News Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge - Historical Construction/Impressions

[Disney Irish]

I'm not sure what you hope to gain by stating the same things over and over again.

If I asked a guest, they can say a variety of things. But guests don't design guest experiences, because they typically don't know what actually makes for the best experiences. I'm sure guests would tell you they want a Star Wars coaster that goes through Sleeping Beauty's castle, doesn't mean that is what would appease Disney guests most in the end.

There's a reason Beetlejuice isn't the most beloved character at the Beetlejuice Immersive Experience. Aside from trying to fill the shoes of a giant who the public reveres, it doesn't make good gameplay and interaction. Period. Guests want to feel like they have an active role. They want to be the one to accomplish something. If you're helping out Han or Poe, you get the feeling its like playing chess with your uncle when you're 5. They're letting you get some wins.

Helping out original characters of differing abilities and skills gives the public the opportunity to become the star or a key player, what most guests want in an interactive experience. Sure, you can have a hero moment where doing something unlocks a scene or interaction with a known legendary character, but meeting them and getting that interaction is the reward, not the activity.

What guests respond to and seek out in immersive environments and theme park type spaces has been studied and refined . It is a known data. Data that they took part in testing and collecting for both Batuu and the Starcruiser. I've worked with creatives from both.

I understand your point-of-view I just disagree with it. And you stating the same thing over again doesn't convince me you're right either. I appreciate your experience in this realm, but I just think you're wrong in regards to SWs that guests wouldn't rather have an adventure with Han and Luke versus some rando character just made up for the experience. Sure the rando character can be fun and engaging with the right actor, especially in a non-IP experience, but in this case the guest is going to pick their favorite character they know more often than not.

 

[mickEblu]

@Professortango1 you want to know how you or anyone else can know they’re in the minority? If me and @Disney Irish are agreeing that is a very strong indication. Lol

 

[Disney Irish]

Not only the general public. Even if you asked people here IMO. You re adding another layer of complexity asking imagineers to come up with an engaging original character. But doesn’t make much sense to begin with because you’re dealing with one of the most popular franchises of all time with a treasure of trove of popular characters. I understand with human being characters that have Aged that will be an issue but the work around is going with popular costumed/ masked characters/ aliens/ droids. Or for example if you went with an Xwing trench run coaster you could hear Luke’s voice over the speakers.

Now I know we wouldn’t have Rex if the imagineers listened to me but imagineering is rarely a one size fits all sort of deal. Sometimes things work and they tend to work better when geniuses like George Lucas and Tony Baxter are at the helm. Also having one droid on a ride is different than a 14 acre land. Also in the original Star Tours you essentially have the most iconic scene in the whole franchise as the climax.

If it was really working the way Prof says, then why isn't Vi getting more interaction when she shows up (if she still does) rather than guests flocking around Rey, Chewie, Kylo, or the Stormtroopers. These aren't M&Gs, these are the character interactions within the land. Its like they rather interact with the characters they know.

 

[mickEblu]

If it was really working the way Prof says, then why isn't Vi getting more interaction when she shows up (if she still does) rather than guests flocking around Rey, Chewie, Kylo, or the Stormtroopers. These aren't M&Gs, these are the character interactions within the land. Its like they rather interact with the characters they know.

Agreed but I would I say execution has a lot to do with it when it comes to Vi. Compare Rex the lovable wonderfully designed robot voiced by Pee Wee Herman with Vi. I think they could come up with some lovable creature/ alien or droid mascot for the land. Vi never had a chance. With all of that said it’s probably not the smart move to base your big E ticket adventure around that character.

 

[Disney Irish]

Agreed but I would I say execution has a lot to do with it when it comes to Vi. Compare Rex the lovable wonderfully designed robot voiced by Pee Wee Herman with Vi. I think they could come up with some lovable creature/ alien or droid mascot for the land. Vi never had a chance.

No doubt, but go back to 1987, if they originally had an interaction with Rex or R2 before ST was even a thing and Rex was known I truly believe most would pick R2 over Rex.

 

[coffeefan]

Star Wars and Harry Potter are comparable. Both have deep and rich world-building that should be enough to make a land interesting and entertaining. HP used iconic locations for its lands, whereas Disney chose Batuu for whatever reason.
The characters add to the experience too, but since WWHP doesn't have M&Gs at the request of JKR, it shows that the world setting is enough of a draw if executed well.

 

[mickEblu]

No doubt, but go back to 1987, if they originally had an interaction with Rex or R2 before ST was even a thing and Rex was known I truly believe most would pick R2 over Rex.

Of course Rex is beloved because of the package deal that is Star Tours 1.0. But I think just the fact that Rex actually speaks and is funny eventually you’d find more people at the Rex meet n greets than R2D2 as the character became more and more associated with Disneyland and Star Wars lore.

 

[mickEblu]

Star Wars and Harry Potter are comparable. Both have deep and rich world-building that should be enough to make a land interesting and entertaining. HP used iconic locations for its lands, whereas Disney chose Batuu for whatever reason.
The characters add to the experience too, but since WWHP doesn't have M&Gs at the request of JKR, it shows that the world setting is enough of a draw if executed well.

It’s not for whatever reason. They went with a “green” Tatooine because they know it still needs to be a place people enjoy walking around in. 14 acre Tatooine would have been pretty one dimensional but they pribabnly could have gotten away with 1/2 Endor 1/2 Tatooine. But then of course it wouldn’t be the hyper real place they wanted it to be. I mentioned it earlier but most of the Star Wars locales aren’t pleasant places to be like Hoth or very hard to pull off in real life like Coruscant. Endor and Tatooine seem doable. Maybe Naboo but I’m not sure if they could pull off how grand it is. That to me feels like it would be the more the scale and shape of the World Showcase at Epcot with the lagoon.

 

[Professortango1]

Not only the general public. Even if you asked people here IMO. You re adding another layer of complexity asking imagineers to come up with an engaging original character. But doesn’t make much sense to begin with because you’re dealing with one of the most popular franchises of all time with a treasure of trove of popular characters. I understand with human being characters that have Aged that will be an issue but the work around is going with popular costumed/ masked characters/ aliens/ droids. Or for example if you went with an Xwing trench run coaster you could hear Luke’s voice over the speakers.

Now I know we wouldn’t have Rex if the imagineers listened to me but imagineering is rarely a one size fits all sort of deal. Sometimes things work and they tend to work better when geniuses like George Lucas and Tony Baxter are at the helm. Also having one droid on a ride is different than a 14 acre land. Also in the original Star Tours you essentially had the most iconic scene in the whole saga as the climax.

Do you think Cedar Fair came up with the characters for Ghost Town Alive? That's what hiring talent is for. In Immersive shows you typically get a costume, a role you serve in the story, and some parameters, and then you create. Its MUCH easier than trying to get someone to mimic a screen character and learn all the trivia and history. MUCH.

Also, look at it as the general public, not a Star Wars fan. They don't care about seeing Greedo, they just want to see an alien they can interact with that looks like some of the aliens in the movie. People love Chewie, but people will also love an original Wookie character with their own personality. Launch Bay in Florida has Jawas. Are they specific Jawas with their own cannon in the novels and yaddayaddayadda? No, because general guests don't care. They just want the funny little weird guys. Pig Guards, Tuskan Raiders, Boba Fett, Jabba...people like these characters because they look interesting. Its not like Disney needs to get their best Imagineers on creating an original Gamorrean character for the park that guests will want to interact with.

Guests simply want to feel like they've walked into a Star Wars story. Not a specific one, but the world of Star Wars. With strange alien creatures around each bend, exotic animals and foods, a place that feels like the wild west where you can choose the rules you want to live by; whether its being noble and good or self-serving and roguish or sinister and power hungry. You do that building a world of strangers to meet. Locales to explore. If we know the characters and know the locales, then there isn't much to discover.

 

[Professortango1]

If it was really working the way Prof says, then why isn't Vi getting more interaction when she shows up (if she still does) rather than guests flocking around Rey, Chewie, Kylo, or the Stormtroopers. These aren't M&Gs, these are the character interactions within the land. Its like they rather interact with the characters they know.

Because they haven't given her anything to do. I flock to her as much as I flock to Kylo. And I love Kylo as a character. But he doesn't really do anything other than walk around, so why would I waste my time? I can't really talk with him or interact with him. I can't do things to play in his world. He doesn't do any interesting force effect in the land. He doesn't do any stunts or set off a special effect. I can simply watch him exist. And known or unknown, that's not too exciting.

But I will give you that. If you just want to have roaming characters like Fantasyland, then yes, characters matter. Nobody is going to line up to take pictures with Baker Woman 4 in Fantasyland, they will line up to see Alice. But interaction is the goal, as it was in the original design for Batuu and what my original point was on here a page or so ago, then original characters give audiences far better experiences. This has been tested and found with a variety of test groups and studies.
We even see it with CM celebs like Maynard and the Citizens of Buena Vista Street. And once again, those don't even benefit from gameplay functions, simply guest interactions and the joy of discovery.

 

[Disney Irish]

Because they haven't given her anything to do. I flock to her as much as I flock to Kylo. And I love Kylo as a character. But he doesn't really do anything other than walk around, so why would I waste my time? I can't really talk with him or interact with him. I can't do things to play in his world. He doesn't do any interesting force effect in the land. He doesn't do any stunts or set off a special effect. I can simply watch him exist. And known or unknown, that's not too exciting.

But I will give you that. If you just want to have roaming characters like Fantasyland, then yes, characters matter. Nobody is going to line up to take pictures with Baker Woman 4 in Fantasyland, they will line up to see Alice. But interaction is the goal, as it was in the original design for Batuu and what my original point was on here a page or so ago, then original characters give audiences far better experiences. This has been tested and found with a variety of test groups and studies.
We even see it with CM celebs like Maynard and the Citizens of Buena Vista Street. And once again, those don't even benefit from gameplay functions, simply guest interactions and the joy of discovery.

Again I think you're taking your experience with non-IP experiences and what you personally want out of an interactive experience and trying to apply it to what the general public wants from a Star Wars experience. All I've said is you're in the minority here, which I honestly don't think is a bad thing, so you shouldn't take it as such.

Maybe I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, but if I said, Prof create me an interactive adventure with Han and Luke to have with guests in Batuu and hire the actors that you think could do it. I think you could come up with something very compelling and fun for the guests and find the actors that could do it. So I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't be.

 

[DrAlice]

For the record, I enjoy the land, but I'll accept that it could be so much better.

I like the land aesthetically. I think it "feels" Star Wars. I like the sounds of creatures & their footprints (rebel side) and the sounds of spaceships (first order side). I like what they did in the shops with creatures, etc. I like the creature in the water fountain. Where the land falls down is in the lack of kinetic energy. Watch any Star Wars movie or show and you see droids and creatures everywhere. Walking past planter after planter after planter filled with droids that don't move or make noise is ridiculous. They could improve the land so much if they just animated the land's set pieces that already exist.

Also, I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea to have a Star Wars land without the two biggest icons of the entire franchise: Darth Vader & the John Williams theme. I mean, come on, man.

 

[britain]

For the record, I enjoy the land, but I'll accept that it could be so much better.

I like the land aesthetically. I think it "feels" Star Wars. I like the sounds of creatures & their footprints (rebel side) and the sounds of spaceships (first order side). I like what they did in the shops with creatures, etc. I like the creature in the water fountain. Where the land falls down is in the lack of kinetic energy. Watch any Star Wars movie or show and you see droids and creatures everywhere. Walking past planter after planter after planter filled with droids that don't move or make noise is ridiculous. They could improve the land so much if they just animated the land's set pieces that already exist.

Also, I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea to have a Star Wars land without the two biggest icons of the entire franchise: Darth Vader & the John Williams theme. I mean, come on, man.

I suspect they felt they were following the Indiana Jones Adventure method of saving the thrill of Williams’ music for inside the attractions.

 

[Professortango1]

Again I think you're taking your experience with non-IP experiences and what you personally want out of an interactive experience and trying to apply it to what the general public wants from a Star Wars experience. All I've said is you're in the minority here, which I honestly don't think is a bad thing, so you shouldn't take it as such.

Maybe I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, but if I said, Prof create me an interactive adventure with Han and Luke to have with guests in Batuu and hire the actors that you think could do it. I think you could come up with something very compelling and fun for the guests and find the actors that could do it. So I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't be.

I'm not saying I couldn't. But I'm saying that the same experience I write with new immersive characters will in the end be more sustainable as well as test better across multiple demographics.

Its all about mediums. Each medium has its strengths and weaknesses. We see it with books and movies and the trouble that arises when the work doesn't translate mediums well. We theme park nerds even see it here with Movies and Themed Attraction Design. The concept that some of the best examples of art in the world of attraction design benefit more with mood and surprise than with clear storybeats and narrative.

When I am talking about Galaxy's Edge and what is missing, I am speaking to the planned immersive gameplay element that was designed into the land then axed. Immersive Theatre is an artistic medium of its own with its own strengths and weaknesses. And in that medium, time after time, people engage at a higher level and respond more positively when interactions are with immersive characters and hero characters are not directly involved in the gameplay.

The reason is pretty simple too. People want to BE Han Solo. They want to BE Luke Skywalker. They don't want to be their bat boy, there to lend a hand. With other characters looking up to us to be that character, it opens a freedom to play and interact. The satisfaction is more direct. Then, you get the cool bonus of having hero characters present to offer as rewards for gameplay. Getting to meet a respected character who is treating you as an equal thanks to your actions.

Which, I'll admit, I'd rather be OT characters than ST characters. They are better suited to themed entertainment.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm not saying I couldn't. But I'm saying that the same experience I write with new immersive characters will in the end be more sustainable as well as test better across multiple demographics.

Its all about mediums. Each medium has its strengths and weaknesses. We see it with books and movies and the trouble that arises when the work doesn't translate mediums well. We theme park nerds even see it here with Movies and Themed Attraction Design. The concept that some of the best examples of art in the world of attraction design benefit more with mood and surprise than with clear storybeats and narrative.

When I am talking about Galaxy's Edge and what is missing, I am speaking to the planned immersive gameplay element that was designed into the land then axed. Immersive Theatre is an artistic medium of its own with its own strengths and weaknesses. And in that medium, time after time, people engage at a higher level and respond more positively when interactions are with immersive characters and hero characters are not directly involved in the gameplay.

The reason is pretty simple too. People want to BE Han Solo. They want to BE Luke Skywalker. They don't want to be their bat boy, there to lend a hand. With other characters looking up to us to be that character, it opens a freedom to play and interact. The satisfaction is more direct. Then, you get the cool bonus of having hero characters present to offer as rewards for gameplay. Getting to meet a respected character who is treating you as an equal thanks to your actions.

Which, I'll admit, I'd rather be OT characters than ST characters. They are better suited to themed entertainment.

I understood from the beginning what you were talking about with the interactive experience, so didn't need it explained to me again. But I think you're overestimating the desire for people to have those experiences with newly created characters and wanting to be the "Han" or "Luke". I'm sure there are some that do, but I really don't think the GP wants that as much as you think.

Again I respect your experience in this area, but I think there is a reason why since the land opened you're the only one who I've ever seen say that want to have those interactive experiences with a new characters created just for the land rather than characters from the movies, in any forum I monitor. Plus you're the only person on the planet I've seen say they don't watch Star Wars for the characters, so I think that also plays into it here.

And while I appreciate the discussion, we're never going to see eye-to-eye on this.

 

[britain]

People want to BE Han Solo. They want to BE Luke Skywalker. They don't want to be their bat boy, there to lend a hand.

Kinda, but it’s both. They also want to SEE and BE Indiana Jones.

 

[mickEblu]

I wouldn’t word it that way. People don’t want to BE Indiana Jones (or Luke Skywalker). They want to LIVE his adventures and see the characters. But living the adventures I think comes first.

 

[Professortango1]

Kinda, but it’s both. They also want to SEE and BE Indiana Jones.

That's the beauty of reward encounters in design. You get to be the substitute in the time of adventure and celebrate with the person you admire. Typically there is a final reward scenario that involves gameplay which accomplishes the feeling of working alongside of them while also helps give the hero a reason to exit the story and allow our interactee to proceed in gameplay for future possible rewards.

 

[Consumer]

I wouldn’t word it that way. People don’t want to BE Indiana Jones (or Luke Skywalker). They want to LIVE his adventures and see the characters. But living the adventures I think comes first.

I definitely want to be Indiana Jones.

 

[SuddenStorm]

It’s not for whatever reason. They went with a “green” Tatooine because they know it still needs to be a place people enjoy walking around in. 14 acre Tatooine would have been pretty one dimensional but they pribabnly could have gotten away with 1/2 Endor 1/2 Tatooine. But then of course it wouldn’t be the hyper real place they wanted it to be. I mentioned it earlier but most of the Star Wars locales aren’t pleasant places to be like Hoth or very hard to pull off in real life like Coruscant. Endor and Tatooine seem doable. Maybe Naboo but I’m not sure if they could pull off how grand it is. That to me feels like it would be the more the scale and shape of the World Showcase at Epcot with the lagoon.

Endor was filmed at the Redwoods state park. They should have just made it based on that and put it in DCA to keep it in the spirit of California theming.