loses will leave the losers sorely complaining that that system is wrong and unfair.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I think my issue from a business and optics perspective is that telling guests, "oh, you should be happy/grateful with this" usually doesn't go very well. I saw that from experience whenever one of my CM friends would use a line like that.

The idea here is that the guests ARE ridiculous. They are entitled. They are planning a trip around one ride (hey, isn't that what this attraction was supposed to do in the first place????) and they are expecting to get their money's worth on a ride that honestly isn't worth it. But those same guests are the ones making Disney a lot of money.

But this is nothing new. People have always been and will continue to be difficult. I think my disappoint stems from how things have persisted despite the two months the DHS version has been running and Disney's experience in general.

I'm not sure I follow you. I feel like there is some narrative going around that does not exist.

The only complaints or issues coming out are from the usual Disneyland goer who's general way of working the park has been disrupted. I don't see anyone else online say it is not fair. Most of us tourists (like me) generally accept how the park runs these sort of things and adapt to that system.

I could care less if DisTwitter doesn't get on the ride for the 5th time... and I think tourists would rather have a shot at getting on it, then wasting their entire day in a 10 hour line, with the chance of not getting in. Like for real, for the tourist/casual visitor this is the best system. I wish I was visiting now. The chance to ride one of the best rides built, without the risk of not enjoying Disneyland.

The only people suffering are the locals who don't want to do anything else that day and just wait around bored.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Well then Disney should cap capacity and ensure all waits are enjoyable and managable... and we know that's not happening.

Cue the complaints from tourists who couldn't get a ticket that day and from locals who can't get APs any more.

Even that perfect system has losers. Tho, the people that do get in will have an amazingly high satisfaction rating.

Every system for which not everybody can do exactly what they want because of constraints of reality is going to have people complaining that "it's unfair!".

 

[Disney Analyst]

Cue the complaints from tourists who couldn't get a ticket that day and from locals who can't get APs any more.

Even that perfect system has losers. Tho, the people that do get in will have an amazingly high satisfaction rating.

Every system for which not everybody can do exactly what they want because of constraints of reality is going to have people complaining that "it's unfair!".

The reality is, there is always going to be groups who can't experience everything in one day. That is how the system has always worked. Whether fireworks get cancelled, rides shut down, or lines are too long.

 

[waltography]

I don't know what an entire generation of people have to do with it? If anything I think the Millennials are some of the most understanding and well-equipped with this sort of thing.

Second this; obviously anecdotal story here, but when I went a few Sundays ago during the awful day RotR had (only up to BG 81), it wasn't the millennials/Gen Z-ers who were shouting at the faces of the frontline CMs...

 

[truecoat]

They should put a cap on AP riders for ROTR for the near future. If you've ridden it this month, that's it. You can't come back multiple days in a row to ride it.

If the demand lessens or if boarding passes are available past the first hour then it's fair game. It would be a way for more people to ride it that haven't ridden it yet.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Second this; obviously anecdotal story here, but when I went a few Sundays ago during the awful day RotR had (only up to BG 81), it wasn't the millennials/Gen Z-ers who were shouting at the faces of the frontline CMs...

In my own anecdotal experience (in the service industry (restaurants) for 13+ years), and to be upfront, I am a millennial. But do you know who were the ones always causing a ruckus? Always needing to speak to me (when I was the manager)?

Gen X and Baby Boomers. Honestly I hate generational generalizations, as no one group is all the same... but honest to goodness they are the WORST at restaurants.

 

[flynnibus]

I accounted for those people in the math above:


Some of those 900ish people would be in line and need to return later... Some would be in the park, but not able to enter the line due to the ride shutting down... but all 900ish still need to ride before the day is over.

Your math only tries to account for people from the BGs that same day. FP returners can be from multiple days. Additionally, you don't know how many of those called were processed before the breakdown.. you're working with just a linear consumption assumption. You also don't know how many were in the queue, vs simply were eligible to board, but turned away. So computing how many were turned away vs given FPs is a crapshoot.

So we really don't have a reliable way of understanding how many FPs are out there based on downtime... It's cleaner to work on the assumption of 'the ride has X number of people in queue when maintaining an average 30min of people in the queue' and then count how many times the queue is dumped. You still don't know how many eligible riders in a BG window got on the ride vs being given FPs vs being simply turned away at the door. Because we are working on sliding time windows with a queue of people that includes not just the called groups, but the groups prior too, none of it is going to be reliable numbers.

The only real simple assumption is like you concluded at the end... how many BG slots were distributed vs theoretical operating time and capacity. But even that has big assumptions... we don't know how consistent the rph metric is yet.. and the entire thing misses how many returners there are outstanding.

Disney would know how many outstanding eligible returners are out there... plus the current queue condition. Hence they can release new return windows with good insight. We do not know the returner situation.. only how many BGs have not been called.

 

[Ismael Flores]

I think my issue from a business and optics perspective is that telling guests, "oh, you should be happy/grateful with this" usually doesn't go very well. I saw that from experience whenever one of my CM friends would use a line like that.

The idea here is that the guests ARE ridiculous. They are entitled. They are planning a trip around one ride (hey, isn't that what this attraction was supposed to do in the first place????) and they are expecting to get their money's worth on a ride that honestly isn't worth it. But those same guests are the ones making Disney a lot of money.

But this is nothing new. People have always been and will continue to be difficult. I think my disappoint stems from how things have persisted despite the two months the DHS version has been running and Disney's experience in general.

I think that most guests realize that there is always the possibility that they will not get to ride the new attraction. This is nothing new and has been the truth for attractions that have opened in previous years that required long wait times. Whether it had the virtual queue or not the possibility is there to not come close to riding it. I think they would be more upset if they got to the park and then got in a five hour or longer line and then found out they had just spent their whole day in line and the ride breaks down. Multi day guests have a better chance of riding so i am sure with the virtual line they will try everyday to get the pass just in case.

The issue with the virtual pass is not that they have it i think the only problem is the way it is being distributed. Having all the boarding groups become available at exactly the same time at first opening eliminates the chance to at least try for the pass for several guests that can not be up early in the morning to line up. I would think that most of those guests are families with children that require additional time to get ready and arrive at the gates. I would also add to the list many who are disabled and need the extra time to arrive so early in the morning.
Those 8 am openings that supposedly have people lining up since 7am have now become 5am wake up calls for those families so that they can get ready and hope to be at the park by 7.

 

[flynnibus]

The issue with the virtual pass is not that they have it i think the only problem is the way it is being distributed. Having all the boarding groups become available at exactly the same time at first opening eliminates the chance to at least try for the pass for several guests that can not be up early in the morning to line up. I would think that most of those guests are families with children that require additional time to get ready and arrive at the gates. I would also add to the list many who are disabled and need the extra time to arrive so early in the morning.
Those 8 am openings that supposedly have people lining up since 7am have now become 5am wake up calls for those families so that they can get ready and hope to be at the park by 7.

Again with all the hypothetical people who just "can't" do things...

If you told someone "hey, I will give you anything you desire... the only caveat is you need to get up 1hr earlier than you were planning to that day... are you in?" Who is going to say no?

Are there corner cases excluded... certainly. But no system is perfect.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I'm not sure I follow you. I feel like there is some narrative going around that does not exist.

The only complaints or issues coming out are from the usual Disneyland goer who's general way of working the park has been disrupted. I don't see anyone else online say it is not fair. Most of us tourists (like me) generally accept how the park runs these sort of things and adapt to that system.

I could care less if DisTwitter doesn't get on the ride for the 5th time... and I think tourists would rather have a shot at getting on it, then wasting their entire day in a 10 hour line, with the chance of not getting in. Like for real, for the tourist/casual visitor this is the best system. I wish I was visiting now. The chance to ride one of the best rides built, without the risk of not enjoying Disneyland.

The only people suffering are the locals who don't want to do anything else that day and just wait around bored.

My perspective is inevitably going to be different from most of yours, considering I was that front-line CM in front of Rise at Hollywood Studios on opening day explaining to 10 people/per minute that they just weren't going to get to ride. That continued until the day I left. I promise that the system is still not super well-known, and I've elaborated previously on the specific groups of people who end up more confused (foreigners, older guests, DAS). Disneyland did a much much much better job informing guests about the virtual queue, but even then, most of the friends I've asked who have been to Disneyland since Jan 17th did not get to ride because they didn't know about the VQ, because the system still in particular rewards Disney blog fans and people who spend way too much time planning their trips. That itself is another argument, and wow I've done a lot of talking about this because I realize this conversation can go a million different ways

 

[DarkMetroid567]

They should put a cap on AP riders for ROTR for the near future. If you've ridden it this month, that's it. You can't come back multiple days in a row to ride it.

If the demand lessens or if boarding passes are available past the first hour then it's fair game. It would be a way for more people to ride it that haven't ridden it yet.

APs would lose their minds

like I know they all constantly threaten to not renew, but like, I feel like they legit wouldn't if that happened

 

[truecoat]

APs would lose their minds

like I know they all constantly threaten to not renew, but like, I feel like they legit wouldn't if that happened

I'd add multi day passes to this theoretical limit.

 

[Disney Analyst]

My perspective is inevitably going to be different from most of yours, considering I was that front-line CM in front of Rise at Hollywood Studios on opening day explaining to 10 people/per minute that they just weren't going to get to ride. That continued until the day I left. I promise that the system is still not super well-known, and I've elaborated previously on the specific groups of people who end up more confused (foreigners, older guests, DAS). Disneyland did a much much much better job informing guests about the virtual queue, but even then, most of the friends I've asked who have been to Disneyland since Jan 17th did not get to ride because they didn't know about the VQ, because the system still in particular rewards Disney blog fans and people who spend way too much time planning their trips. That itself is another argument, and wow I've done a lot of talking about this because I realize this conversation can go a million different ways

I mean, DHS didn't handle it well the first few weeks. There was zero information opening day, and they didn't really finalize the system until weeks in. So very different scenario from Disneyland, which is what I am discussing in this forum.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Leaked: **CCTV footage of Disneyland City Hall CM listening to a customer complain about not getting on RotR and demanding their money back.**

Additional Footage:

 

[flynnibus]

My perspective is inevitably going to be different from most of yours, considering I was that front-line CM in front of Rise at Hollywood Studios on opening day explaining to 10 people/per minute that they just weren't going to get to ride. That continued until the day I left. I promise that the system is still not super well-known, and I've elaborated previously on the specific groups of people who end up more confused (foreigners, older guests, DAS).

But this is a different dynamic. What you outline here is basically the 'always' happening crowd of people being turned away from the full length of the day as people realize 'the only way to ride is through this BG system'. Each of those people you talked to, were then informed, and later could then make their own decision on if they want to work to get a BG.

That is completely different from this group of people who sold a kidney to get to DL, show up at rope drop, don't get a BG, and then are put in purgatory for the rest of their trip. Or that's the image being projected.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I mean, DHS didn't handle it well the first few weeks. There was zero information opening day, and they didn't really finalize the system until weeks in. So very different scenario from Disneyland, which is what I am discussing in this forum.

The issues I'm talking about are the non-unique ones, though. Yeah, it was horrible, we found out about Virtual Queue about 2 hours before we unofficially opened, so it was especially bad then. But even as we got into a good flow of things around Christmas, the same issues persisted. I'm just saying that it's dangerous to assume the virtual queue is such common knowledge. I've seen almost all (anecdotal) evidence point to the opposite.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

But this is a different dynamic. What you outline here is basically the 'always' happening crowd of people being turned away from the full length of the day as people realize 'the only way to ride is through this BG system'. Each of those people you talked to, were then informed, and later could then make their own decision on if they want to work to get a BG.

That is completely different from this group of people who sold a kidney to get to DL, show up at rope drop, don't get a BG, and then are put in purgatory for the rest of their trip. Or that's the image being projected.

You're right, I've conflated on this topic in particular. I can basically just say then that the purgatory is still a bummer after BGs go real quick.