Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance opening reports and using Boarding Groups at Disneyland

[RobWDW1971]

The issues I'm talking about are the non-unique ones, though. Yeah, it was horrible, we found out about Virtual Queue about 2 hours before we unofficially opened, so it was especially bad then. But even as we got into a good flow of things around Christmas, the same issues persisted. I'm just saying that it's dangerous to assume the virtual queue is such common knowledge. I've seen almost all (anecdotal) evidence point to the opposite.

I would argue the vast majority have no idea what we’re talking about. When I was at HS recently there were so many confused guests who had never heard of any of this and that resort requires much more planning than a historical day trip amusement park like DL.

If this was happening for a new attraction at Knott’s, Universal, or Magic Mountain for example, I would have no clue and would just be showing up a couple hours after opening like always and go “what?!”.

Assuming the millions of people who go to DL know about these things in detail I think is just not accurate and reflects the bubble we are in.

And Disney intentionally NOT advertising that you must be in the park before opening to ride only drives that confusion.

 

[Purduevian]

Your math only tries to account for people from the BGs that same day. FP returners can be from multiple days. Additionally, you don't know how many of those called were processed before the breakdown.. you're working with just a linear consumption assumption. You also don't know how many were in the queue, vs simply were eligible to board, but turned away. So computing how many were turned away vs given FPs is a crapshoot.

So we really don't have a reliable way of understanding how many FPs are out there based on downtime... It's cleaner to work on the assumption of 'the ride has X number of people in queue when maintaining an average 30min of people in the queue' and then count how many times the queue is dumped. You still don't know how many eligible riders in a BG window got on the ride vs being given FPs vs being simply turned away at the door. Because we are working on sliding time windows with a queue of people that includes not just the called groups, but the groups prior too, none of it is going to be reliable numbers.

The only real simple assumption is like you concluded at the end... how many BG slots were distributed vs theoretical operating time and capacity. But even that has big assumptions... we don't know how consistent the rph metric is yet.. and the entire thing misses how many returners there are outstanding.

Disney would know how many outstanding eligible returners are out there... plus the current queue condition. Hence they can release new return windows with good insight. We do not know the returner situation.. only how many BGs have not been called.

I see your issue. I misunderstood how the fastpasses worked for a line dump. I thought they had to be used same day. IF the fastpasses had to be used same day, it wouldn't matter how many were turned away vs how many were in the dumped line. Since they are multi-day, you are correct that there is no way to actually know how late the ride is staying open or how many people it is actually processing each day.

 

[disneygeek90]

I would argue the vast majority have no idea what we’re talking about. When I was at HS recently there were so many confused guests who had never heard of any of this and that resort requires much more planning than a historical day trip amusement park like DL.

If this was happening for a new attraction at Knott’s, Universal, or Magic Mountain for example, I would have no clue and would just be showing up a couple hours after opening like always and go “what?!”.

Assuming the millions of people who go to DL know about these things in detail I think is just not accurate and reflects the bubble we are in.

And Disney intentionally NOT advertising that you must be in the park before opening to ride only drives that confusion.

People need to do their research when planning vacations. That means going on message boards, calling Disney, asking people that have experience, etc.

I wouldn't book a flight to France, show up to the Eiffel Tower mid-day and then get mad that tours were booked weeks ago. I have no idea if you have to book tickets in advance for the Eiffel Tower, but if I was planning a trip and that was on my "must do" list you better believe I would be verifying what the process is before I show up.

 

[flynnibus]

I would argue the vast majority have no idea what we’re talking about. When I was at HS recently there were so many confused guests who had never heard of any of this and that resort requires much more planning than a historical day trip amusement park like DL.

And most probably showed up with no idea what attractions were even in the park.. or were wondering where that pirates ride was..

You can't fix everything.. but you can point those people in the right direction. I don't think Disney has been withholding anything from the guests since the system went live. Will many be clueless... yes. Will they be empowered to become informed... yes. Will many stay clueless? Yes.. but none of this is new

 

[RobWDW1971]

Yes.. but none of this is new

To be fair, having to arrive before the park’s opening time to ride a new ride is new and has never been the case for 60+ years.

 

[flynnibus]

I see your issue. I misunderstood how the fastpasses worked for a line dump. I thought they had to be used same day. IF the fastpasses had to be used same day, it wouldn't matter how many were turned away vs how many were in the dumped line. Since they are multi-day, you are correct that there is no way to actually know how late the ride is staying open or how many people it is actually processing each day.

I believe the FP for line dumps is intended for same day.. but it still matters. Your math that simply counts based on the BG called at the time of closure does not account for the sliding window effect of who is really in the queue. The queue has its own latency. It can have people in it from prior boarding groups, the current called BGs, and returners. When the ride goes down 10 minutes after BG 50 is called.. you really don't have (1100/6) 183 people from BG 50 serviced by the ride after it breaks down. You likely didn't have any BG 50 people serviced because of the line's own latency. And you don't know how many BGs were eligible to be in the queue without looking at each window in its own because the rate, number, and timing of group recall varies. This is why I pointed out the issues with the math to count how many people were displaced by a ride stop based on BGs vs when it stopped. It's not reliable math. The best thing to look at from a scale perspective is how many riders the ride has (potentially) serviced vs the total pool of riders (best you can).

The whole point of the exercise is to show there is a backup of riders outstanding beyond the simple BG numbers called. Computing how many of those are outstanding is best served by just knowing that a rider can only ride once.. and assuming the attraction is working through a fixed # of riders for every timeslot the ride is operating. We don't care why the rider is eligible, we can streamline it to only care if they rode yet or not.. and assume everyone will ride within their eligible window.

 

[Phroobar]

People need to do their research when planning vacations. That means going on message boards, calling Disney, asking people that have experience, etc.

I wouldn't book a flight to France, show up to the Eiffel Tower mid-day and then get mad that tours were booked weeks ago. I have no idea if you have to book tickets in advance for the Eiffel Tower, but if I was planning a trip and that was on my "must do" list you better believe I would be verifying what the process is before I show up.

No they don't. They need to make plans for logging, transportation and maybe restaurants but they should never have to make a reservation to ride the carousel at an amusement park. The Eiffel Tower or other tour guided thing is not a single ride in an amusement park. They have a set number of tours that you need to prepay to be part of. One should not have to play a lottery on the day of to ride the carousel.

 

[flynnibus]

To be fair, having to arrive before the park’s opening time to ride a new ride is new and has never been the case for 60+ years.

When you copy text out of context - you throw away it's meaning.

What is 'not new' is the idea that guests need to be informed if they want to get the best out of their experience.

When an uninformed guest misses F! because they didn't know you should have camped out an hour before showtime... they still had a crappy experience. Or their kid couldn't see the castle during fireworks because they didn't know or plan ahead.. the net result is the same.

Lack of planning can lead to missing out. This is not new.

And 'but they could have waited in standby...' argument really is just a technicality. When a line is 4+hrs... that excludes most people.

 

[RobWDW1971]

When you copy text out of context - you throw away it's meaning.

What is 'not new' is the idea that guests need to be informed if they want to get the best out of their experience.

When an uninformed guest misses F! because they didn't know you should have camped out an hour before showtime... they still had a crappy experience. Or their kid couldn't see the castle during fireworks because they didn't know or plan ahead.. the net result is the same.

Lack of planning can lead to missing out.

Of course, don’t disagree that planning is always good, but to pretend like this is normal procedure when the park has not operated like this for 60+ years and Disney is not making a concerted effort to broadly communicate that change is just being disingenuous.

Disney is screaming “Now Open!” - No asterisk, no “arrive before opening to have a chance”, no “please call X or visit Disney.com for reservation details”.

I get the position of “you didn’t research on a message board so it sucks to be you”, but that’s not a way to run a mass market business.

 

[disneygeek90]

No they don't. They need to make plans for logging, transportation and maybe restaurants but they should never have to make a reservation to ride the carousel at an amusement park. The Eiffel Tower or other tour guided thing is not a single ride in an amusement park. They have a set number of tours that you need to prepay to be part of. One should not have to play a lottery on the day of to ride the carousel.

I'm not arguing if the boarding group is "fair" or not, rather that there's no reason someone should be uninformed about the process if they did the bare minimum research beforehand.

 

[flynnibus]

Of course, don’t disagree that planning is always good, but to pretend like this is normal procedure when the park has not operated like this for 60+ years and Disney is not making a concerted effort to broadly communicate that change is just being disingenuous.

Disney is screaming “Now Open!” - No asterisk, no “arrive before opening to have a chance”, no “please call X or visit Disney.com for reservation details”.

I get the position of “you didn’t research on a message board so it sucks to be you”, but that’s not a way to run a mass market business.

See my F! and fireworks examples. Just being a willing customer does not guarantee you access to everything. Yes the BG procedure is 'new' - the idea of 'do your homework' is not new.

 

[RobWDW1971]

See my F! and fireworks examples. Just being a willing customer does not guarantee you access to everything. Yes the BG procedure is 'new' - the idea of 'do your homework' is not new.

We’re talking past each other as I’m not saying planning is new.

That was not really the point of that post about Disney intentionally not communicating a critical operational change. From your response, I can only assume you are countering my position and that you believe they are handling the communication well (if not I don’t know what we’re talking about).

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Nighttime entertainment that is ticketed like Fantasmic or World of Color is still accessible for standby viewing.

 

[flynnibus]

We’re talking past each other as I’m not saying planning is new.

That was not really the point of that post about Disney intentionally not communicating a critical operational change. From your response, I can only assume you are countering my position and that you believe they are handling the communication well (if not I don’t know what we’re talking about).

I think they are.. what specifically makes you think they are not?

It's right on the webpage for the ride - https://disneyland.disney.go.com/attractions/disneyland/star-wars-rise-of-the-resistance/
It's literally the first thing you see when you open the disneyland app
They have handouts on it in the parks
They have a specific 'know before you go' page for all of SW:GE
It's been covered by the local newspapers... it's been covered by TV...
It's all over the internet...

If you are bent about Disney not telling you WHEN you need to be there to be successful.. again when have they done that elsewhere? They don't publish when you should line up for an AP exclusive.. they don't publish what is a good time to grab the prime fireworks spot.. Disney doesn't publish that if you want that exclusive FP or ADR at WDW you need to be RIGHT THERE at 7am on your eligible day, etc.

 

[Sailor310]

I just logged on to the Disneyland site. It took several clicks to get to RoR. All it had was, "There may be times when Guests may be required to join a virtual queue to experience the new Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance attraction. " I couldn't find any more detail- even in FAQ-other than 'your ticket doesn't guarantee access to the ride.'

Oops! I didn't click through enough. "Join a virtual queue" was in blue. I didn't click on it. If you do, you get--

Experiencing Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance
There may be times when Guests may be required to join a virtual queue to experience the new Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance attraction.

The virtual queue is not a physical line, so you can enjoy the rest of Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge and Disneyland Park until it is your turn to experience Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance.
After entering Disneyland Park, you can request to join the virtual queue and will be assigned a boarding group, either with the Disneyland app or at select locations within the park.
Guests may join the virtual queue starting at the published opening time for the day at Disneyland Park. Guests may be assigned to a “backup” boarding group. Backup boarding groups are only called if all previous boarding groups have been called and there is extra capacity for additional Guests.
You will be able to join one boarding group per day.
You can check the app and in-park signs to see which boarding group is currently being admitted to Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance.
Admission into Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance is subject to capacity. Being assigned to a boarding group does not guarantee entrance to the attraction.

They had much more than I had thought. If you read between the lines, you could guess that you have to have " entered Disneyland Park"
before "the published opening time for the day".

 

[RobWDW1971]

I think they are.. what specifically makes you think they are not?

It's right on the webpage for the ride - https://disneyland.disney.go.com/attractions/disneyland/star-wars-rise-of-the-resistance/
It's literally the first thing you see when you open the disneyland app
They have handouts on it in the parks
They have a specific 'know before you go' page for all of SW:GE
It's been covered by the local newspapers... it's been covered by TV...
It's all over the internet...

If you are bent about Disney not telling you WHEN you need to be there to be successful.. again when have they done that elsewhere? They don't publish when you should line up for an AP exclusive.. they don't publish what is a good time to grab the prime fireworks spot.. Disney doesn't publish that if you want that exclusive FP or ADR at WDW you need to be RIGHT THERE at 7am on your eligible day, etc.

Then your position is Disney is appropriately letting the masses know that to have any chance to ride the marquee ride you must be in the park before the posted opening. Understood.

 

[flynnibus]

Then your position is Disney is appropriately letting the masses know that to have any chance to ride the marquee ride you must be in the park before the posted opening. Understood.

Now prove your standard is practical and consistent with other expectations of Disneyland guests... I await your outline

 

[RobWDW1971]

Now prove your standard is practical and consistent with other expectations of Disneyland guests... I await your outline

Not sure why you’re angry with me - you think what they are doing is enough. Great.

At the risk of further incurring your apparent hostility on this issue - they way they handled the communication last year regarding the reservations required to book a time to enter Batuu was much more clear and broadly communicated directly by Disney in their marketing materials. I’ve yet to see any Disney marketing or even press release indicating you MUST be in the park prior to posted opening time to have a chance to ride the ride.

Apparently you have seen that from them or think it’s fine they don’t say that - fully understood. We disagree.

 

[flynnibus]

Not sure why you’re angry with me

I'm not. I'm saying make a convincing argument. Not simply cross your arms and pout and say "it should be.. because!"

I’ve yet to see any Disney marketing or even press release indicating you MUST be in the park prior to posted opening time to have a chance to ride the ride.

That's because that's a false statement. That is what is being required these days to beat the crowd. It is not a requirement by Disney. Just like there is no requirement to line up before the parade time... or before Fireworks.. etc.. but if you want to succeed, there is more than what the company tells you. This hasn't changed... and isn't new. The only thing different is the particular effort needed to succeed. And that as I've pointed out repeatedly... is not an expectation guests should have of the company based on past performance or convention.

Just the very idea of 'a virtual queue' should tell you 'something is different..' and spark further inquiry. If not... Disney can't hold your hand and wipe your butt too.

 

[flynnibus]

I just logged on to the Disneyland site. It took several clicks to get to RoR. All it had was, "There may be times when Guests may be required to join a virtual queue to experience the new Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance attraction. " I couldn't find any more detail- even in FAQ-other than 'your ticket doesn't guarantee access to the ride.'

RoTR is on the front page of the site.. you click on it.. you get the page that references the virtual queue.. you click on it, you get taken to this page

Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge Tips & Information

Add even more magic to your visit with this unique experience at Disneyland Resort.

disneyland.disney.go.com

"
There may be times when Guests may be required to join a virtual queue to experience the new Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance attraction.

The virtual queue is not a physical line, so you can enjoy the rest of Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge and Disneyland Park until it is your turn to experience Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance.

After entering Disneyland Park, you can request to join the virtual queue and will be assigned a boarding group, either with the Disneyland app or at select locations within the park.

Guests may join the virtual queue starting at the published opening time for the day at Disneyland Park. Guests may be assigned to a “backup” boarding group. Backup boarding groups are only called if all previous boarding groups have been called and there is extra capacity for additional Guests.

You will be able to join one boarding group per day.

You can check the app and in-park signs to see which boarding group is currently being admitted to Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance.

Admission into Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance is subject to capacity. Being assigned to a boarding group does not guarantee entrance to the attraction."