News Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge - Historical Construction/Impressions

[Mike S]

That is it in a nutshell. I like Star Wars. I guess in the 70s and 80s I was even a fan. The prequels did nothing but turn me off the series. And I wasn't a junkie on SW anyway. I always preferred Star Trek (and not simply for a family reason) and the James Bond movies and, of late, Harry Potter. When you cut through all the BS and fanboi drool, you realize that the last great SW film was the only one and it came out in 1980. And when fans start talking about 'extended universe' and 'what's canon' I tune out like I do for most baseball games except say a Game 7 of a World Series between two teams with a history of futility. It means nothing to me.

But I don't view anything as simply what is my tastes because if I did then I'd be a hypocrite since I rally against that fanboi mentality. I don't like Frozen very much. But I get that it is popular. I get that much like Star Wars was a cultural touchstone in 1977 and that the Lion King clicked with the zeitgeist of a generation in 1994, a whole generation simply is enthralled with it. So, I get why it has a place in Disney parks (that place just shouldn't be World Showcase).

At it's most basic level, you are right. Or your feelings are (and I know some SWE apologists will come in here and explain to the world that opinions are not right etc etc.). SWE at DL just doesn't feel right. Sticking it where it is going is putting a square peg in a round hole because of the huge ego of a risk averse CEO. Before you ask where SW belongs, it belongs in its own gate and Disney is a big enough slum lord in Anaheim to have more than enough land to properly create an entire universe based on George Lucas's creations.



Again, very valid concern. When SWE is built. And the Frozen/Fantasyland project is done. And Toontown is repurposed ... where does any expansion go at DL? Tiny areas like the Motorboat Cruise lagoon, maybe a major Tomorrowland rebuild that adds a second level? Or more likely and cheaply, it happens by eating up existing real estate again. What will leave next time to put in current IP?

Have you read Harry Potter yet or still only watched it?

 

[DDLand]

Except that it isn't. ... Something isn't better than nothing if that something doesn't fit and precludes all sorts of future possibilities. I kinda wish that Geyser Mountain concept for the ranch area had gone through a good 10-15 years ago because then we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

Ironically, if that had been built, we probably wouldn't ever gotten Tower of Terror at DCA. That means GotG would have never been a thing either...

They missed an opportunity there. Though I'm sure Chapek is thankful!

I don't think I understand. Arguing against expansion by saying they aren't leaving room for expansion?

Nope. It's all about precedent. If you're a Disneyland fan, you must appreciate something about Disneyland. From what it looks like, Iger isn't a fan of Disneyland. He's a fan of synergy, brands, and cool projects that make him look awesome. He is not a Disneyland fan though.

What does that mean?

It means the things we love about Disneyland are totally up for alteration, replacement, or destruction at the whim of people who don't care an iota about the parks.

What happens when the next CEO decides that Jungle Cruise is a poor use of space and should be replaced with something more marketable? That's what freaks me out.

 

[britain]

Except that it isn't. ... Something isn't better than nothing if that something doesn't fit and precludes all sorts of future possibilities. I kinda wish that Geyser Mountain concept for the ranch area had gone through a good 10-15 years ago because then we wouldn't be having this discussion now.

Yeah we would, it would just be about how Geyser Mountain would be getting a cheap overlay.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think I understand. Arguing against expansion by saying they aren't leaving room for expansion?

Arguing about using up a HUGE amount of real estate for the net gain of two attractions (unless you consider the Ranch's Goat Galaxy to be an E-Ticket like @WDWFigment and I did) with low hourly capacities versus people-eaters like Pirates, Mansion, Small World etc.

Arguing about bad decisions on expansion. And this, make no mistake, is that in spades.

 

[WDW1974]

Have you read Harry Potter yet or still only watched it?

On Book 3 ... either a very slow reader or, the reality, just haven't been able to make the time ... busy wasting it on things like Disney fan forums and all!

 

[sedati]

The great thing about Disneyland is that it always seems fully built out, and yet always manages new surprises.
Two great quotes from Walt come to mind as I read this last page:

"Disneyland is your land. And I am of course talking to you right here, right now. Screw those who come late to this party- strangers from some far off time with their own dreams, ideals, and hard facts. This isn't for them. Here age can relive fond memories of the past and youth can go screw off to Knotts, Universal, or that damned Pacific Ocean Park."

"Disneyland is completed. There's no more room to grow, nor imagination left in the world. Put a cork in it, this sucker's done."

 

[1023]

The great thing about Disneyland is that it always seems fully built out, and yet always manages new surprises.
Two great quotes from Walt come to mind as I read this last page:

"Disneyland is your land. And I am of course talking to you right here, right now. Screw those who come late to this party- strangers from some far off time with their own dreams, ideals, and hard facts. This isn't for them. Here age can relive fond memories of the past and youth can go screw off to Knotts, Universal, or that damned Pacific Ocean Park."

"Disneyland is completed. There's no more room to grow, nor imagination left in the world. Put a cork in it, this sucker's done."

??????

What?

*1023*

 

[BrianLo]

Play nicely folks!

My thoughts are well published.

 

[Ismael Flores]

I love it!

I don't think we should expect rainbow caverns. Simply having the DLRR travel by that precarious rock is enough to claim that homage is being paid.

Not only is the back of the river going to look amazing but seeing the train passing behind thunder mountain on an overhead track and all that awesome looking rockwork is really going to add to the overall feel and look of what once was just a quick way of getting from frontierland to fantasyland.

At the pace they are going I wouldn't be surprised if we get to walk thru that new backroad before the rest of the river area gets done. They are really loving fast on the barriers and theming of that part of the remodel

 

[TP2000]

Okay, I get it. It's going to be gorgeous. I don't doubt it will be stunning. Just cool it a little with my "Great Boring Wall of Green," which was genuinely one of my favorite parts of Disneyland. The loss still stings.

At least I can enjoy the Great Big Beautiful Wall of Green at the Magic Kingdom, which, by the way, never had Nature's Wonderland.

(EDIT: I try to be gracious here, but to be completely honest, THIS is about how I feel)...

Your feelings are valid. I just don't understand why so many folks put so much value into that modestly landscaped berm that really didn't hide the Mickey & Friends parking structure and/or the Banco Popular bank building on Ball Road. It was just a giant green semi-opaque wall that had very minimal themeing, very minimal "show" in the form of a dozen frozen fiberglass animals and some rickety Indians, and a whole lot of taped banjo music for the seven minutes it took to pass by on the Mark Twain and get back to some real Disneyland scenery. Or you could listen to some college guy CM on the Canoes making bad jokes about the "Pinewood Indians". (Cause they are made out of pine wood!)

I guess if you don't have a car and can't get to any of the truly legit county or state parks or any of the excellent botanical sites in SoCal, that six or seven minutes on the Mark Twain slowly passing by a thin line of trees and some ratty shrubs counts as some sort of nature experience. But I thought it was boring. Your mileage may vary.

That's when it hit me. They're adding Star Wars to Disneyland. They're changing this incredible place's very essence. There's no going back. This is permanent and will change it forever. I may sound irrational (and it is), but it just doesn't feel right. It just does not fit.

Yeah, it will change it forever. Just like adding the Matterhorn in '59 changed it forever, looming over several lands and ruining any attempt at coherent theme.

Who approved this?!? Has Walt seen this?!? He what?... Oh, never mind.

Or like adding an antiseptic New Orleans Square with singing pirates changed it forever in '66, or replacing the real culture of the Indian Village with the singing robot animal culture of Bear Country changed it in '72. Or adding a bizarrely placed museum diorama of the Grand Canyon to the railroad just after Tomorrowland and the TWA rocket changed it in '58, and then in another mind-warping and non-sensical move adding robot dinosaurs after the static diorama display in '66. Or having a dead President, who everyone knows was shot in the back in 1865, give speeches in the opera house of an American small town set forty years after his assassination. None of that makes sense thematically. But it happened, and Walt did most of it, and it's beloved by everyone. Because Walt. And that bottle of Scotch he kept in his office.

Star Wars Land will be fine. Disneyland will survive. It will actually get busier.

Despite the fact that Michael Colglazier doesn't have the cajones or the approval from HR to keep a bottle of Scotch in his office.

 

[TP2000]

Yes, because as a magna *** laude graduate of a top tier law school I am, of course, remarkably stupid.

Apparently you are also obscene.

 

[DDLand]

Or like adding an antiseptic New Orleans Square with singing pirates changed it forever in '66, or replacing the real culture of the Indian Village with the singing robot animal culture of Bear Country changed it in '72. Or adding a bizarrely placed museum diorama of the Grand Canyon to the railroad just after Tomorrowland and the TWA rocket changed it in '58, and then in another mind-warping and non-sensical move adding robot dinosaurs after the static diorama display in '66. Or having a dead President, who everyone knows was shot in the back in 1865, give speeches in the opera house of an American small town set forty years after his assassination. None of that makes sense thematically. But it happened, and Walt did most of it, and it's beloved by everyone. Because Walt. And that bottle of Scotch he kept in his office.

Star Wars Land will be fine. Disneyland will survive. It will actually get busier.

Despite the fact that Michael Colglazier doesn't have the cajones or the approval from HR to keep a bottle of Scotch in his office

You make valid points here. You also ignore a fundemental truth.

Disneyland wasn't invented day 1, it was an iterative process that led to the Disneyland we know and love.

He invented the theme park genre, and out of that comes all modern design evolution. He took disparate themes and ideas and merged them together. There's some European Amusement/theme park DNA in Disneyland. There's a little bit of American Amusment park thinking. There's strong inspiration from living history parks like that of the Henry Ford. In the end he created something distinctly different. Something that had never been done before.

He still wasn't finished though. Over the next couple years they innovated, tested, and built a huge number of concepts. If something didn't work he'd move on, and if they did he doubled down. The classic Pirates of the Carribean and New Orleans Square prove just how far they'd come from the beginning. They built an all inclusive land with themed shopping, dining, and attractions integrated in. Walt and his team had cracked the basic model Harry Potter and Cars Land would follow decades later.

He was somewhat burdened by the fact that he didn't know what it would become, but he navigated it beautifully. In the end, Disneyland has a number of quirks which you pointed out. Those are just testaments to the will of an innovative founder who constantly pushed boundaries and tried new things. It also gives it a charm that is uniquely Disneyland. No other park can ever be quite like Disneyland. It's special. It's by far the best domestic park, and probably the best park in the world (though I'll see what Sea brings to the table soon).

All without Rey, Finn, and BB-8.

I will fight you on Matterhorn though, I think its placement is a perfect complement to Sleeping Beauty's Castle. Just like a page from a storybook.

The question of whether Star Wars fits into Disneyland doesn't mean I never want things to change or be added. I never want people to ask, "what would Walt do?" That's not what any creative should ever ask. I do want creatives to ask, "what can I do that will complement what Walt did?" "How can I celebrate Disneyland's history while looking forward?" "How can I make the spirit that Disney created better?" Instead they seem to be cramming something in. That's a red flag for me. Cool transitions are nice, but that doesn't mean they justify changing the makeup of the park.

I say Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, etc. all complement the incredible achievements and are rides that are clearly in the Disney tradition.

Star Wars is different.

Jungle Cruise and Tomorrowland Subs/Monorail/Autopia are the next targets for IP locations in my view. There's only so much classic Disneyland, and when it's gone, it's gone forever.

The great thing about Disneyland is that it always seems fully built out, and yet always manages new surprises.
Two great quotes from Walt come to mind as I read this last page:

"Disneyland is your land. And I am of course talking to you right here, right now. Screw those who come late to this party- strangers from some far off time with their own dreams, ideals, and hard facts. This isn't for them. Here age can relive fond memories of the past and youth can go screw off to Knotts, Universal, or that damned Pacific Ocean Park."

"Disneyland is completed. There's no more room to grow, nor imagination left in the world. Put a cork in it, this sucker's done."

Yeah, you're so right. Disneyland isn't relevant. It's soooo old fashioned. Does anyone even go there anymore?!?

If your "dreams, ideals, and hard facts" include BB-8 and Rey, more power to you.

I do somewhat dislike that Walt quote-and I know that may sound hypocritical-because it's become synonymous with forcing things that don't fit into theme parks. It's like "see see we have this quote, so you better like it!" I also think that ignores that fact that many of the contemporary creations of his day have become cultural institutions today. I'm not against adding things, just adding things that make Disneyland less special.

 

[britain]

I'm inclined to disagree. I think it was good ol' Jonvn that said that Big Thunder was the beginning of the end of Disneyland. It was too theatrical and hurt the illusion of being in an actual old west town.

Then he went on to say Splash Mountain compounded the problem by an order of magnitude. The whole southern half of the river RUINED and feels like a 'theme park' now.

And yet for some people, it just doesn't feel like Disneyland without Big Thunder or Splash.

The day will come when guests will have a hard time imagining visiting Disneyland without any Star Wars Experience. That may be fine or tragic, but it won't be any different than what's happened before.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Isn't it all three though?

I understand your passion for this stuff. However, I don't know Iger well enough to agree that SW Land is a physical manifestation of his ego. Even if I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that one using hyperbolic language like 'damaging, ugly, uncontrollable thing' to describe the expansion doesn't help make your case stronger.

Now, not to be that guy, but can we stick to the OP's topic? There's another thread here somewhere in the DLR section where people are free to share their views on the merits of SW Land in DL.

 

[brb1006]

Yeah, I've seen some of the maps of the DHS version and they don't have nearly as much space to work with there to transition Star Wars into the rest of the park. It's going to be abrupt. Which is weird and ironic; yet another WDW park that seems strapped for space and land.

At Disneyland, all this new eye candy will dramatically improve the giant walls of overgrown trees and shrubs that have defined the back half of Frontierland for decades. All the new cliffs and waterfalls along the Rivers of America, the trestles and rocky ledges along the Disneyland Railroad trackbed, the cavern entrances into Star Wars Land, etc., etc.

It will be a dramatic theme improvement over The Great Boring Wall of Green that defined this third of the park for the past 30 years (since they shut down Nature's Wonderland in '77), where a few fiberglass animals frozen in place, a peek-a-boo look at the parking structure, and that rickety Indian Chief were big highlights.

I wish Walt Disney World's railroad would give more eye candy

 

[Phroobar]

I'm inclined to disagree. I think it was good ol' Jonvn that said that Big Thunder was the beginning of the end of Disneyland. It was too theatrical and hurt the illusion of being in an actual old west town.

Then he went on to say Splash Mountain compounded the problem by an order of magnitude. The whole southern half of the river RUINED and feels like a 'theme park' now.

And yet for some people, it just doesn't feel like Disneyland without Big Thunder or Splash.

The day will come when guests will have a hard time imagining visiting Disneyland without any Star Wars Experience. That may be fine or tragic, but it won't be any different than what's happened before.

I agree. Star Wars has been part of Disneyland for half it's history. I can't imagine Disneyland without it.

 

[Phroobar]

I wish Walt Disney World's railroad would give more eye candy

I remember it being mostly a trip through trees, swamp and backstage buildings. No eye candy at all.

 

[brb1006]

WDW and WDI don't seem to place as much care on planning and land use in the swamps. My guess is that is because of Walt's old blessing of size deal (Y'all recall when he said ''We have enough land here for all of the timeshares we can possibly dream up", right?) The Bob Iger Land IP MAGIC Park should have enough land to make for quality transitions, but I doubt you'll get them. ... And having Star Tours cut off from the SWE is bizarre because I will bet that, unlike Anaheim, ST stays open for years in the swamps.



IMPROVE?!?!?!? Where's my crazy Phil Kippel emojis? Hold on ... OK, there we go.

Some of us loved the beautiful natural rustic feel of Frontierland's back country. Don't know why, could it be because it fit so well? Despite talk of saving trees, Disney basically denuded the area of trees that in some cases dated back to the 1950s. Just hacked them to pieces. Yes, they will be improving the banks of the RoA and tossing a few nice and cheap show upgrades along the way. But I find it hard to praise them when two Star Wars attractions that don't come close to Walt-era high capacity E-Tix 50 years later is what we are getting.

And every man and woman I have talked to that works or has worked for WDI who isn't involved in the project has ripped Disney for this ... oh, and for that little Guardians of the Galaxy takeover of the Hollywood Tower Hotel. It would seem today that WDI (stateside anyway where they don't have to answer to other ownership groups or the Chinese Communist Party) has lost all ability to pitch non-IP projects or to make sure they are placed where they belong from a thematic and storytelling and cohesive standpoint.

But what do I know. John Hench, Herb Ryman and Marc Davis and Co would have loved this type of forced placement.

I feel like I'm reading your posts in an old man's voice.

 

[brb1006]

I remember it being mostly a trip through trees, swamp and backstage buildings. No eye candy at all.

Comparsion

(Walt Disney World)


(Disneyland)

 

[180º]

Your feelings are valid. I just don't understand why so many folks put so much value into that modestly landscaped berm that really didn't hide the Mickey & Friends parking structure and/or the Banco Popular bank building on Ball Road. It was just a giant green semi-opaque wall that had very minimal themeing, very minimal "show" in the form of a dozen frozen fiberglass animals and some rickety Indians, and a whole lot of taped banjo music for the seven minutes it took to pass by on the Mark Twain and get back to some real Disneyland scenery. Or you could listen to some college guy CM on the Canoes making bad jokes about the "Pinewood Indians". (Cause they are made out of pine wood!)

I guess if you don't have a car and can't get to any of the truly legit county or state parks or any of the excellent botanical sites in SoCal, that six or seven minutes on the Mark Twain slowly passing by a thin line of trees and some ratty shrubs counts as some sort of nature experience. But I thought it was boring. Your mileage may vary.

Just to clarify, the reason I liked it isn't because I'm a poor untravelled peasant and it was a makeshift nature experience or anything like that. Quite the contrary, and that may be why I was so fond of the greenery. Of course it doesn't compare to the real thing, but it has its own aesthetic value. You don't have to be ignorant to enjoy the smaller, fictional wonders of Disneyland.

In other words, I liked the slow boat ride through the trees because: Personal preference.

As for the sparseness, trees were cut down and the foliage was thinned out a few years ago, and that's how we got the views of M&F. I admit that took it down a notch, but it wasn't always like that. In any case, I'll still miss it.

Here's my last photo of my beloved Great Big Boring Wall of Green, taken during a rainstorm just before the river closed for construction: