News Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge - Historical Construction/Impressions

[Disney Irish]

Thanks @Disney Irish. For the record, I really doubt they’re actually doing anything in Texas. This was just my comment on what they could do if they were doing such a thing.

I agree, I also have doubts about this rumor, but if both are in consideration for future projects it makes sense if both are related to each other.

 

[Professortango1]

I just laugh when people claim its the timeline that hinders the land. As if seeing a guy walk around as Kylo with Stormtroopers is all that different from seeing a guy dressed as Vader with Stormtroopers. The problem is the land was designed to have a kinetic third attraction which was cut, roaming droids which were cut, stages throughout with live actor interactions which were cut, roaming aliens in makeup which were cut, multiple missions for SR which were are finally getting 1 alternate mission, and a lack of land interactivity. I don't care about what characters are in Diagons Alley. I just like walking around and discovering so much to see and experience. I see kids using their wands to unlock features. I get to see different shows play out. I can explore a variety of shops that all feel in-world and different from one another and not hidden behind pay walls. I can buy a Wizards robe and actually wear it in the park.

I don't agree with JK on a lot, but her assessment that Disney wouldn't be able to live up to her standards seems apt considering they saw what Universal did, decided to copy it, and still missed just about every aspect that made Wizarding World successful.

 

[mickEblu]

I just laugh when people claim its the timeline that hinders the land. As if seeing a guy walk around as Kylo with Stormtroopers is all that different from seeing a guy dressed as Vader with Stormtroopers. The problem is the land was designed to have a kinetic third attraction which was cut, roaming droids which were cut, stages throughout with live actor interactions which were cut, roaming aliens in makeup which were cut, multiple missions for SR which were are finally getting 1 alternate mission, and a lack of land interactivity. I don't care about what characters are in Diagons Alley. I just like walking around and discovering so much to see and experience. I see kids using their wands to unlock features. I get to see different shows play out. I can explore a variety of shops that all feel in-world and different from one another and not hidden behind pay walls. I can buy a Wizards robe and actually wear it in the park.

I don't agree with JK on a lot, but her assessment that Disney wouldn't be able to live up to her standards seems apt considering they saw what Universal did, decided to copy it, and still missed just about every aspect that made Wizarding World successful.

You did a good job summarizing what the land is lacking but it also absolutely needs more of an OT greatest hits presence. But not just OT, more core Star Wars elements in general. No iconic music. Two (show) lightsabers in the whole land (in ROTR). No lightsaber duels. No mention of the Force. No Yoda. No C-3PO.

Star Wars is different than Potter. Potters worlds are more whimsical and lend themselves to a theme park setting. They re also IMO easier to execute. Star Wars is more about the characters and the elements I mentioned above. Most of the worlds in Star Wars are harsh, aesthetically unpleasant places or hard to replicate in a theme park space. So if you don’t have the recognizable locales, most of the fan favorite characters and you re light on the integral elements (lightsabers, the force, droids, music etc) what are you left with?

With all of this said I was at Star Wars Land last night and it has definitely grown on me. It needs all the stuff we have pointed out but aesthetically it has grown on me. I also think comparing it to other recent projects has definitely worked in its favor.

 

[Professortango1]

You did a good job summarizing what the land is lacking but it also absolutely needs more of an OT greatest hits presence. But not just OT, more core Star Wars elements in general. No iconic music. Two (show) lightsaber in the whole land (in ROTR). No lightsaber duels. No mention of the Force. No Yoda. No C-3PO.

Star Wars is different than Potter. Potters worlds are more whimsical and lend themselves to a theme park setting. They re also IMO easier to execute. Star Wars is more about the characters and the elements I mentioned above. Most of the worlds in Star Wars are harsh, aesthetically unpleasant places or hard to replicate in a theme park space. So if you don’t have the recognizable locales, most of the fan favorite characters and you te light on the integral elements (lightsabers, the force, droids, music etc) what are you left with?

With all of this said I was at Star Wars Land last night and it has definitely grown on me. It needs all the stuff we have pointed out but aesthetically it has grown on me. I also think comparing it to other recent projects has definitely worked in its favor.

I think I can survive without ever seeing C-3PO again. Adding him to Star Tours was one of the reasons I cannot stand the new iteration of the ride. Not a big Yoda fan either.

I don't watch Star Wars for the characters. The characters are thin archetypes at best. I watch Star Wars for escapism and the world. I don't need to see Luke any more than I need to see Rey. I just need to have interesting interactions built into the land.

I would love to see a cranky old man Luke doing Jedi Academy and giving sass to kids. Because that is an interesting dynamic and invites comedy and easy conflict vs having some overy optimistic and bland master.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think I can survive without ever seeing C-3PO again. Adding him to Star Tours was one of the reasons I cannot stand the new iteration of the ride. Not a big Yoda fan either.

I don't watch Star Wars for the characters. The characters are thin archetypes at best. I watch Star Wars for escapism and the world. I don't need to see Luke any more than I need to see Rey. I just need to have interesting interactions built into the land.

I would love to see a cranky old man Luke doing Jedi Academy and giving sass to kids. Because that is an interesting dynamic and invites comedy and easy conflict vs having some overy optimistic and bland master.

In my time on this planet I don't think I've ever heard the words "I don't watch Star Wars for the characters" ever uttered. I know plenty that don't like Star Wars, and even they view it as a character driven franchise. So not sure why that would be your view on the franchise.

I hope you realize you're in the extreme minority on that one bud.

 

[mickEblu]

I think I can survive without ever seeing C-3PO again. Adding him to Star Tours was one of the reasons I cannot stand the new iteration of the ride. Not a big Yoda fan either.

I don't watch Star Wars for the characters. The characters are thin archetypes at best. I watch Star Wars for escapism and the world. I don't need to see Luke any more than I need to see Rey. I just need to have interesting interactions built into the land.

I would love to see a cranky old man Luke doing Jedi Academy and giving sass to kids. Because that is an interesting dynamic and invites comedy and easy conflict vs having some overy optimistic and bland master.

Haha the cranky old Luke show could be funny but i wouldn’t say it’s at the top of the priority list. In general though I think you re way of thinking and things you like/ dislike are in the small minority.

 

[Professortango1]

In my time on this planet I don't think I've ever heard the words "I don't watch Star Wars for the characters" ever uttered. I know plenty that don't like Star Wars, and even they view it as a character driven franchise. So not sure why that would be your view on the franchise.

I hope you realize you're in the extreme minority on that one bud.

I think it's a common understanding. The Joseph Campbell roots of the screenplay are well known. The bad Lucas dialogue has been spoken about by every lead actor.

It's why a Solo movie doesn't work without Ford. The actors are the draw, not the detailed characters. I teach my students about Stock Characters and Star Wars is often the definition of these 2-dimensional characters. From the elderly martial arts master to the Black Knight to the Rogue to the Aristocratic Twit that it threepeeo. That's what the world is.

That's why people liked Empire and Last Jedi, it elevated the material and gave these things characters dimension.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think it's a common understanding. The Joseph Campbell roots of the screenplay are well known. The bad Lucas dialogue has been spoken about by every lead actor.

It's why a Solo movie doesn't work without Ford. The actors are the draw, not the detailed characters. I teach my students about Stock Characters and Star Wars is often the definition of these 2-dimensional characters. From the elderly martial arts master to the Black Knight to the Rogue to the Aristocratic Twit that it threepeeo. That's what the world is.

That's why people liked Empire and Last Jedi, it elevated the material and gave these things characters dimension.

I'm fairly confident if you ask a regular fan, not one who is a cinephile or theater kid, you'll have almost zero say they watch Star Wars for anything but the characters and the action.

 

[Professortango1]

I'm fairly confident if you ask a regular fan, not one who is a cinephile or theater kid, you'll have almost zero say they watch Star Wars for anything but the characters and the action.

And they'd say the same about Fast and the Furious. Doesn't mean that having Dom walk around Fast and the Furious Supercharged's queue will suddenly make the ride good.

I love Indiana Jones, but I also don't pretend he's a great fully-developed character. There's a reason they need to put him in the same outfit every film, because the look of the character carries more of the weight than the writing of the character. But I like that pulp hero archtype and like the action in the first two films, so I go along with it for the fun. But I also know that talking to Indy in Adventureland won't give me much, because its not who he is or what he says that makes him interesting. Same with Luke, Han, Chewie, R2D2, Rey, Poe, etc. That's why Kylo stood out for me in Force Awakens and Luke stood out for me in Last Jedi. They did something where I just wanted to watch these characters rather than see two action figures smash into each other.

 

[mickEblu]

That's why Kylo stood out for me in Force Awakens and Luke stood out for me in Last Jedi. They did something where I just wanted to watch these characters rather than see two action figures smash into each other.

I agree with you here in respect to the movies. I think Kylo is much more interesting than Vader and Luke even if slightly annoying is more interesting in Last Jedi but when it comes to the theme parks they have to go with the most iconic versions of the characters for meet n greets or on rides where we pass by them in two seconds. The character arcs aren’t important in the theme park medium.

 

[Disney Irish]

And they'd say the same about Fast and the Furious. Doesn't mean that having Dom walk around Fast and the Furious Supercharged's queue will suddenly make the ride good.

I love Indiana Jones, but I also don't pretend he's a great fully-developed character. There's a reason they need to put him in the same outfit every film, because the look of the character carries more of the weight than the writing of the character. But I like that pulp hero archtype and like the action in the first two films, so I go along with it for the fun. But I also know that talking to Indy in Adventureland won't give me much, because its not who he is or what he says that makes him interesting. Same with Luke, Han, Chewie, R2D2, Rey, Poe, etc. That's why Kylo stood out for me in Force Awakens and Luke stood out for me in Last Jedi. They did something where I just wanted to watch these characters rather than see two action figures smash into each other.

No one is watching Star Wars and expecting Citizen Cane. So I'm not sure why you're discounting what a majority of fans say about the franchise. Its a popcorn flick Saturday afternoon serial movie franchise, always as been.

You just have to accept that you're in the minority compared to what a majority of fans like about the franchise.

 

[Professortango1]

No one is watching Star Wars and expecting Citizen Cane. So I'm not sure why you're discounting what a majority of fans say about the franchise. Its a popcorn flick Saturday afternoon serial movie franchise, always as been.

You just have to accept that you're in the minority compared to what a majority of fans like about the franchise.

I'm just speaking from my perspective as a theme park attendee. While many do enjoy meet and greets, I do not. Meet and Greets isn't what made Wizarding World blow up. It was what the characters do in the land.

So I don't care if it is Luke or Finn, or old Luke, or Obi-Wan. Or an unnamed citizen of Batuu. The Star Wars characters aren't interesting enough to just exist as a form of entertainment. They need to do something. I go to Olivanders to see the show, not to glimpse Olivander. I watch the show with the Andrew Sisters-type motif not because I like them as characters, but because they are entertaining.

My initial point was that the majority of the public doesn't care which character is allowing them to live vicariously through them in the land, they just want something to actually experience. And Stormtroopers walking around and occasionally roasting guests isn't cutting it.

And its not like Disney doens't know this either. They studied Ghost Town Alive for a reason. An entire summer day-long show that exists with characters not drawn from a movie or book. They also have gifted actors playing their interactive villains at Oogie Boogie. They know what it takes to make the land better. Heck, the plans are already drawn up for the original iteration of the land. Timeline doesn't matter, WHAT we get to see and do, not WHO, matters most to guests.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm just speaking from my perspective as a theme park attendee. While many do enjoy meet and greets, I do not. Meet and Greets isn't what made Wizarding World blow up. It was what the characters do in the land.

So I don't care if it is Luke or Finn, or old Luke, or Obi-Wan. Or an unnamed citizen of Batuu. The Star Wars characters aren't interesting enough to just exist as a form of entertainment. They need to do something. I go to Olivanders to see the show, not to glimpse Olivander. I watch the show with the Andrew Sisters-type motif not because I like them as characters, but because they are entertaining.

I understand this is from your perspective, I'm just saying you have to realize that you're in the minority as a majority are into Star Wars for the characters.

My initial point was that the majority of the public doesn't care which character is allowing them to live vicariously through them in the land, they just want something to actually experience. And Stormtroopers walking around and occasionally roasting guests isn't cutting it.

And its not like Disney doens't know this either. They studied Ghost Town Alive for a reason. An entire summer day-long show that exists with characters not drawn from a movie or book. They also have gifted actors playing their interactive villains at Oogie Boogie. They know what it takes to make the land better. Heck, the plans are already drawn up for the original iteration of the land. Timeline doesn't matter, WHAT we get to see and do, not WHO, matters most to guests.

I'm sorry but do you really think that general public would rather go on an adventure in the land with an unnamed Batuu citizen over Luke or Han? Are you serious right now?

 

[mickEblu]

I understand this is from your perspective, I'm just saying you have to realize that you're in the minority as a majority are into Star Wars for the characters.


I'm sorry but do you really think that general public would rather go on an adventure in the land with an unnamed Batuu citizen over Luke or Han? Are you serious right now?

Speak for yourself. I’m a huge Vi Moradi fan

 

[Disney Irish]

Speak for yourself. I’m a huge Vi Moradi fan

I bet you had to look up her name.

 

[Professortango1]

I understand this is from your perspective, I'm just saying you have to realize that you're in the minority as a majority are into Star Wars for the characters.


I'm sorry but do you really think that general public would rather go on an adventure in the land with an unnamed Batuu citizen over Luke or Han? Are you serious right now?

I think the interaction and gameplay/show elements are far more important to average theme park guests than what character is facilitating that.

Ghost Town Alive kind of proves that. People just want to have fun. I work in Immersive Theatre and I know what generally works well with guests and what doesn't. A good friend of mine keeps stealing the show at a very popular immersive experience right now, and not because he is the main character, but because he's found a lot of gameplay and interaction to have guests take part in.

Sure, if you're talking strictly meet and greets, then the characters matter since are basically just standing around and taking pictures with some slight interaction. But a stunt show or interactive play with missions, yeah...the audience just wants an engaging actor and fun story beats to effect and discover. Original unnamed characters offer a lot more possibilities than pre-established ones as well in regards to building a story or daily interactions. Get too many named characters and you get the Star Wars Christmas special. Suddenly we're running errands for Luke and Han to get presents for Chewie instead of helping a lowly droid mechanic with a fun personality and cool interactions.

When casting an interactive Gaston, your casting department is limited and your writing for interactive gameplay is tied down to the knowns of that character and world. When casting for the local saloon owner or shopkeeper with a secret, you can cast the most talented people in the room and have far more freedom to create. And at the end of the day, guests just want a fun unique experience.

 

[mickEblu]

I bet you had to look up her name.

I didn’t and I’m ashamed of that.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think the interaction and gameplay/show elements are far more important to average theme park guests than what character is facilitating that.

Ghost Town Alive kind of proves that. People just want to have fun. I work in Immersive Theatre and I know what generally works well with guests and what doesn't. A good friend of mine keeps stealing the show at a very popular immersive experience right now, and not because he is the main character, but because he's found a lot of gameplay and interaction to have guests take part in.

Sure, if you're talking strictly meet and greets, then the characters matter since are basically just standing around and taking pictures with some slight interaction. But a stunt show or interactive play with missions, yeah...the audience just wants an engaging actor and fun story beats to effect and discover. Original unnamed characters offer a lot more possibilities than pre-established ones as well in regards to building a story or daily interactions. Get too many named characters and you get the Star Wars Christmas special. Suddenly we're running errands for Luke and Han to get presents for Chewie instead of helping a lowly droid mechanic with a fun personality and cool interactions.

When casting an interactive Gaston, your casting department is limited and your writing for interactive gameplay is tied down to the knowns of that character and world. When casting for the local saloon owner or shopkeeper with a secret, you can cast the most talented people in the room and have far more freedom to create. And at the end of the day, guests just want a fun unique experience.

This goes way beyond M&Gs, and this isn't about what you personally would choose for yourself. You're comparing a non-IP driven interactive experience to one of the largest franchises in the world. No offense to your experience, and I'm sure its immense, the two do not compare. Of course an engaging actor will make the difference in any experience, especially a non-IP driven experience. But again if you ask a regular person, especially a SW fan, from the general public if they rather go on an interactive adventure with Han and Luke or some random citizen from Batuu or even Mick's favorite Vi, I'll bet you my entire life savings they will pick Han and Luke every single time without question and twice on Sundays.

 

[Professortango1]

This goes way beyond M&Gs, and this isn't about what you personally would choose for yourself. You're comparing a non-IP driven interactive experience to one of the largest franchises in the world. No offense to your experience, and I'm sure its immense, the two do not compare. Of course an engaging actor will make the difference in any experience, especially a non-IP driven experience. But again if you ask a regular person, especially a SW fan, from the general public if they rather go on an interactive adventure with Han and Luke or some random citizen from Batuu or even Mick's favorite Vi, I'll bet you my entire life savings they will pick Han and Luke every single time without question and twice on Sundays.

If I asked a guest, they can say a variety of things. But guests don't design guest experiences, because they typically don't know what actually makes for the best experiences. I'm sure guests would tell you they want a Star Wars coaster that goes through Sleeping Beauty's castle, doesn't mean that is what would appease Disney guests most in the end.

There's a reason Beetlejuice isn't the most beloved character at the Beetlejuice Immersive Experience. Aside from trying to fill the shoes of a giant who the public reveres, it doesn't make good gameplay and interaction. Period. Guests want to feel like they have an active role. They want to be the one to accomplish something. If you're helping out Han or Poe, you get the feeling its like playing chess with your uncle when you're 5. They're letting you get some wins.

Helping out original characters of differing abilities and skills gives the public the opportunity to become the star or a key player, what most guests want in an interactive experience. Sure, you can have a hero moment where doing something unlocks a scene or interaction with a known legendary character, but meeting them and getting that interaction is the reward, not the activity.

What guests respond to and seek out in immersive environments and theme park type spaces has been studied and refined . It is a known data. Data that they took part in testing and collecting for both Batuu and the Starcruiser. I've worked with creatives from both.

 

[mickEblu]

This goes way beyond M&Gs, and this isn't about what you personally would choose for yourself. You're comparing a non-IP driven interactive experience to one of the largest franchises in the world. No offense to your experience, and I'm sure its immense, the two do not compare. Of course an engaging actor will make the difference in any experience, especially a non-IP driven experience. But again if you ask a regular person, especially a SW fan, from the general public if they rather go on an interactive adventure with Han and Luke or some random citizen from Batuu or even Mick's favorite Vi, I'll bet you my entire life savings they will pick Han and Luke every single time without question and twice on Sundays.

Not only the general public. Even if you asked people here IMO. You re adding another layer of complexity asking imagineers to come up with an engaging original character. But doesn’t make much sense to begin with because you’re dealing with one of the most popular franchises of all time with a treasure of trove of popular characters. I understand with human being characters that have Aged that will be an issue but the work around is going with popular costumed/ masked characters/ aliens/ droids. Or for example if you went with an Xwing trench run coaster you could hear Luke’s voice over the speakers.

Now I know we wouldn’t have Rex if the imagineers listened to me but imagineering is rarely a one size fits all sort of deal. Sometimes things work and they tend to work better when geniuses like George Lucas and Tony Baxter are at the helm. Also having one droid on a ride is different than a 14 acre land. Also in the original Star Tours you essentially had the most iconic scene in the whole saga as the climax.