Star Wars Land

[danlb_2000]

Soon we will have objective metrics by which to compare. I think you may be underestimating the cultural significance of Star Wars.

How do you objectively measure anticipation and buzz?

 

[Festivus]

I don't understand why it's a sure thing because of JJ Abrams. He's not as great as people are making out. He's defintitely successful, but not Star Wars epically big. And I'm talking content, not box office. If anyone read his take on Superman with the script he wrote, I'm not sold on what he can do with Star Wars. Star Trek were two good films. Nothing revolutionary as a Beatles reunion. The material would have to be epic.

Now if this was Joss Whedon we might have a conversation. If anyone has seen Serenity or Firefly, you'd know he is perfect for Star Wars.

For the sake of adding my 2 cents, as time goes on and I let the selection of JJ sink in, I am increasingly concerned of just how E7 may turn out. I hope it doesn't turn into "JJ Abrams Presents: SW: E7", the way Star Trek has turned out with him creating his own JJ ST alternate dimension. In non-JJ Trek, every time the crew found themselves in an alternate dimension/reality/timeline they always wound up back in the original Trek reality. That being said, the only satisfying completion to the JJ Trek is if his version completely implodes and we end up back in the original Trek reality.

Another problem I have with JJ is his overuse of highly emotional scenes that he must think is original, but really are very cliched. For example, MI3 and Phillip Seymore Hoffman's 10 count on Tom Cruise's girlfriend, and oh by the way she's not really dead that was another woman in a mask, cliche and predictable. Another example, ST, Kirk's father, of course, saves the day by killing himself while little JTK is born, how horribly tragic and predictable. One more example, ST:ID, the riff on the Kirk/Spock death scene from ST2:WOK. I couldn't believe that he was actually repeating the Spock death scene in reverse, I almost laughs out loud. With all the other Wrath of Khan references in the film, like we couldn't figure out Bones would get inspiration for reviving Kirk using Khan's super blood from the magical resurrection of a tribble. So predictable and hackish. The only thing I really enjoyed in that film was Cumberpatch, who did a fantastic job.

I was really hoping for someone other than JJ. To me he's a Spielberg wanna be. I was really hoping for Frank Darabont, but I don't think he was on anyone's radar at Lucasfilm.

One more thing, regarding SW canon and the assumption out there on the Internet that E7 will somehow involve the children of Leia and Han Solo. Presuming Leia has been instructed in the ways of the Jedi by Luke and she is a Jedi, there is no way she could married to Han Solo and no way she could have children. Yes, E6 ends with Han and Leia presumably involved in a romantic relationship, but it also, however, makes a point of Luke telling Leia she in time will learn to use the Force as Luke has. I'm interested to see how they handle this, if at all. If it is E7, then it is a continuation of the Skywalker storyline. If she is married to Solo with adult children and grandchildren to boot, but she is also a Jedi, then the whole series has jumped the shark.

Oh we'll, that's my 2 cents...

 

[danlb_2000]

For the sake of adding my 2 cents, as time goes on and I let the selection of JJ sink in, I am increasingly concerned of just how E7 may turn out. I hope it doesn't turn into "JJ Abrams Presents: SW: E7", the way Star Trek has turned out with him creating his own JJ ST alternate dimension. In non-JJ Trek, every time the crew found themselves in an alternate dimension/reality/timeline they always wound up back in the original Trek reality. That being said, the only satisfying completion to the JJ Trek is if his version completely implodes and we end up back in the original Trek reality.

Another problem I have with JJ is his overuse of highly emotional scenes that he must think is original, but really are very cliched. For example, MI3 and Phillip Seymore Hoffman's 10 count on Tom Cruise's girlfriend, and oh by the way she's not really dead that was another woman in a mask, cliche and predictable. Another example, ST, Kirk's father, of course, saves the day by killing himself while little JTK is born, how horribly tragic and predictable. One more example, ST:ID, the riff on the Kirk/Spock death scene from ST2:WOK. I couldn't believe that he was actually repeating the Spock death scene in reverse, I almost laughs out loud. With all the other Wrath of Khan references in the film, like we couldn't figure out Bones would get inspiration for reviving Kirk using Khan's super blood from the magical resurrection of a tribble. So predictable and hackish. The only thing I really enjoyed in that film was Cumberpatch, who did a fantastic job.

I was really hoping for someone other than JJ. To me he's a Spielberg wanna be. I was really hoping for Frank Darabont, but I don't think he was on anyone's radar at Lucasfilm.

One more thing, regarding SW canon and the assumption out there on the Internet that E7 will somehow involve the children of Leia and Han Solo. Presuming Leia has been instructed in the ways of the Jedi by Luke and she is a Jedi, there is no way she could married to Han Solo and no way she could have children. Yes, E6 ends with Han and Leia presumably involved in a romantic relationship, but it also, however, makes a point of Luke telling Leia she in time will learn to use the Force as Luke has. I'm interested to see how they handle this, if at all. If it is E7, then it is a continuation of the Skywalker storyline. If she is married to Solo with adult children and grandchildren to boot, but she is also a Jedi, then the whole series has jumped the shark.

Oh we'll, that's my 2 cents...

I think the alternate timeline in trek was a great idea. I am not sure who's idea it was to do a re-boot but I would assume it wasn't JJ's. Once that decision was made, I think alternate timeline was a no brainer otherwise you would have to deal with fans pointing out every little discrepancy in the story, this totally avoids that problem.

As for the Leia marrying Han, I wouldn't have a problem with this. If it became Luke's job to re-build the Jedi he may have decided to dispense with the "no attachments" thing and take the Jedi in a new direction.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

One more thing, regarding SW canon and the assumption out there on the Internet that E7 will somehow involve the children of Leia and Han Solo. Presuming Leia has been instructed in the ways of the Jedi by Luke and she is a Jedi, there is no way she could married to Han Solo and no way she could have children. Yes, E6 ends with Han and Leia presumably involved in a romantic relationship, but it also, however, makes a point of Luke telling Leia she in time will learn to use the Force as Luke has. I'm interested to see how they handle this, if at all. If it is E7, then it is a continuation of the Skywalker storyline. If she is married to Solo with adult children and grandchildren to boot, but she is also a Jedi, then the whole series has jumped the shark.

Oh we'll, that's my 2 cents...

Thinking the Empire is gone, Leia will opt not to become a Jedi, but a wife and mother instead. However, it turns out the Sith were not eliminated when the Two died...there was another power, more hidden, more menacing and seditious still.

Belatedly, an aging Luke now teaches the chidren (boy and girl) of Han and Leia the ways of the force....

 

[Festivus]

Thinking the Empire is gone, Leia will opt not to become a Jedi, but a wife and mother instead. However, it turns out the Sith were not eliminated when the Two died...there was another power, more hidden, more menacing and seditious still.

Belatedly, an aging Luke now teaches the chidren (boy and girl) of Han and Leia the ways of the force....

Entirely possible, I just hope they hold true to the Jedi rules. Anakin started down the Sith path in his forbidden relationship with Padme and ultimately became Darth Vader to save the woman he loved from death.

 

[jt04]

How do you objectively measure anticipation and buzz?

I am talking about box office numbers and ratings as now compiled by IMDB and RT. All sorts of metrics.

 

[lebeau]

How do you objectively measure anticipation and buzz?

I think jt is referring to the sure-to-be-record-breaking box office. He's planning to take credit for predicting something as obvious as the sun coming up in the morning.

One more example, ST:ID, the riff on the Kirk/Spock death scene from ST2:WOK. I couldn't believe that he was actually repeating the Spock death scene in reverse, I almost laughs out loud. With all the other Wrath of Khan references in the film, like we couldn't figure out Bones would get inspiration for reviving Kirk using Khan's super blood from the magical resurrection of a tribble. So predictable and hackish. The only thing I really enjoyed in that film was Cumberpatch, who did a fantastic job.

I was really hoping for someone other than JJ. To me he's a Spielberg wanna be.

Totally agree. That scene in ST:ID was such a massive mis-step. I could not believe what I was seeing. And to follow it up with resurrection by Tribble was adding insult to injury. Hopefully, it is a result of Abrams just not understanding Trek.

 

[lebeau]

Entirely possible, I just hope they hold true to the Jedi rules. Anakin started down the Sith path in his forbidden relationship with Padme and ultimately became Darth Vader to save the woman he loved from death.

I don't really expect Abrams to draw within the lines. But frankly, I always thought Lucas did a horrible job of defining the rules of the Jedi anyway. So I don't have any problem with them being redefined.

For example, how many people did Luke kill before Jedi? He blew up the freaking Death Star. But in Jedi, he can't even defend himself or he'll turn into Darth Vader. Uh what?

 

[danlb_2000]

I am talking about box office numbers and ratings as now compiled by IMDB and RT. All sorts of metrics.

Ah, ok. The conversation was originally about how much buzz the movie would get compared to EP1. Buzz does not necessarily correlate to box office numbers.

I think jt is referring to the sure-to-be-record-breaking box office. He's planning to take credit for predicting something as obvious as the sun coming up in the morning.

I am going to go way out on a limb here and predict that Disney will release a whole line of toys for Episode VII, people will call me crazy but I tell you it will happen.

 

[Festivus]

I think the alternate timeline in trek was a great idea. I am not sure who's idea it was to do a re-boot but I would assume it wasn't JJ's. Once that decision was made, I think alternate timeline was a no brainer otherwise you would have to deal with fans pointing out every little discrepancy in the story, this totally avoids that problem.

As for the Leia marrying Han, I wouldn't have a problem with this. If it became Luke's job to re-build the Jedi he may have decided to dispense with the "no attachments" thing and take the Jedi in a new direction.

Not a fan of the alternate reality, IMHO. I will forever refer to it as "JJ Trek".

I'm not sure what to think about Han/Leia, but I wouldn't think Luke would change the rules. That's kind of like the Catholic Church doing a flip flop on their catechism. Ghostly Yoda would be none too happy...

 

[jt04]

huh?



Whedon is awesome. Star Wars is awesome. Whedon + Star Wars = Mind Blown

But he's probably better suited to Avengers, so I'll be happy to have him working his magic there.

(I bet WB is kicking themselves for not making his Wonder Woman movie a few years back.)

Holy cow. I thought you were making a serious-minded attempt to explain the relevance of Star Wars' cultural significance and legacy and as it turns out you just have a beef with the director they hired.

It is so hard not to become cynical. LoL.

 

[jt04]

I think jt is referring to the sure-to-be-record-breaking box office. He's planning to take credit for predicting something as obvious as the sun coming up in the morning.

Actually I predicted it would break all box office records. That is rather specific. That is if they get at least two of the original stars and a decent script is written.

 

[lebeau]

I'm not sure what to think about Han/Leia, but I wouldn't think Luke would change the rules. That's kind of like the Catholic Church doing a flip flop on their catechism. Ghostly Yoda would be none too happy...

I am trying really hard not to make jokes comparing the Jedi order to the Catholic Church. Beware younglings! (Sorry. If it helps, my kid just had her First Communion.)

Holy cow. I thought you were making a serious-minded attempt to explain the relevance of Star Wars' cultural significance and legacy and as it turns out you just have a beef with the director they hired.

It is so hard not to become cynical. LoL.

How you drew that conclusion from me being a Whedon fan is beyond me. Your mind is a mystery as ever.

I also stated that Abrams is probably the best man for the job. But that conflicts with the conclusion you jumped to. So I can see why you would ignore it.

Do not give in to the cynical side of the Force, young padiwan.

 

[lebeau]

Actually I predicted it would break all box office records. That is rather specific. That is if they get at least two of the original stars and a decent script is written.

I doubt many people will bet against that. I certainly wouldn't.

 

[jt04]

I doubt many people will bet against that. I certainly wouldn't.

Glad I have brought you around to my point of view. Star Wars has the potential to reclaim the magic. I am not sure The Beatles did. Just to bring the comparison to a fitting conclusion.

 

[Festivus]

I don't really expect Abrams to draw within the lines. But frankly, I always thought Lucas did a horrible job of defining the rules of the Jedi anyway. So I don't have any problem with them being redefined.

For example, how many people did Luke kill before Jedi? He blew up the freaking Death Star. But in Jedi, he can't even defend himself or he'll turn into Darth Vader. Uh what?

It depends how JJ decides to draw outside the lines. I expect him to follow the storyline. The prequels were flawed but clearly established a set rules within that universe. Jedi's cannot have attachment, there can only be 2 Sith; master and apprentice, etc. It's so early in the development process that speculation and rumor rule at this point.

Your Death Star point is valid. The only way I can explain a defense for Luke having killed all those people is Luke was a member of the Rebelion during a time if war and blew up a weapon that had already destroyed an entire planet and was about to destroy a populated moon. The people aboard the Death Star were hardly innocent.

As far as Luke not killing Vader in Jedi, I will chalk that up to a filmmakers choice to use the symbolism of Luke's robotic hand, how and why he lost it in Empire (being rash and impatient before his training was complete), to show Luke he had started down the dark path and payed for it, like his father and his fate could be the same if he killed Vader. Much like how Anakin killed Mace Windu.

 

[Reddog]

there can only be 2 Sith; master and apprentice,

This never made sense to me. I know they established that there was a lot of infighting among the Sith so that's why there are only 2. But they act like if you can manipulate the Force, you have to become a Sith if you want to be evil. Like there's an angry Padawan sitting around saying "Man, I got so much anger and hatred in me...I just want to force choke my mother. If one of those Darth guys bites it, she better watch out."

 

[RTeker]

how about this for a ride or something, full sim single cockpit ride/game based off of the old X-wing vs TIE Fighter pc game. you get a squadron of pilots for both sides, you get to choose Rebel or Imp unless one side gets full.

 

[lebeau]

This never made sense to me. I know they established that there was a lot of infighting among the Sith so that's why there are only 2. But they act like if you can manipulate the Force, you have to become a Sith if you want to be evil. Like there's an angry Padawan sitting around saying "Man, I got so much anger and hatred in me...I just want to force choke my mother. If one of those Darth guys bites it, she better watch out."

It depends how JJ decides to draw outside the lines. I expect him to follow the storyline. The prequels were flawed but clearly established a set rules within that universe. Jedi's cannot have attachment, there can only be 2 Sith; master and apprentice, etc. It's so early in the development process that speculation and rumor rule at this point.

Your Death Star point is valid. The only way I can explain a defense for Luke having killed all those people is Luke was a member of the Rebelion during a time if war and blew up a weapon that had already destroyed an entire planet and was about to destroy a populated moon. The people aboard the Death Star were hardly innocent.

As far as Luke not killing Vader in Jedi, I will chalk that up to a filmmakers choice to use the symbolism of Luke's robotic hand, how and why he lost it in Empire (being rash and impatient before his training was complete), to show Luke he had started down the dark path and payed for it, like his father and his fate could be the same if he killed Vader. Much like how Anakin killed Mace Windu.

They can throw out any and all rules established in the prequels. None of them made any sense. Midichlorons (or whatever) should never be mentioned again. The 2-person Sith was equally laughable.

Even within Jedi, Luke killed a lot of people on Jabba's skiff without giving it much thought. How many stormtroopers did her kill over the course of the series? But all the sudden his hands are tied when he is facing the two most evil people in the universe?

Made no sense.

 

[danlb_2000]

how about this for a ride or something, full sim single cockpit ride/game based off of the old X-wing vs TIE Fighter pc game. you get a squadron of pilots for both sides, you get to choose Rebel or Imp unless one side gets full.

Cool idea, but it would be a capacity nightmare.